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I think my point was that this objects if it were alien would be a stupid thing for a sneaky alien civilization to do in a Dark Forest galaxy.

Sneaky would be to arrange for brilliant minds to discover things that were to lead to AI and Robots.  That might imply that they have a few agents among us already.  Perhaps software agents that they somehow infected our system with.

If they had to risk some sort of spaceflight where their ships might be observed the might arrange to meddle with humans on occasion to create red herrings.  For instance, practicing proctology on humans so that the humans would report silly stories.  That would help to discredit actual situations where they accidentally revealed themselves.

A slow boiled frog situation would have them direct the direction of our culture to suit their desires.  Slowly robots and AI would be more and more important on Earth and perhaps the solar system. 

Over time the existence of cultures similar to the one they caused us to develop might be revealed.  But in reality, that could be just a story we were told, they might give us a cleaned-up view of what they really were.  They might be partially robotic and partly organic and might consist of many types of organic on various worlds.  The entities that we supposedly see, may be of our DNA, because they collected it in the past and created organic robots that they could use in interacting with Earth.

In a Dark Forest this might be how they make sure that we will not be taken over by their predatory competitors.

Also with the notion of a "Random Walk", it may be that they will get some type of discovery by interacting with us.

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Isaac Arthur has speculated that Civilizations will not want to send out colonies to other stars as those colonies might mutate into a hostile alien competitor.

A twist on that could be the Polynesian one.  They plant baby civilizations on various worlds, perhaps even using local "DNA" if that is the nature of the organism.   In order to keep the threat in control of these transplants they check up on them periodically and Wack them if they see more progress than they want.

This would be like a dead man switch.  If their core culture was still capable of monitoring us, then they would knock us flat periodically.  If they have fallen and cannot Wack us then one or more of their "Children" rise to power as a new civilization.

An evidence that we had progressed more than expected would be signs of activity on Mars, Venus, and the Moons of Jupiter.  That might indicate that they would not only have to Wack Earth but wipe out whatever we had place on Mars or around Venus or on the Moons of Jupiter.

I suppose that the good news is that they would probably limit the amount of destruction they inflicted on Earth.  And they might have to send agents of some kind to help make sure we fell into dark ages.

It is hard to say if any alien would think this is a good idea.  How would we know?  I guess the best we could do is think outside of what normal humans might think.

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I do not expect that the object is hollow, but I suppose there is a small chance.  If it is, then they are not going to be Suttle, but will decide how much to Wack us, and have the confidence that they can make us superstitious of things in the sky, and degrade our "Civilization" in a desirable measure.

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But if it is a giant rock, then the aliens most likely are not behind it.  It would be overkill.

And that would mean that there may be much more baryonic matter between the stars than we have thought.

That would make going between stars harder as small impactors may be everywhere.  But it would also perhaps allow us to island hop on rogue worlds that we are not yet able to detect.

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So, it is exciting.  If it is aliens and they want to set us back, I don't think it is likely that we could resist the process very well.

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This is a long video and you may have seen it before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHdUMDV … ithHerbert
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In previous posts here, I have begun to involve "Torrefaction" with electric sources of energy to convert organic materials to Biochar and also Hydrogen, Methane, and Tar.

I would like to appeal to what I consider rational thinking.  At least from my point of view.

Now is it silly to let Northern Forests burn down because they were not managed or not?  I pollute air above the North American Continent.

Many of these are Canadian, and much of land that may go feral if Tony Seba is correct.  So, eventually we in America will have problems with forest fires where farm land used to be.  Unless the land is groomed.

Take a look at it do you want forests to burn down putting particle pollution into the air and also putting CO2 into the Air?  Does that make sense?  Canada says it wants to go green, but they let their forests burn, and put lots of CO2 into the Atmosphere.  And the USA will be in a similar situation if indeed, we allow a lot of farmlands to go feral.

The products of "Torrefaction" will yield Hydrogen and Methane which can be used in Precision Fermentation and also likely in Cellular Farming.  So, this will be a form of farming that will not so much depend on growing seasons.

The concept of Pleistocene Park hope to hold back the excessive thawing of permafrost in the north.  This may apply to our state of Alaska also.  https://pleistocenepark.ru/

The use of some animals and robots may allow a certain percentage of the Taiga: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiga
Could be converted back to Mammoth Steppe, to provide fire brakes and to reduce the thawing of permafrost.  The weeds and brush could be processed by Torrefaction to produce wealth and to reduce the release of CO2 into the atmosphere.  This would also be firebrakes.

America could have migrating robots to do this, possibly Canada would do it as well.

While Bison may be destructive to Solar Panels, and equipment I am tempted to consider processing Buffalo Chips.  Possibly a risk of stinky, but with good technology that perhaps could be avoided.

Lets say people in the North might burn 1/2 of the Charcoal produced in the less sunny months and put the other 1/2 into bogs and in the soils.

Robots would migrate north and south following the seasons.

The problem between the USA and Canada just now is from my point of view, a north culture that does not respect the individual.  Also, the USA culture has been "Sinning" against the American spirit for some time, but I think we are in reform under the "Orange Man".

So the compatibility of Canada and the USA is in question as I do not trust the efforts by global elites to replace Americans and to try to make us into surfs.  I think Canada is held more strongly in bondage by them than the USA is.

My current notions.  Everyone has notions.

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Continuing on similar lines to the previous post:
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE
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I think this can be solved by combining both sources of rogue planets.  Ejection and Collapse.

Ejected objects in a stellar nursery or thick dust cloud could have a secondary condensation.  They might also condense moons around them from something resembling a Oort Cloud or Kuiper belt.

Probably easier for ejections in a star nursery, to have a secondary accretion within that nursery, but I would not rule out a rouge planet drifting into a thick cloud and then having an additional accretion event.

This then might create something I want very much.  A Super Earth with its own moons, as a rogue too cool to see with our current technology.

If we could find these, and particularly if nearby, then good things could be done, in my opinion.
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So, the Super Earth could have a rocky surface, or an icy surface or a liquid water surface.  It would have significant Geo heat.  It might have winds.  The atmosphere might be crushing, but even so with any type of surface, it might be possible to establish energy harvesting, and the energy could be beamed to a moon, which hopefully would exist.

Robots on the Super Earth even if physically stranded could beam their minds up and down from the moon or moons.
Humans might likely only live on the moons or in orbit, but they also could have telepresence on the surface of the Super Earth.  Ideally one or more moon would not have completely differentiated so that rocky materials would be available.

If it turns out that fusion becomes an economic form of energy, then the vast atmosphere of the Super Earth could supply fusion fuels, and again energy to be beamed up to the moons.  (I hope a thick atmosphere would not block that).

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Just some stuff about batteries.

https://www.helleniscope.com/2025/07/12 … thium-era/  Quote:

Other Contenders:

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE  Quote:

Seems hopeful.

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It has emerged slowly in my mind that indeed Charcoal production could substitute for the Coal needed to make solar panels.
https://www.missionnewenergy.com/solar- … hout-coal/
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A new term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrefaction
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So, in using "Superpower" for Torrefaction, in a brick oven, wood chips and perhaps logs, and weeds can be converted to various products.  Obviously it is not desired to create Methane in the atmosphere or particulate pollution.

Combustible gasses could be immediately burned, perhaps in an Ice Engine.  And pollution control would be very desired.

Although not generally considered an excellent way to store solar energy, then charcoal is also a possible way to have energy from solar sources when direct sunlight and electric storage are not enough.

The Brick ovens may be used to heat buildings in the winter and also hot water around the year, I presume.

But otherwise it could be used to make solar panels, or it could be added to soils, or injected deeper in deep soils, or added to bogs.

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So, this is something like what I am thinking:

I am showing log sections being pushed into a solar heated brick oven.  This then to generate Biochar, and combustible gasses.

Of course chipped scrap wood or bundled weeds might be a different shaped chamber.

Where usually you want dry lumber, in this case wet will be just fine and with the bark on.

The brick oven being originally heated with solar power, will not directly combust wood, but will produce biochar and combustible gasses.

The Oven should be able to be heated with Superpower whenever convenient.  But it is hoped that when a lack of solar energy exists, and otherwise, the repeated injection of Aspin wood and weeds, could generate enough extra exhaust gasses to run an internal combustion engine, it may be possible to keep the oven warm with the electricity generated.

At times heat from the oven might be used also to heat other things such as habitat or hot water.

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OK, supposing we discover that indeed we need to extract large amounts of CO2 from the atmosphere.  First of all it is not likely that most countries will do this unless bad consequences are evident of a sufficient magnitude to prompt it to be done.

I have suggested that some soils could be upgraded by including biochar into them.

But for a massive storage scheme, adding biochar to existing bogs, or even creating new bogs might be a path forward.

This would leave the Carbon available in case the situation changed, such as an Ice Age or some type of technological change. 

Bogs can catch on fire if they dry out so you would want to make sure that sufficient water would exist to prevent that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog

So, a bog keeps most Oxygen away from organic materials, and I think that biochar could be stored in them.  This would still allow biological activity on top of the bog.

So, if you had dairy land that had gone feral, you could create biochar, and stuff it into existing bogs or created ones.  But as I said you have to have a good water supply to make sure it stays wet.

Should you make Biochar by heating it in a electric brick oven as I have suggested the process would shed lighter Hydrocarbons, which might be burned in an Ice engine.  But I won't like there is a possibility of air pollution if it is not done correctly.  Things like Tar might be created as well.

I suppose that saltwater bogs could be created if you were near a body of salt water.

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Isaac Arthur gives another view on what the future of the Moon could be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw6uEK5 … saacArthur  Quote:

I like it but he does not include speculation of Lava Tubes.

But that is fine, I am sure there will be a vast amount of ideas that will get tried on the Moon.  Some will work out well, some not as well.

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo … r-AA1L5g8t  Quote:

Another affirmation of good (80%) glacier ice in many places on Mars.

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Thinking on rogue objects, dust clouds, and Oort Clouds.

Our terminology is actually rather strange.  We call things that orbit something we call stars "Planets".
Objects that orbit planets, we call "Moons".

However, if we wanted to we might call the Universe the primary object, and Galaxies be called Secondary.

We might call things that orbit the Galaxy center Tertiary objects.  This would include Stars, Black Holes, White Dwarfs, Brown Dwarfs, and Rogue Planets.  But any of these Tertiary objects would be the Fourth level.  Earth would be Fourth Level.  Our Moon would be Fifth Level.  And any satellites of a Fifth Level object would be Sixth Level.

And I guess I don't know where to place Trojan Objects.

Really every object in the Universe is Rogue.  But we reserve Rogue for two types of objects.

1) Ejected Objects.
2) Condensed Objects smaller than a Brown Dwarf.  However, how small is the smallest brown dwarf?

As far as I can tell, vast amounts of gas, much of it Hydrogen, somehow are conducted into our galaxy.  Some larger objects can accrete it if they have enough gravity and do not shine so bright and have a solar wind that will push it away.

Stars that explode and objects that collide create dust clouds of materials cooked up in objects that have processed Hydrogen and Helium using fusion.

I think it is very hard for our sun to accrete materials such as dust from outside the solar system as sunlight and the solar wind will push it away.  It could accrete a interstellar comet or larger object, if that object collided with the sun.

But it seems that interstellar dust clouds can overcome the repulsive forces of the sun, Photons and the Solar wind, and intrude even on the Earth at times.

https://www.universetoday.com/articles/ … lar-clouds  Quote:

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So, if this is true, then objects such as the Earth and in higher orbits of the sun from the Earth could accrete Dust and even Hydrogen and Helium, if their gravity is large enough and any magnetic field does not interfere.  (I don't know what goes on with magnetic fields in this event).

It is possible that objects equal to and larger than Mars could accrete both dust and Hydrogen, and Helium, particularly if they are further out in the colder reaches of the solar system.  If Mars collected Hydrogen and Helium, I think it would lose it quickly because of the Sun's Photons.

But in the Kuiper Belt and Oort Cloud, objects equal to or greater than Mars in Mass might accrete both dust and gasses.  Objects smaller than Mars might accrete dust and condensed ices.

I see a possibility here that a world like Eris could accrete new radioactive fission fuels from dust clouds:
https://www.swri.org/newsroom/press-rel … rf-planets
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So, I speculate that these worlds could periodically accrete more radioactive materials that might come from star explosions, and maybe from object collisions.

There is some thinking that Europa has plate tectonics in its ice shell: https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/scientist … on-europa/  Quote:

So, I speculate that Eris may have an ocean and ice plate tectonics, that would allow further accretions of interstellar dust to be conducted to the bottom of such an ocean, and so it speculate that such worlds may be powered by the energy compressed into radioactive substances by exploding stars.

And I suppose I might speculate that a world with an ice-covered ocean with plate tectonics might also host rock tectonics below that allowing radioactive materials to accrete into the core of the object.

https://eos.org/articles/dwarf-planets- … c-activity
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So, I think over time there have been repeated surprises when worlds are examined and expected to be very cold but show evidence of greater internal warmth.

So, now I have to ask about worlds around Brown Dwarfs and Jumbo's.  These are thought to be condensed, and not usually ejected from the domain of other stars.

Can they have planets, a Kuiper Belt, and an Oort Cloud?

Could they have planets that would be as big or bigger than Eris?  Would those worlds perhaps be able to periodically accrete dust from interstellar clouds, dust with radioactive content?

Could they support worlds with oceans and some type of tectonics?

If so, then I would call these objects "Fuzzy".  If I can presume that they have lots of comets.  They would only have radiated heat for a relatively short time to drive the snow line outward.  Perhaps they are full of comets, and Dwarf Planets, and maybe even Steppenwolf planets orbiting them.

Being "Fluffy", I would wonder about the merger of a Jumbo planets Oort Cloud (If it has one), with the Oort Cloud of our solar system.  Would this represent a sort of collision of Hill Spheres, with exchange of objects?

One view of how Triton could have been captured by Neptune is that it may have had a partner object, and that partner was either absorbed by Neptune or that partner object was cast away, allowing Neptune to capture Titan.  So, that was a sort of "Fluffy" capture.

Could a Hill Sphere capture a larger object in the event of a "Fluffy" collision, while the major object would get cast away.

For instance if a Jumbo resembling and oversized Jupiter, have a "Fluffy" interaction with our solar system and perhaps leave a moon, or take some comets, or maybe even a Dwarf Planet?

Anyway, I got that out of my head.  Perhaps I can do other things now.

Smile.

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I think that unless fusion rocket propulsion proves better, a sensible thing might be to add a 3rd stage to Starship, and to also utilize electric rocket propulsion to communicate mass between LEO and Earth Geosynchronous Orbit.  And there could be very large platforms up there even eventually a ring.  The large platforms could be in part made from Starships.

That is one possible path.

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I think that he is correct that we should be thinking about what to do if we are contacted.

If it were an alien probe, it certainly would not be a stealthy way to take control of the solar system.  However, if the galaxy is in a "Dark Forest", situation, they might try to discover if we would be friend or foe.  Being obvious, but not sending out radio signals that predator aliens could detect.

A true predator would very likely give us technology such as AI and Robots, without exposing themselves, then at some point seize control of our AI and Robots.  They might do a silly display of UFO's and stuff in such a way as to discredit those making claims of Aliens.  Sort of a hidden trojan horse.

Some people would say there were Greeks spotted, but the Greeks might cause some ridiculous stories to emerge, so that if Greeks were actually detected by someone, that story also would be discredited.

However, in our case we are not yet a threat in the interstellar or even in our solar system.  It is extremely unlikely in my opinion that they would want our stuff.  They can find stuff all over the universe.  And if they wanted to eat us, then they could just take samples and farm humans somewhere.  Of course, I don't think that they would even think that was worth anything to them.

They might be interested to see if we could become a threat, and they might want to let us know that we should mind our p's and q's.

But that is not likely to be the case here, but it is good to rehearse the potential, to some extent so we can develop thinking about these things.

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