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#51 Re: Life support systems » Food! - Marsians=vegetarians? » 2004-04-21 17:23:34

Has anyone here experimented with growing vegetables in a closed system with artificial light/gravity/pressure?

#52 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Mars Design & Architecture - ...(how do you visualize it?) » 2004-04-21 17:20:39

The Martian style of architecture will likely have a lot to do with the initial conditions settlers undergo.  If initially the settlers have to live in caves, I foresee Martian architecture skimping on the external details and focusing on making the insides of structures seem soaring, light and airy--to combat claustrophobia. 
I expect future Martian architects to be very creative in that respect.

#53 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Cycler Spaceships - Ships going between Earth and Mars » 2004-04-21 17:12:29

Well if you want to use an asteroid, how big of an asteroid are we talking about here?  Moreover, how many big-bombs will it take to pound it into dust?
I see a practical application here for a self-destruct mechanism.

#54 Re: Civilization and Culture » Militarization -Before- Colonization? » 2004-04-16 20:05:21

Research & Development.  Also, it might come about as the result of pork-barrel spending.  I'm thinking that Mars colonies and military bases are going to grow simultaneously.

#55 Re: Civilization and Culture » Militarization -Before- Colonization? » 2004-04-15 22:07:50

Look, for one thing, there's absolutely nothing wrong with "Militarization" (Unless you happen to be of the school of thought that anything to with Armies = evilevilevilevil.)
I think the US Navy, with their excellent track record at maintaining and using small reactors in hostile environments would be excellent at running hypothetical spacecraft.

Although I am in favor of journeying into the unknown as heavily armed as possible (Just in case E.T. turns out to be disinclined to respect our right to exist), I really don't see there being any enemies for potential navies to fight. 

We militarized the land
We militarized the sea
We militarized the air
Militarization of Space is not a question of if, it is a question of when.  Besides, having spacecraft that could knock ICBMs out of the air effectively and mount a rapid counterassault would render the ICBM as we know it largely obsolete.

Militarization of space would likely help the path to Mars.  Let's face it, NASA gets chump change compared to the funding that the US Armed forces receives. 
So let's say some time in a few decades, the USPN (United States Planetary Navy) needs a base out on the Red Planet for research & development.  In the spirit of the Iraq conflict, they begin to bring in civilian contractors--who are willing to maintain the base.  Within a year, the first true Martian is born.

#56 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » How would you terraform mars? » 2004-04-01 01:17:39

I would hit it with asteroids that consisted mostly of water.  The impact, plus the water, would probably jumpstart the atmosphere somewhat.

#57 Re: Pictures of Mars » Photos from my backyard » 2004-03-12 08:52:13

Yep, we'd better get designing those heavy-lift vehicles

#58 Re: Civilization and Culture » Exchange Mediums - Martian Currency-A few thoughts » 2004-03-08 19:35:10

But unless you have actual hardware on Mars, having hundreds of minted coins or pieces of paper is WORTHLESS.  That's why I suggested that the Ampere-hour could be used as a currency. 
If you arbitrarily create a currency, then it's value will be arbitrary.  I suggested that something real, easily portable, and inherently useful might be used. 

If people barter and exchange things of unequal value it may lead to squabbles, discontent and maybe fights or anarchy

Have you ever heard of the diamond-water paradox?  The value of anything is in the eye of the beholder 

Anyhow, the fastest way to anarchy would be to immediatly adopt a currency and then you'd watch as inflation skyrockets and all your money becomes worthless.

Your currency would be -worthless- on Earth-barring the existence of a government that was willing to accept a HUGE loss, and you would be essentially isolated, given the long transit times that we are currently looking at.

Money as we know it only works when posessing it is more practical then holding onto real goods.  If you have un-backed currency and a society that will be oriented towards practical needs (Such as growing food, expanding living space, in essence building a new world) I think that the society in question would avoid the currency entirely.

Electricity, as I have suggested, could be a viable Martian currency.  Inflation of the electricity supply would be deterred by the fact that prices and profits would sink if someone decided to flood the markets, and they would rise if someone raised their prices.  The key here would be encouraging a state of near-perfect competition with multiple competitors.  Since everyone will have a need for electricity, demand will never hit zero-and a market flooding will be avoided as doing so would only hurt the producers of electricity.
Anyhow, I expect the future Martian commodities market to be very interesting.

#60 Re: Planetary transportation » SUV's on Mars? - Making it sound simple, got me wondering » 2004-03-06 22:14:29

Now this seems like one of the oddest, if not original ideas that I have ever heard. 
For Mars, I think you will indeed need an inherently high-tech vehicle, but you will have to engineer it to be easily repairable in the field without the need for special replacement parts.
What's the use of engineering a 300 million dollar vehicle if you cannot fix it when it breaks down on Mars?

#61 Re: Human missions » Q: Ownership of hardware on Mars - Setting up shop... » 2004-02-27 12:21:02

A private corporation, if it had a self-sustaining Mars base, would be untouchable in a sense.  If there is no way to physically challenge the ownership, then all your legal wrangling falls apart.
Self-sustainment is the key to claiming property on Mars.

#62 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Should God be Exported to Mars? » 2004-02-27 00:54:54

Interesting way to think of ideologies.  I suppose you could metaphorically call tradition "Mental DNA"

#63 Re: Not So Free Chat » Conservatives, Moderates, Liberals » 2004-02-26 23:43:32

"As an European, I'm equally stumped...
Why oh why do a lot of people (in most cases) go so black and white on issues?"

And why must you stereotype?  If several people decide to go a certain way, they have thought for themselves and have thought differently then yourself.


"Another thing i noticed: most of the discussions between 'liberals' and 'conservatives' looks like intelligent discussion, but it is just the nth rehash of former discussions, numbers etc. stated in lib or cons papers... it gets pretty tedious after a while, it's like a dialogue of parrots..."

American 'Liberals' and American 'Conservatives' share  fundamental disagreements.  That is why you see so much "re-hashing."
Not so much a clash of minds, but a clash of ideologies.

#64 Re: Human missions » Q: Ownership of hardware on Mars - Setting up shop... » 2004-02-26 20:07:39

When you get down to it, might does make right.  Law is only established via force.  Any idiot that tried to sue the USA for doing Mars Direct would have not a leg to stand on.

#65 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » The Care and Repair of Public Myth - Martians Need Myths Too » 2004-02-23 01:40:19

I think Scott is smart in that he recognizes the power of traditions, and the need to maintain them.  Sure, the Golden ratio could be a possible ideology to base a society on, but...

Scott's Golden Conjecture About Beach's Phi-based Triangle
In triangle SGB, if the length of side SG is equal to the reciprocal of the square root of Phi, and if the length of side GB is equal to the square root of Phi, and if the length of side SB is equal to Phi, then a line that bisects angle SGB will intersect side SB and will, at the point of intersection (designated point I), divide side SB into the Golden Ratio.  Furthermore, the length of line GI will be equal to the reciprocal of Phi and triangle GIB will be similar to triangle SGB.

Scott, I simply don't think you could inspire people with this.  It's a nice set of coincidences though.  Now if for instance, you were to somehow go to Mars and "tame" it (Figure out how to live productively and be self-sustaining), then I think you would have a much better myth.  Then, you might be able to incorporate Phi into the saga of Scott, First Lord of Euthenia.

#66 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Should God be Exported to Mars? » 2004-02-21 13:18:41

That made absolutely no sense at all.  Think before you post.

#67 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Should God be Exported to Mars? » 2004-02-17 21:57:47

Let Mars be an ideological free-for-all (Unless your ideology happens to endorse blowing up vital life support systems)!

#68 Re: Civilization and Culture » Exchange Mediums - Martian Currency-A few thoughts » 2004-02-15 00:19:31

Originally I suggested that early Martian trade would take the form of barter.  I still hold that position.  The idea of having legal tender (Which means that someone MUST accept it as payment) would be silly during the early colonization/exploration phase. 

Of course it would have to be a currency everyone recognized or else it would fall apart

And of course, therein lies the problem with establishing a currency.  The proper route is to let people barter goods and services, and then move to a currency when the colonies are firmly established.

#69 Re: Terraformation » Terraforming Venus - methods anyone? » 2004-02-15 00:13:32

Clouds aren't the same thing as a nuclear winter.  Nuclear winters occur when enough dust is hurled into the atmosphere to obscure the sun to the extent that the solar radiation received by the surface/atmosphere is reduced enough to lower the temperature of the atmosphere several degrees.

We are supposed to terraform, not to poison with radioactivity,
anyways, nuclear winter comes to Earth by masking Sun rays,
and Venus clouds already mask Sun rays, doesn't they ?

Are we talking long-term or short-term terraforming?  It seems that an extensive nuclear barrage would be the way to induce changes into the atmosphere of Venus in a rather short period of time (Maybe use it to induce huge amounts of volcanic action).  As it is now, you could not live on Venus.  Radioactivity dies away eventually. 
Maybe a better idea would be to pelt it with massive asteroids a la Armageddon.

Kippy, about those subsurface gauss rifles-how do you expect them to be put under the surface to begin with?  Venus has enough pressure in its atmosphere to crush quite a few things, and did I mention that it rains ACID on Venus?


As things stand now, moving a planet is...bordering on the absurd.

#70 Re: Human missions » New Vehicle? We already have one. - Why not use the ISS for Moon/Mars? » 2004-02-08 21:44:08

Well, as I have heard from a fellow at NASA-the ISS 1)  Doesn't have the necessary radiation shielding 2)  Couldn't withstand enough acceleration to leave LEO

#71 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Solar Wind » 2004-02-05 11:42:25

"If feasible, couldn't one tack back to Earth.  Sailboats use tacking to move into the wind, so wouldn't that be possible for a light sail craft?"

I don't think that it would be possible to tack back to Earth with a solar sail.  Tacking is the result of the keel of the boat being pushed against by the water in response to the force of the wind pushing sideways on the sail.  Like a watermelon seed squeezed between two fingers-the boat moves forward. 

Unless you could construe keel-analogue that worked in space, I do not think that tacking into the light would be feasible.  However, if you had a material that had alterable reflectivity and opacity, you could theoretically sail at an angle to the sun and still receive some of it's light.

#72 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Yet another Martian Constitution - An alternative to Euthenia » 2004-02-04 18:01:35

Well, I like the Spirit of the thing-but I do have a problem where you use the words "Shall be punished by"
I think you ought to word it, "Shall be punishable by."

#73 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Should God be Exported to Mars? » 2004-02-03 00:19:39

Should Martian laws prohibit Martians from advocating the existence of supernatural beings?

Ah, no.  That stinks of thought control.  Not all rational people think alike.

#74 Re: Intelligent Alien Life » One question, what would it be? - Contact with an ET, what would you ask? » 2004-01-29 23:58:47

Well...the question assumes that we can communicate clearly with said ET's.

#75 Re: Civilization and Culture » Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts » 2004-01-24 02:46:37

A single space elevator on Earth would speed up the process of assembling a mission by about 300 percent.

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