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And Spain gave up.......
What about Italy?
Well there is this slight problem with the USA that is forcing the goverment of Italy out. Killing its citizens and ursurping her laws does tend to destroy faith in each other.
Our capability with AI is very limited and in all likehood any robotic construction crew sent to the Moon will only have a limited hazard avoidance system on them.
To provide brains will require Humans in the loop operators from Earth who will control the devices like we control ROVs or UAVs now. The only problem though is the 4 second delay but that is not insurmountable and is hardly a problem for basic mining. For more complicated tasks a regime of taking your time will be enacted and with virtual reality to help not a problem.
And robots do have a lot of advantages for Base construction and with modifications we learn as we go along these will increase.
Heres some thoughts about a spinning station.
1) One of the biggest problems for all items in space is heat and the energy of the sun. While a station like the ISS will have the side facing the sun heated up by many hundreds of degrees the side in shade is very cold. This puts a lot of stress onto the shape and also a lot of wear. A spinning station would revolve itself in to the heat and be warmed but when it rotated away the material of its hull would not cool that fast. A spinning station then would recieve a lot less stress from the changes in heat. It would still go into the shade provided by the Earth at times but still its wear and tear would be less, in this regard.
2) A spinning station would be very visible from Earth and if there is a thing that should inspire people to support working in space the effect of seeing a comfortable visible outpost of humanity with your own eyes will be it.
LO
They did withdraw from Iraq, which was the aim of the terrorists in the first place. They left their allies in what was a war in the lurch. So why should I respect that decision.
No ! The very first reason why the troops were withdrawn was the will of the spanish population, it happened that its coincided with the terrorists' will.
With more than 80% of the Spanish opposed to war in Iraq before and during the war, Aznar did engage Spain in an unwanted war.
The spanish population will has not been dictated by the terrorists ! What you say is untrue and unfair.
Should Aznar had acted democratically, he wouldn't have sent troops to Iraq, same for most of the coalition countries leaders.
Therefore, you can't consider that the Spanish population betrayed the coalition, you can only do that if the Spanish population had changed his mind because of the attacks, which is not the case.
Aznar just betrayed his people's will as some other leaders did.
Who did lie about the WMD ? Who wanted war whatever would be the inspections results ? Who drove coalition forces straight into the lurch ?Aznar was interested in fighting ETA terrorism, if he didn't fight islamoterrorism efficiently enough, blame him, he lied about the Madrid attacks authors, blame him, the actual spanish gouvernment is acting against islamoterrorists and trying to have a political agreement with ETA, as well as GB is trying to have a political agreement with the IRA.
The election that Spain was going through what was a very close thing until the bombings of the Madrid transport system. After it there was a move to the oposition and so political change and so the terrorists not only achieved there aims but gained much encouragement from it. In the final analysis when you go into a war especially one against an enemy who enjoys killing your weak and helpless to give up is not an option. To give up is to only enourage others to attempt the same.
And Spain gave up.......
The IRA bombed london...they Lost. Are you getting the drift. We are not the Spanish, all you have done is to really destroyed any sympathy or unrest that existed over Iraq. if you dont believe that trust this one statement you killed 38, you will loose a lot more than that.
LO
You seem to disdain the Spanish. I really don't think they are less courageous than any.
They have punished Jose Maria Aznar, their former prime, for having lied and maintened that lie against all evidences that ETA was responsible for the bombings.
Wouldn't you be angry if Blair had immediately accused the IRA for these attacks without any proof ?
The spanish socialists said they would withdraw their troops from Iraq, they had to do it to respect the political program they were elected for.
I'm sure the Spanish do mobilize all their forces to fight terrorism.
They did withdraw from Iraq, which was the aim of the terrorists in the first place. They left their allies in what was a war in the lurch. So why should I respect that decision.
I would have been angry if Blair had blamed the IRA when it was not them but then he did not nor was it even mentioned. Difference in Culture here I suppose. In times of adversity our leadership does not lie to its electorate. Another thing that is different, after the Madrid bombings the Spanish insisted in withdrawing from Iraq. In the UK we just angry and we get very very determined.
And Spain does not really interest itself in international crime and terrorism until recently. Remember there was such a thing as the costa del crime with wanted criminals staying in spain to avoid prosecution. The same happened to the IRA with active cells preparing themselves to strike at British assets in Spain and in one example the Gibraltar operation where an IRA cell was shot dead after entering the colony from spain where it had been preparing its strike and Spain objected to the UK taking action.
Well your idea was implemented by the Nazi and is genocide. Which was completely diffrent from what i said. I said that unless we want to strip the freedom women have we shouldn't be complain about the low birth rate in Europe.
Actually it was not the Nazis who invented the idea of racial seperation this is a very victorian idea.
And incidentally well into the 1960s Sweden used to sterilise women who gave birth out of childhood and the children of those women. It also used to sterilise the mentally ill too. I really wish I was joking.
It seems to me everyone complains about "Americanisation", even some people in America
Really? Never heard anyone complain.
Well the French object to it as they prefer there culture and Americanisation is refered to as Globalisation. There is one benefit though to there determination to keep there way of life. In modern Europe they have the highest Birthrate of any country. Actually there population will grow by 50% in 25 years at the rate things go there. Makes you wonder sometimes about the UKs lifestyle and Frances determination to keep its 35 hour week and very strong family policies.
Of course any european country could simply enact policies to increase its native population its just easier to get workers fully grown from abroad.
The whole China versus Taiwan things is over-stated, if Taiwan had want to hit Chinese on the mainland they would have done it during the days of their Totalitarian regime and days of Martial law on the Taiwan island. If mainland China wanted to strike Taiwan they would have done it during the days of crazy Mao and his harsh dictator ways.
That is not necassarily true by then Taiwan was friendly with the USA and without a serious navy China could not really think of any attempt to invade Taiwan. Taiwan was also for all intents a very serious nut to crack and would have probable repulsed any major attack China could mount as China was a land based army and had not enough sea nad air assets to ensure complete superiority.
China has instead proceeded with a diplomatic campaign to isolate and weaken Taiwan and further in the last decade it has gained a navy. It regularily threatens the Taiwanese if they ever consider declaring independence they will immediately be invaded. This even when for all intents the Taiwanese are independent in everything but name. China regularily fires missiles across Taiwanese airspace and conducts invasion exercises. Add to this the sanctions China puts on people doing buisness with Taiwan and you can see why I Dont underestimate the threat China poses to Taiwan.
President Hugo Chavez has recently accused President Bush of plotting to assasinate him, made suggestive comments about Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, visited Fidel Castro in Cuba, bashed the United States on the al-Jazeera television network and travelled to Libya to recieve an award from Moammar Gaddafi
He has also in the process of creating a Leaque of South American countries opposed to the USA and is using much reduced oil supply costs to "bribe" them. Mr Chavez is a Venezuelan Nationalist and im not too sure even that sane to begin with. While he is giving all this money away do you know what is happening to the welfare of his country. Well he has basically let it collapse and it is only the Cuban doctors and Nurses that are over there as part of a people for Oil deal with Cuba that even lets Venezuela have an operational medical service. And who is the biggest support he gets from abroad yes its from China.
Another tin pot dictator and one who has turned on his own people is that of Robert Mugabe. The "police" and "party" soldiers have been bulldozing peoples houses down for weeks and moving them off there land for years. The population of Zimbabwe are starving there countries collapsing but where does the Zimbabwian goverment get all those new army vehicles those new helicopters those new Bulldozers. Yes they are all Chinese. And they are being given free.
Will China rock the world ? I think not for the Chinese don't have this ambition
Sorry, The Chinese seem to be deliberatly getting themselves on the side of just about every anti western anti USA anti Britain country or faction in the world. The only ones they dont appear to have been involved in is Al-Qhaeda and that is only becawse Al-Qhaeda wants to destroy China just as much as the western world.
There is always the possibility that Bigelows inflatable modules could be strung together in the Wheel section to crete your series of rooms. Being inflatable hopefully you could reduce the flights you need of the heavy lifter to provide the building blocks.
And as stated one of the hardest bits will be to have the central "column" not spinning and so to ensure a bit more safety and to avoid collisions there is nothing to stop the "column" being just that with a docking port far below.
This would also allow the creation of bands and sails of solar cells to provide power and if located at the "top" would increase there safety, being fragile things.
Still a worthwhile project and I suppose an absolute necessity one day when major space based construction will be necassary or in the case of some form of space manufacturing.
The bombs in London are an attempt to terrorise the British population. 38 people are now confirmed dead but there are over 700 casualties. The emergency services where ready for something like this that is why the death rate is low. The mood over here is shock but not really surprise and a real sense of national anger, we have sort of been expecting it so have been well trained and a lot of previous plots have been stopped.
One thing Al-qhaeda should know. The Germans bombed London...They lost. The IRA bombed london...they Lost. Are you getting the drift. We are not the Spanish,all you have done is to really destroyed any sympathy or unrest that existed over Iraq. if you dont believe that trust this one statement you killed 38, you will loose a lot more than that.
Failte Torraway
To protect the people who live on Mars life support systems will be very hard to disable and though the most efficient system will cover all parts of the colony there will be backup systems galore. Just opening an airlock to vacum will not be enough when each area of the colony will lock down to protect people.
So revolution will need to be a symptom of major general unrest but though terrorism may kill and hurt people it will not succeed in destroying the colony and with the advantages of modern technology crime and terrorists will find it hard to function.
Mars has zero value to the majority of the Human race right now it may have great potential but no one will spend money on potential they cannot use. Mars will only have a value when there is a very significant population there and there is either a miraculous discovery and or flight costs reduce incredibly beyond what is current or even planned.
Unfortunatly right now this is not the case. So the big guestion is why go to Mars if it as stated worthless though with great potential. Well there is the Human drive to colonize but it would need a lot of resources from a host nation to manage to send the small amounts of people possible. Certain groups (religous, oppressed in some way) who have the financial capacity could do it to gain the freedom.
So how can we get to send people to Mars. I dont know.
But I do know that the only way is to be able to reduce the cost to send a person and that means to be able to manufacture, fuel and stock larger vessels out of the Earths pull. In that way costs can be brought down to a point where it may be feasible to go for colonisation rather than just exploration. And with national pride possibly involved then there may be a race with some unknown nation to send and start the colonisation of Mars.
Well the G8 summit is here again and its in Scotland. Apart from the incredible police prescence and a good bit of riot training for myself and many major companies closing down for the week and boarding there windows, Buisness as usual.
Seems the Guardian newspaper has managed to get a copy of the USA's position on the tackling Global Warming bit of the conference. It appears the USA the only G8 country not to be a signed up member of the Kyoto accords objects to certain key statements.
http://www.spacedaily.com/2005/05063023 … spacedaily article
There is also a possiblity that Tony Blair will break away from the USA at this conference and sponsor a commitment to tackling CO2 emissions and even to the point where the USA is ostracised by the rest of the G8 something that has never happened to any country.
I think GB is in for an interesting visit to Scotland. I wonder if he likes whiskey, he may need a drink after this.
I often wonder what's the point of all this interdependence? I'm not pitching for nor advocating isolationism, btw.
We have evolved the world into an interconnected collective its really a matter of resources and of trade. The USA is a net importer like many western or developed countries. So to disengage is impossible now you have to live with the rest otherwise you become the North Korea of the western world.
Only if given that choice, people aren't going to vote to put the resources that go into the military to build giant humanitarian happy ships to help the world.
No, but many people would put a lot of money to having ships to leave the world behind and all its problems. I remember with fun reading some of the libertarian plans to do this. Until we can live in our own self created paradises better make sure that you can hammer your neighbours and to make them know it too. Still it is always better to get on with them never know when you might need to do something and need the help. It seems the USA certainly can do the former but with the latter it has a lot of trouble.
The problem of planting trees is not so much that they can not grow in the desert but it is one of water supply, nutrients for good growth and the blistering temperatures. If one uses high altitude balloons that were large in size or just placed lots of them over this area to effect a temperature change a new weather pattern would start. Supplement that with the planting and a progressive stepped approach it just may work. Reduce the number of sun blocker balloons as time goes on to aid with temperature control.
One could possibly make these balloons with solar cells on the top, add some steering capability and maybe an anchor line or tether to allow for free energy to supplement to process to be brought to the ground.
Your right about the water supply but if we plant enough trees it should create a cycle where the shade cools the area and more moisture will arrive. With luck eventually and enough plant life you create a full rain cycle.
North Africa used to have this but the depredations of man in cutting the trees down to give the cities growing there (Carthage, Roman) fuel and extra food area changed the enviroment to what is now desert or semi desert.
*Hears alarm bells going off*
Whooooa there, now wait just one second... Again, the first reflex seems to be to cut corners; to cut corners with the safety the mission in order to save some mass and make it easier to get to Mars, and increasing complexity in the process.
This is the kind of thinking that got MarsDirect into such a terrible condition, that it refuses to accept that getting to Mars is anything but quick and easy, its just a matter of "out smarting" the problem with clever but complicated tricks.
No no no! Effective, simple, dependable... THEN talk about mass, in that order. You develop a Mars ship from the payload down, unlike Bob's plan of building from the launcher up, in order to save a buck and some time.
Develop your Mars ship, make the thing sturdy, reliable, and effective... THEN figure out how to get the thing to Mars. If it takes more mass then you'd like for your launch vehicle, too bad, thats the price of doing business.
Radiation shielding is a great example... active systems fail, even though they may be lighter, but they fail and the crew suffers the consequences. Instead, bring along an extra few hundred kilos of shielding (like water, which would be good in case water recycling failed), and leave it at that. Yes it weighs more, but thats the way it is.
But anything that reduces risk should be taken up and something that reduces the radiation count that the astronauts take is definitly worth it. I always understood that it is not ready now but it is a worthwhile technology to develop. If only to keep a protective cover over the people we need to work on the surface of a medium term Lunar base.
We have discussed this technology before and it is a good idea was the general consensus but it is one for the longer term and frankly probably will never be ready for the first missions to Mars. But if we ever start to send large contingents to Mars it will be necassary as using mass to protect larger contingents makes for extremely expensive to use cyclers.
still who knows.
It could also be used for vessels on there way to Mars and if light enough probably better than any shielding made. And not depending on having a lot of water as a barrier. Anything to make the mission lighter.
From my POV, a lot of the current anti-U.S. sentiment is of the "methinks they doth protest too much" sort.
But there are things the USA does that do deeply trouble the world.
Heres an example.
http://www.terradaily.com/news/energy-t … Terradaily article
The gist is that the countries that form OPEC are concerned that a new law that the congress is considering would allow US citizens to sue OPEC countries, freeze their assets and have members of the cartel like the energy ministers arrested for allowing Oil prices to get too high.
With oil prices going up due to the increased demand and reduced production OPEC could be in an American court for not being powerful enough to actually keep the prices low.
It does appear to be the USA lording it over every other smaller country, not a good position to be in and more or less produces hostility for the USA in smaller countries.
As an impartial observer of the affairs of the internal USA. It does appear to me that the USA is a lot darker place than the one I grew up or recognise pre 9/11.
It is this perception that allows the not so friendly to the USA people in the likes of the UN etc to paint what ever they like about the USA.
And having a war like the war on terror and the invasion of Iraq though a necassary leads to the USA's actions allways being reviewed in the court of world opinion. In this court the USA is not doing so well. It may be succeeding in Iraq but with the journalism that is present giving instant coveradge of each act of terrorism and setback and pretty much ignoring the good it is easy to understand why.
Being top dog amongst the pack and being focused on external matters does lead to ignoring the home front or when you do pay attention you use the same big stick that was used abroad. And in times of war people are more willing to allow personal liberties to be reduced to allow your country to be "safer". The fun begins after the war ends or if you are totally paranoid that it never ends.
Well the Indian Moon probe and ESA have joined forces. For India it gets European cash and hi tech instruments. For Europe the access to the data and to have even more advanced access to the Moon. Not to mention the goodwill of an up and coming space nation.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050628/a … asp]Indian Telegraph article
It cries out suspended animation does it not.
But what will the result be to Humans will they be the same person who goes under. This is sort of steven King material here.
2 years ago I went Scuba diving amongst the sunken German grand fleet.
Something earie about all those machines of war and of there deadly purpose. And also the intagible feeling of loss that comes from them sitting there at the bottom of Scapa flo.
Actually rather ironic I found what was a german fw-200 condor just off a place called Cromarty the other week. It had been designated to attack the fleet harbored off Invergordon. It never made it and it was a bit of a shock to find it just embedded in the shifting sea floor. It had a similar feeling.
People dislike the militaristic side of many websites that are dedicated to the advancement of space science. But it is unfortunate that all access to space has come from military research. What are our rockets but advanced munitions designed to deliver the ultimate weapon to distant shores?.
I honestly believe that we must call the people from the Mars society, Futureists. We look towards the future some with Emotion, some with disillusion, some with calculation. But to get there we have to look at what the conditions are like now and what it takes to get what we want in the future. We also are quite patriotic in our own ways and we want our own people to be all that they can be and to protect them too.
And todays military science is tomorrows domestic advance. And only a society that is in reasonably good financial health and capable is able to go further in the advancement of space. Another reason to keep up on the military side is that a healthy military is promoting technology to keep its edge and a lot of these advances are either directly transferable or lead to reseach that benefits us the futureists and our dreams and hopes for space.
It is often been said that Scientists dislike the thought of politics and of the military and hate the idea that they are needed. Not being aware of the political trends and advances in military science troubles me. How can someone make an informed judgement if they do not have all the facts. I have arqued with someone who believed that since the Mars society webpages had political views it was not worthy of note, my reply is that scientific aloofness has yet to launch one Mars mission. Its the world we have to convince and the the people with power if we remain aloof and "scientific" unconcerned with the events that shape what happens then we will never get to Mars.
Chinese versus the USA
The United States would be hurt very bad, Americans will get killed and Chinese would see much destruction and Beijing would be bombed
too many would die in this kind of stupid war
It is a stupid war but Beijing is becoming more powerful and will if it continues become a superpower and will eclipse the USA. China is on the up and has a lot of the advantages, and is using them. Of course these "adavantages will disapear in time"
China is on great friendly terms with USA, they have many diplomatic relations, do much trade
so they will never fight
But China is NOT friendly with Taiwan a comitted USA ally and nor is it with Japan a country that is determined not to be eclipsed either with the Chinese and to become more of a leader in the far east. Either these or the troubles over the resource rich Spratly islands can cause military actions. Just look at the problems with fishing between Japan and Taiwan this week.
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's recent visit to New Delhi - the first such trip by a Venezuelan leader - is seen as crucial for both countries. USA have already given caracas many missiles, F16 and guns but today Venezuela is very Anti-Bush
Hugo Chavez is not just Anti-Bush he is Anti-USA and he is supported by his countrymen who have become more and more disillusioned with the USA each day. Like Zimbabwe, Venezuela though has a market for its resources and has found a new "friend" this being China. Do I respect China for providing money and resources so that the likes of Mugabes totalitarian state may continue to the detriment of his own population. Take it from me that the USA and GB do not.
F15 and F14 Tomcat are older design but so are many other planes, who builds a plane over-night ?
Pity that as we need a new generation of fighter and various purpose planes.
The YF22 is a great plane but the most expensive fighter plane ever built, not even the USA can afford it.
True and unfortunately for Dook it can be detected by Radar the French can. They do it by using doplar radar. They can also detect the Stealth fighter and Bomber using the difference in returned signals. Expensive system but available to all who can afford it and China has invested.
the British sent Harriers to fly non-stop from England to fight in the war in the Falklands against Argentina
Please it was not Harriers we sent but the much longer ranged V force Vulcans and though they did attack port Stanley they only could manage this as a result of our base in the Assension Islands providing in flight refueling. This was a new technique at the time and we had much to learn. Still the proliferation of British bases around the world and the UK's willingness to "share" with the USA gives the USA a much more global reach. Examples are Diego Garcia for the gulf, Cyprus for the middle east, Gibraltar for North Africa and Ascension for the African states.
India and the USA will never fight, they have great connections and are very friendly
Never believe in absolutes that will only destroy that which you call faith. At the moment there is nothing for the USA and India to really wish to fight over but in the future who really knows. Not me and it is always best to be prepared for all possibilities
Also the likehood of actually cooling the atmosphere by particulates unlike the supply of constant light to actually increase the energy that Mars actually recieve.
Good for our plants whatever you say.