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#1126 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri III - The next round. » 2005-03-24 15:08:54
Frankly, I hope Jeb Bush does send in the marshalls and for the next 12 months we have a continuing public forum on how the brain stem works and whether this poor woman's cerebral cortex has utterly withered away.
I also think this case could make great precedent for the idea that state governments owe a duty to keep people alive. Universal public medical care is a great idea. If the state "should" keep Terri alive, there are thousands or millions of other people who are lucid, and can talk, but lack money for medical care.
As for the polls, in my opinion, most people believe she is already "dead" in every meaningful sense. That is why they answer the polls they way they do.
But lets give her one more chance. Jeb Bush should intervene and then we can have neurologists and other doctors appear on every talk show imaginable and we can decide whether is she really alive or not.
= = =
PS - - A movement is developing to send Bill Frist photos and videos to request that he diagnose various other conditions, since he is so talented at video medicine.
"Dear Senator Frist, here is a photo of my mole. Is it cancer?"
= = =
PPS - The silence of all the other "usual suspects" is deafening.
#1127 Re: Not So Free Chat » Corporal Punishment on Mars - Should it be Permitted or Not? » 2005-03-24 07:32:04
It's so easy to take the worse of men misconduct to preach for capital punishment, neglecting the fact that murderers and rapists are always somehow mad peoples at the moment of their crimes, no matter their are clever or not.
Why would you suggest this? Rape has a long history in natural biological evolution. Big apes do it all the time, and big apes among humans do it as well. It's not a sign of illness, it's a sign of strength, the acting out of a primitive mind, power being abused in a voluntarily manner against the defenceless because the perpetrator is able to. It's an act of the will. It's natural.
Punishment should be metered out to serve two functions, settling the scales (as Cobra puts it), you can call this revenge or restoration of honour if you like, and as a cleansing of the social body. On a deeper level, these two are actually intertwined. In the end, civilisation is nothing but power used to protect the community against power used to destroy it. Believing it could try for "rehabilitation" on the other hand is pure hubris, in my opinion (which coincidentally might well be suspected of hiding a sociopathic disregard for the victim - I have come to believe this in fact is a typical trait of the left. They always side with the predator).
As for the soul of the criminal, I can only leave that to the Allmighty. Our responsibility is (or rather should be) to the victim. That this isn't so in our western legal systems is simply a disgrace.
P.S: Some sort of abortion must be allowed in any case. I wouldn't want to force a woman to bear the child of a rapist.
The State must always guard against allowing its processes to be subverted towards those same natural brutish ends you describe.
If blacks are executed by lethal injection at five times the rate of whites, perhaps the "big age" you speak of has been clever enough to clothe himself in a uniform.
And some on the "Left" merely seek to resist the "big ape" who has falsely clothed himself in the colors of the State.
= = =
I agree with this:
In the end, civilisation is nothing but power used to protect the community against power used to destroy it.
And we must also beware wolves in sheep's clothing. :;):
Edited By BWhite on 1111671273
#1128 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Who Governs Mars? - Corporate Warlords vs. Commonwealth » 2005-03-24 07:26:55
Isn't it amusing?
How people with grand plans like these, be them neocommie utopians or free market evangelicals, always seem to reason that at least their solution is freed from the oppression of "nation states", while in reality nations are one of the few things for which ordinary people will act voluntarily out of love or duty.
Nation states are also essential to marshall the resources needed to accomplish such plans. Or perhaps large churches.
Some might prefer the nation-state; and
Many of these utopian planners actually intend to found a new Church, if you cut through the hyperbole.
= = =
Edit to addd: Yup. Its amusing. 
Edited By BWhite on 1111670867
#1129 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Who Governs Mars? - Corporate Warlords vs. Commonwealth » 2005-03-24 07:23:54
Mars as an Independent World with a killer national Debt.
Declare independence. Enact bankruptcy laws. Debt discharged. Build space navy. End of problem.
= ==
Oooops. Build space navy should be item #1
#1130 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Soyuz at Kouru - How much more mass to LEo? » 2005-03-23 22:22:54
Progress at Kouru would seem to render the ESA http://www.astronautix.com/craft/esahicle.htm]ATV virtually obsolete from a price competition point of view.
3K - 5K kg for $25 million (Progress)
7.5K kg for $170 million (ATV + Ariane)
= = =
http://www.esrin.esa.it/export/SPECIALS … 0.html]ESA ATV appears to have other uses, greater waste disposal and ISS boost capability but an Ariane V is still waaay more expensive than an R-7.
= = =
Although the concept of a space tug or transfer vehicle for moving astronauts and equipment to different Earth orbits has been envisioned for decades by different space agencies, the European built ATV will be the most powerful space tug ever built. If required in future programmes, the ATV could also evolve to be used as a transfer vehicle carrying tonnes of supplies to the Moon orbit and beyond.
Edited By BWhite on 1111638578
#1131 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Soyuz at Kouru - How much more mass to LEo? » 2005-03-23 22:11:19
http://en.rian.ru/rian/index.cfm?prd_id … ert=0]This article asserts that cargo can be increased by 2 to 3 times over Soyuz (Progress?) launched from Baikanur.
Kourou's proximity to the equator will allow carriers to take two or three times more freight than their counterparts lifting off from the Baikonur space center in Kazakhstan (a rent agreement for it was signed in 1994 for twenty years and costs Russia $115 million a year). A single Soyuz launch will enable Russia to save up to $60 million.
Is this cargo carried along with 3 cosmonauts (if so, then not that big a deal) or is the Progress payload doubled or tripled? I did not think the equatorial leverage was that great.
Why isn't Ariane a much better value than it actually is, for this same reason?
= = =
Looks like cargo only.
Experts predict hard times ahead for Baikonur, as the number of launches there will decrease. However, it would be impracticable to launch manned space flights from Kourou, because it does not have the available ranges for rescue operations in an emergency.
Okay, take a standard Progress and increase payload by 250% (splitting the 2x to 3x) - - what is the per pound to LEO work out to be?
Edited By BWhite on 1111637640
#1132 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri III - The next round. » 2005-03-23 15:41:39
Like I said, put the tube back in. If she dies on Good Friday, we will be having a civil war by Easter.
Put the feeding tube in then let a thousand scientists study her brain.
= = =
Would anyone describe Terri Schiavo as lucid?
Tom Delay http://www.time.com/time/nation/article … 0.html]did!
Edited By BWhite on 1111623623
#1133 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri III - The next round. » 2005-03-23 14:29:26
Okay, I have changed my mind.
Let's put back the feeding tube and have a trial on whether that poor woman's cerebral cortex has turned to fluid. Whether there is any brain function beyond the brain stem.
Frankly, I now believe a televised trial concerning all of the medical science relating to her condition would be very beneficial for all of us.
#1134 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri III - The next round. » 2005-03-22 20:15:02
Another good non-sensationalist source of information on the Schiavo case is here:
http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infop … opage.html
There are no villians in this story.
The facts of this case are terribly sad, but they are not hard to understand. There's really nothing to be confused about, and as best I can tell, nothing's been overlooked by anyone. Terri's situation has arguably received more judicial attention, more medical attention, more executive attention, and more "due process," than any other guardianship case in history. Terri's family has had the benefit of excellent legal representation as well as the Governor's own top-notch attorneys, all of whom have scoured the case for ways to assist the effort to keep Terri's feeding tube in place.
Edited By BWhite on 1111544138
#1135 Re: Not So Free Chat » Corporal Punishment on Mars - Should it be Permitted or Not? » 2005-03-22 20:10:41
Surgical abortion is barbaric and should be avoided entirely. Its too bad many in America vigorously oppose good education on contraception.
#1136 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri III - The next round. » 2005-03-22 19:30:02
I have not read this http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/Wolfs … t.pdf]full report but it was written by a doctor appointed by Governor Jeb Bush to investigate the Schiavo case and apparently is an official government document. (Perhaps he is a PhD)
More comments as I find time to read it.
= = =
The report is very thorough and very professional. There has been no rush to judgment here and no one has been denied the opportunity to present their position (except Terri)
One comment: Jay Wolfson, selected by Jeb Bush to prepare a report for the Florida governor, explicitly rejects any allegation that Michael Schiavo has been acting for financial motivation.
7 or 8 years ago - - before all the money was exhausted on medical care - - he offered to sign away what money remained so any allegation that he was after the money could be satisfied. No money remains today.
= = =
What should be done?
The hell if I know. ??? I do not know what is best.
However, Michael Schiavo does appear to be the victim of a continuing smear campaign.
Edited By BWhite on 1111542691
#1137 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri III - The next round. » 2005-03-22 13:56:05
Is being in a "persistent vegetative state" the same as being dead? Reasonable people can differ, in my opinion.
Who decides if Terri Schiavo is in a "persistent vegetative state" or PVS?
No good will come from this case no matter what the final result.
#1138 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri III - The next round. » 2005-03-22 12:11:42
Look at this link:
http://www.dharmageek.com/cnnpoll1.jpg] … npoll1.jpg
![http://www.dharmageek.com/cnnpoll1.jpg] … npoll1.jpg](http://www.dharmageek.com/cnnpoll1.jpg]http://www.dharmageek.com/cnnpoll1.jpg){kind=link}
Does that "look like" 62% versus 54% or does that "look like" Democrats are heartless monsters?
The propaganga war swirls full force. . .
#1139 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri III - The next round. » 2005-03-22 11:52:52
Which seems entirely plausible. I know my wife and I have discussed such things in the past and have both made our desire emphatically clear to each other and immediate family. However there is no doubt in my mind that if it were one of us there would be family members resisting. He may have other motives, might be a complete scumbag. But he might also be trying to carry out her expressed wishes despite the opposition of her parents who can't let go. Until some specific information indicating shady motives surfaces I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
I agree 200%.
Being a lawyer who writes living wills and handles probate cases I can assure you judges would be very reluctant to "kill Terri" if there were credible evidence her husband was a total scumbag and was just after the money.
Every judge I have ever appeared before is very well aware that when people say "its not about the money, its about the money." Her parents were given countless opportunities to raise the issues Cindy raises.
As I recall, there once was life insurance but the policy was cashed in to pay for her care. Now that it is gone, there is no more money for Michael to get.
= = =
And =IF= its GOP grandstanding, I am content.
Once again the dog actually caught the truck. One poll said 70% of respondents said it was inappropriate for Congress and the President to get involved.
= = =
From the WaPo article linked above:
Medical experts said those behaviors are the cruelest aspect of a terrible condition: Grimaces and other facial expressions give families of tens of thousands of such patients hope, but they are evidence only that Schiavo's brain stem is working, keeping alive reflexes and routine bodily functions. They do not suggest that the higher areas of brain functioning needed for her to regain conscious awareness will return, experts said.
"It's uncanny but misleading," said William Winslade, who has studied how to distinguish patients in a persistent vegetative state from those suffering from other conditions at the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston. "Family members . . . will interpret random eye movements as something is happening. That has to be the case with Terri Schiavo. A truckload of physicians have concluded she is in a persistent vegetative state."
Edited By BWhite on 1111514754
#1140 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri III - The next round. » 2005-03-22 11:00:06
The parents have sought a divorce, which was denied.
The http://blog.bioethics.net/2005/03/have- … ]Religious Right has spent millions and millions of dollars to make Shiavo a test case and like vampires (IMHO) have feasted on the parents all too natural desire not to accept the death of their daughter.
#1141 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri III - The next round. » 2005-03-22 10:45:52
Cindy, I cannot read his mind.
What he says is that he loves/loved her and he knows in his heart she would be horrified at being a vegetable. He says they discussed this after the lingering death of an elderly relative and she expressed (to him) horror at such circumstances.
Her parents say she never said that. (But they were not there)
= = =
Remember, the State of Florida is paying for her care. The taxpayers. Since I support universal health care, I have no objection to that.
But might the parents be seeking attention and public sympathy as martyrs since their legal fees are being paid by right-to-life donors and future medical care for their daughter will be paid 100% by the taxpayers?
A refusal to "let go" of a deceased person is very natural and deserves our synpathy, but how much sympathy?
= = =
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar … html]Great article, IMHO, as a lawyer.
Edited By BWhite on 1111510154
#1142 Re: Human missions » Zubrin on Moon, then Mars - Three essays, one link » 2005-03-22 10:35:42
Again, I like Zubrin's CEV "lunar cab" idea.
Design a versatile lander that can be mated with CEV or an ISPP plant or a supply module.
Mate CEV to the cab before stacking on top the 50MT EELV-Super and dock with TLI stage in LEO for a 100 MT mission using two launches.
Mate the cab with an ISPP plant and dock with TLI stage in LEO and deliver an ISPP plant with the same hardware and two launches.
Mate the cab with a cargo module to deliver supplies to the lunar surface. Use the cargo module to carry LOX (or PGMs) from the lunar surface.
Before ISPP LOX becomes available, send the cab/CEV combo with 2 30MT medium TLI modules. Okay, its three launches to accomodate EELV w/o ISPP.
But that creates incentive to start ISPP, ASAP.
LOR will delay ISPP because human inertia will resist throwing away the LOR architecture hardware. A universal cab can be desiged once and used in a variety of roles. A disposable pressurized lander will become obsolete once true DR missions become feasible and we will need new hardware to move beyond the initial scout missions.
Edited By BWhite on 1111514398
#1143 Re: Human missions » Zubrin on Moon, then Mars - Three essays, one link » 2005-03-22 10:30:14
Ah, the narcissim of petty differences.
Whilst we argue this, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson (Republican of Texas) is talking about keeping the orbiter flying until CEV is operational. Of course, spending money on orbiter will only delay CEV which requires further extension of orbiter. ???
EELV and SDV need not be decided now, because nothing final will be done until after President Bush leaves office.
A 50MT EELV-super has potential, that I will concede.
However, a commitment to ISPP and ISRU as soon as possible - - not a "wouldn't it be nice, someday. . ." - - attitude is essential for my support of the VSE, along with a shared consensus that Moon-Mars is one word, not two.
Otherwise, its back to Moon versus Mars and the circled up firing squads!
#1144 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri III - The next round. » 2005-03-22 10:20:50
Cindy, step one would be to remove the husband as guardian.
Apparently the family tried several times to have him removed as guardian however the courts never agreed. His position has always been that the poor woman died 15 years ago. Her mind, her soul, left the body 15 years ago.
=IF= it is true that she died 15 years ago, there is nothing wrong with starting a new family. Christian wedding vows traditionaly say until death do us part. My sister-in-law asked to modify her vows to extend beyond death and the priest refused.
Mormon views on this are fascinating, to be Spock-like. :;):
= = =
Grandstanding by GOP polititians starts us down a slippery slope towards a http://www.juancole.com/2005/03/schiavo … theocratic society.
The cynical use by the US Republican Party of the Terri Schiavo case repeats, whether deliberately or accidentally, the tactics of Muslim fundamentalists and theocrats in places like Egypt and Pakistan. These tactics involve a disturbing tendency to make private, intimate decisions matters of public interest and then to bring the courts and the legislature to bear on them. President George W. Bush and Republican congressional leaders like Tom Delay have taken us one step closer to theocracy on the Muslim Brotherhood model.
Edited By BWhite on 1111508517
#1145 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri III - The next round. » 2005-03-22 07:26:06
20 judges (more or less) now 1 more - - seem content that "there is nothing going on" upstairs.
I cannot believe that if there were any medical signs of her not being in a persistent vegetative state that at least one of the judges would have ruled against the husband and in favor of the parents.
= = =
Obviously, I have no personal knowledge. But it appears not one judge has taken the parents side despite the emotional attraction to do so.
Edited By BWhite on 1111498095
#1146 Re: Human missions » The Lunar Folly - NASA Scientists give their reasons. » 2005-03-22 07:24:27
So the need for colonization can only occur if the private sector can get into the act and pushes for it to occur once the trail runs of Mars testing gets under way on the moon.
There is no need for colonization.
If there is no colonization, there is no need for a manned space program.
#1147 Re: Human missions » Zubrin on Moon, then Mars - Three essays, one link » 2005-03-22 07:22:55
Anyway, with Mars being 25 years away give or take, that would be plenty of time to build a new rocket that is best suited to the task, instead of trying to jerry-rig the antique Shuttle program to kinda-sorrta suffice. In the mean time, we ought to go with the best option for the Moon and only the Moon, which until I hear credible cost estimates for SDV, would be EELV+.
Stop saying stuff like this or I rejoin Michael Bloxham. :;):
If Moon-Mars isn't ONE WORD, if its Moon now and Mars, well someday far away, I might very well join the "robots only" people. Or start screaming "Emperor's New Space Program"
Also, ISRU must not be for lunar mission #6 or #7. ISRU and ISPP must be employed from the beginning, or I return to chanting "Emperor's New Space Program" - - and the equipment used for the Moon MUST be designed for a logical progression to Mars capable gear.
If it is Moon now and we design new stuff in 25 years, then I will OPPOSE the effort with extreme vigor.
Also 50MT EELV are a condition precedent and MUST be deployed for the VERY FIRST lunar mission, at $200 million per launch.
If payload creeps down to 45MT or 42MT and the price creeps up to $210 million or $225 million, then its time to put some Boeing executive in JAIL if these promises induce cancellation of SDV!
= = =
Before SDV is off the table, Boeing needs to PROVE they can deploy large quantities of 50MT Deltas for a guaranteed price of $200 million or less.
Otherwise, IMHO, no deal.
#1148 Re: Human missions » Zubrin on Moon, then Mars - Three essays, one link » 2005-03-21 16:47:08
Is Zubrin wrong about this:
Developing a Lunar base will also require delivering substantial cargo one-way to the Lunar surface. Here the DR scenario has a large advantage over LOR, since it can use the same large standard lander to deliver substantial habitat modules or other large cargo elements to the surface as it employs to deliver the fully-fueled CEV.
In the 2nd essay Zubrin proposes a landing "cab" to carry the CEV to the lunar surface and back up for return to Earth. Launch the entire thing on a single HLLV shot. Using ISPP, 70MT is said to be sufficient.
Zubrin asserts that a DR mission architecture allows triple the cargo to be delivered to the luanr surface.
Argument? Show your work. :;):
= = =
If EELV-only LOR missions are intended as "scout missions" and precursors to future DR missions, why the intermediate step?
Edited By BWhite on 1111445300
#1149 Re: Human missions » Zubrin on Moon, then Mars - Three essays, one link » 2005-03-21 16:09:28
Zubrin's QQ argument fails =IF= we deploy 45-50MT EELV for the very first lunar mission. Then only two launches are required followed by a lunar orbit rendevouz (LOR) mission.
But at 45MT, the lander plus TLI stage starts entering the realm of "chop off the toothbrush handles" - - not a good thing, right?
Therefore, immediate deployment of the "tricked out" EELV should be a condition precedent to choosing EELV over SDV. And if "tricked out" means 43.5 MT, then its too small.
= = =
And Zubrin remains correct that having an astronaut babysit the CEV in LLO is wasteful.
= = =
A larger lander could be used if 3 launches were employed but do we have payload fairing issues for larger landers?
Edited By BWhite on 1111443347
#1150 Re: Human missions » Zubrin on Moon, then Mars - Three essays, one link » 2005-03-21 15:48:18
Has either Pad 39A or Pad 39B gone out of service? Boeing has one pad in Florida SLC 37 and one at Vandenberg, correct?
But Vandenberg can only launch to high inclination and retrograde (towards the west) correct? Range safety issues?
= = =
Obviously I lack access to massive amounts of data NASA will have available. Based on my limited access to material, the idea of a Delta IV Medium (1 barrel plus small solids) for CEV does make sense.
CEV alone is not sufficient for a lunar mission. You need CEV plus a TLI stage. Then you need a lander plus TLI stage.
How much fuel does a lander need? Lander plus TLI plus lander fuel (down and up) would seem to press the 45-50MT totals rather quickly. And using disposable architecture, we throw it all away come 2025.
Unless we go with the 45-50MT "tricked out" version of Delta IV from the very beginning, we will need at least 4 launches per lunar mission.
= = =
Edit:
Two Delta IV super plus can place a smallish disposable lander in the Moon, right? With one super plus for CEV and TLI and the other for the lander and TLI and lunar descent/ascent how do we land materials for any permanent presence?
How fast can Pad 37 cycle?
("Super plus" equals the 45-50 MT variant which strikes me as absolutely necessary for EELV to make any sense at all)
= = =
How do we scale up to a larger lunar lander if we use EELV?
Edited By BWhite on 1111442124