New Mars Forums

Speaking for my viewpoint...not all potential martians are looking for some grandiose expansion of the human race.  I would be looking for the same thing as the settlers who first went to North America, space to grow and not be limited by those who are already there.

That is why terraforming is needed, for the children and granschildren of the settlers who are making a life there.

I have a little insight here.  I am a helicopter pilot by trade and currently work in support of off-shore oil production in Africa.  Nearly my entire career has been spent in and out out of isolated and culturally foreign areas to one degree or another.

About the oil rigs, they are supported by relatively rapid transportation both by surface vessels and or helicopter support.  They export their problems.

Even the recently publicized case of the sick doctor in the Antarctic showed that as much as possible, they try to do the same.

Mars will not have that option.

My current posting is a good example of what we will see on a Mars mission, in general if not specifics.  I work with a group of guys that are chosen for professional qualifications, not at all by how well we get along with each other.  We live together in a set of crew houses and spend much more time with each other than we do with our wives or children.  At the start of a tour, we generally start happy and ready to work.  As the weeks pass the little things, whether it is crew-mates idosyncracies or the frustrations of working and living in Africa, work on you like a never-ending water torture, and after 5 or 6 weeks you find yourself irritable, tired, and thinking only of home.  Each of us tries to find something to relieve this stress, and as was stated previously, many people resort to alcohol.

I see many of the crew structure ideas that are posted here or in NASA documents and I wonder if anyone who is writing them has spent ANY time in situations like this?  People WILL crack, especially if you stuff 6 or 12 of them in a little can and launch them on a 3 year journey together.  The key is to be prepared to let them blow off the steam without causing irreparable harm.

The best idea, in my eyes, is to let them crewmembers choose each other.  No phoney closed ballots, hidden comments, or commitee decisions.  Choose the people you will be married to for the next few years yourseld, and choose with care.

On the topic of crime and insanity, imagine how you would react after commiting 5 or 6 years (or more) to prepare for a mission to another planet, to be the first one there, and one of your crew-members decides to act up and cancel the trip.  And to top it off, you get to still spend the next year or two with them on the way home.  Now tell me this upstart won't be dealt with by the rest of the crew...

Comparing the regime of Hitler to what these guys are supporting as a monarchy is quite a stretch.  From where I've been sitting the last few years, American style democracy is at least as distasteful as any monarchies I've seen.

Given the opportunity to emigrate to a new frontier on Mars I'd be inclined to fight, tooth and nail, any intrusion of an old Earth-based political system.  Every system that places control in the hands of a select group is corruptable.  Current politicians are the epitome of this corruption.

The very lack of a centralized provision of power and other necessities and the development of stand-alone habitations will result in the ability to live without control by some self-absorbed twit who is paid by levying some tax/tithe/theft from the people he governs.

Mars is an opportunity to escape central government, not create a new one.

Is there any information that the Mars Society has acquired (or anyone lese for that matter) on the topic of non-governmental funding for a Mars mission?

What I'm wondering is how possible it is to pay for some of the mission cost by selling media rights, access to returned samples, access to medical and life-support data, etc.

Would any of the aerospace manufacturers be willing to pro-rate a launch in order to have the distinction of being the Mars launch vehicle?

Would any of the large brand names be willing to pay to have their name on all the suits, meals, camera shots, etc.?

I have been cruising the various topics in the forums and see what is potentially a solution to some of the concerns.  Some of this idea has been catalyzed while reading the NASA Design Reference Mission document.  I'd like to try and organize these thoughts and if I can put them together properly I'll post them here.

Reposted from another topic:

---------------------------------------------------------Back a few posts someone said something about why people would go to mars.  Some of the headings seemed odd to me, especially the idea that pioneers would be few and far between.

I see a pioneer as the first martian.  Here's how.

I come up (personally or by contracting) w/ a Mars one-way plan.  I'm going to take with me hydroponics gear, seed-stock, a power plant, the essentials of a chemical plant and a machine shop.  Add in a vehicle or two and LOTS of spares.

I purchase a commercial launch spot and off I go.

On arrival I set up shop, start processing CH4 and O2 and others.  I get the hydroponics going, and cannibalize my ship in doing it.

When the scientists or engineers or astronauts or religious refugees or whoever shows up I have goods to "sell" them.  A barter system to a point I imagine.

How did I pay for all this?  My sponsor is Texaco (for instance) or CNN or somebody.  They get to put their name on what I do, and take a cut of the money I make.  Their part was initial cash and support and access to what I learn and produce (material, samples, and information<read publicity>).

Why would NASA or anyone buy from me?  Because it's cheaper than re-inventing the wheel.  It reduces risk to use what is already available.

I could even get the ball rolling by sending back small sample return packets, at cost plus a little mark-up, to NASA or a university or the ESA, anyone really.

Is it risky? Yep.  Would I still do it? Yep.  Would I try to mitigate risk? Yep.  Would I have to justify it to Congress or the Kremlin or a commitee of hundreds? Nope.

How did I manage this?

I look at the plans like Mars direct, and I take away:

I take away the extra people (I work better alone anyway).
I take away the return hardware (I'm here to live not visit).
I use low-tech and interchangable hardware (obvious).
I accept the risk that if I don't grow food I die.
I accept the risk that if no-one shows up I'll be lonely.
I'm motivated to build a home, not a base or a station or an outpost or a research facility.

Maybe if I'm lucky some-one would even want to come stay with me eventually, once I work the bugs out.

How does this relate to terraforming you ask?

A pioneer engineers his environment to help him as much as possible.  Breeding life that can live outside of greenhouses and pressure vessels is good sense.  Getting the hydrosphere going is good sense.

My message to the scientists would be simple:  If you want to see Mars before it changes too much, you better be first in line to take advantage of Hotel Elysium and Texaco station just past the 3rd crater on the left.  If you ask nice I'll even cater the first inter-planetary geology seminar.

I'm open to comments, criticisms, etc.  But it seems to me this is what will eventually happen.
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Please stay civil guys.':D'
   

Stu, I really enjoyed reading your post.  I think I actually agree with you in a lot of respects.

    I believe the scientists will go to Mars eventually to learn.  One government will go to prove they could do it first and maybe others will go to prove they could do it too.  And corporations will go if they can make a profit.

    But the pioneers will go to make it home for themselves AND their children.  They will be the ones who actually terra-form the planet.  And as they do so they will change themselves.  Mankind doesn't change much now becausew, really, we live with insignificant risk.  The pressures of pioneer life will force new pressures on these people and as they make Mars more liveable for themselves, they will make themselves more able to live on Mars.  Their children and grand-children will not have an artificial view of what Mars SHOULD be, as you described above, but rather they will know and love and appreciate the beauty in the world they have grown-up in. 

    You are very right that the Earthling explorers will have moved on and out of the Sol sytem or somewhere to keep their short attention span motivated, but the people who are growing crops and raising families and building towns in a world of their own making will not be trying so hard to re-create Earth, they will just be living.

    I hope this makes sense.  Thanks.