You are not logged in.
" The US Navy has been bragging about its military might on the internet, releasing photos and videos of its magnetism-powered new railgun to the masses. "
http://techdigest.tv/2008/02/us_navy_boastin.html
See magnetic mass driver page for a similar idea.
The tech isn't there, which is why I think most of these ideas are guaranteed to fail
I don't think they will be doing manned flights
Soyuz will launch communication satellites into geostationary orbit
Can someone explain to me how the Russian shttle would be useful for a manned Mars mission?
The Buran transport system wasn't just for launching Shuttles, it was more about the new heavy lift the Russians built. The Energia booster rocket which could have launched other payloads like Polus etc
http://www.army.lv/photos/3984.jpg
Russia had little experience with Mars missions but they do have great experience with long duration flights and they still hold the largest records for stay in space. If they did a few launches in quick succession, they could look at launching 3 or more in a row and think at in-orbit assembly of a Russian habitation module and capsule and Mars lander.
Mars Society: NASA Funding Bill Could Cripple Vision For Space Exploration
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - The Mars Society would like to express its disappointment concerning the NASA portion of the Congressional Omnibus Appropriations Bill that was signed by the President last week.
While the bill provides additional support for science missions - including for exploration of Mars - it fails to adequately fund NASA’s plans to return to the Moon and then send humans to Mars. One of the worst aspects of the bill is that it contains language that would prohibit “funding of any research, development, or demonstration activities related exclusively to human exploration of Mars”.
Not only is this language counter-productive to running a coherent multi-year exploration plan, but it is not consistent with the NASA Authorization that Congress overwhelmingly approved in 2005. In that Authorization bill, Congress approved NASA’s plans to send humans to Mars and supported the expenditures that will be necessary to make that goal possible - something that the Omnibus bill does not do.
“Although this bill is unlikely to have a large immediate impact on the program, it sets a terrible precedent,” said Mars Society Political Director Chris Carberry. “If this language makes it into future budgets, I guarantee that this program will slowly become a Moon-only effort - or worse. Congress and the next President of the United States need to accelerate this program rather than limiting it. We certainly will not be creating an effective program or be serving the tax payers well by keeping this program endlessly on ‘life-support.’”
The Mars Society calls on members of the United States Congress to oppose any efforts to include this language in any future budgets. It is time for the United States to fully commit to sending humans to Mars as soon as possible.
The Mars Society is a private international grassroots organization dedicated to furthering the case for human exploration of Mars. Since its founding in 1998, The Mars Society’s strong commitment to both outreach and research has put it at the forefront of Mars exploration proponents, with 7000 members in 40 countries. The organization currently operates multiple world class research facilities which investigate many technical and human factors associated with human space exploration. Significant political and public outreach has led to several hundred meetings with U.S. congressional offices, and has otherwise reached hundreds of millions of people through various media outlets.
Ron Paul Presidential Campaign
Position Paper
(1988)
http://www.islandone.org/Politics/LP.space-dom.html
"ESA PR 3-2008. The European Space Agency and Astrium jointly invite the media to attend a press conference on the occasion of the industrial contract signature of BepiColombo, the first European mission to Mercury. The event will be held at Astrium Friedrichshafen on 18 January 2008."
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM7C83MDAF_index_0.html
" Europe is supplying three instruments for the mission. "
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM6563MDAF_index_0.html
Griffin advises astronomers to avoid the kids’ table
when is the real election ?
Jules Verne ATV given its 'wings'
http://www.esa.int/esaHS/SEM6EM73R8F_index_0.html
What!!! The Russians are supplying terrorists?!?! This is the first I've heard but it happened, what, ten minutes ago and I haven't seen the news?
Buy a nuclear bunker, that's my advice. Or convert a ICBM into a spacecraft. It's safer up there.
I think people are reading too much into this, or suffering from too much Russia-phobia, this is more about Dollars/Euros talking and not about Russians chatting with terrorists. Sales of defense equipment is often dirty business, Hugo Chavez owns general dynamics F-16 airplanes does this mean Americans are selling military toys for profits, selling them to countries that politically hate the USA. No its just the dirty business of ruthless capitalism, Venezuela had those things a long time ago from sales and the way money works is that sometimes people have a price.
I do agree that Putin is starting to make mistakes, sometimes I think he is beginning to push Russia in the wrong direction with the USA. Russia and America are different cultures but they are supposed to share common values, they both want their security, there are values in these places that respect law, both Russia and America they love their nature, their eagles and bears, they like their environment, their birch-trees, the people both want to be safe. Maybe Putin is becoming confrontational, if Putin keeps going in this direction might start to push Russia backwards. I think Russian people want to be going forward not some old Cold Warrior that sounds like the old days of East vs West.
Do not read too much into these arms sales, its most about profits $$ and not much else. BTW if you to a little research you can see American companies from the US selling all kinds of military toys to some very strange people and countries they shouldn't be doing business with but like I've been saying money talks.
Russian designed stuff is produced, found, and used all over the world by former Soviet bloc countries, drug cartels, even various US allies because its so dam cheap. Its the legacy of the cold war we'll have to deal with for the next century or so.
We can't take it personally. I'm sure the Russians didn't like having their own stuff turned against them in Chechnya either.
I think this is a much better explanation of the arms situation
China completes enclosure of land for fourth satellite launch center
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007- … 098964.htm
New Rockets ? Better payloads for the Moon ?
They are not afraid of the word progress.
I wonder if shenzhou can truck payloads to the ISS like those Russian ships, are iss and shenzhou a compatible system ?
China doesn't want to acquire more territory? Tell that to the Tibetans, the people of Hong Kong or the Taiwanese, and then find the Spratly Islands.
Tibet and other such Hollywood gibberish is the biggest BS story told across the Western world (actually its mostly of the rightwing anti-China propaganda coming from a few freak religiosity activists in Hollyweird)
China will return Tibet (Xizang) to the natives once all you Europeans, Asians, African etc pack your bags, go back to where you once came and leave the United States bare and return YOUR lands to the real NATIVE AMERICANS
PS
Even your glorious President Bush admits Taiwan IS PART OF CHINA, like North vs South Korea they the people of China and Taiwan are the same people only divided by ideology
How many Americans died to push the Japanese out of China?
How many Chinese and British got killed in WW2 because of American cowardice ? Other foreigners were fighting WW2 for you, for many years they were fighting for you, dying for you while you did nothing. Your noble USA had to be dragged kicking and screaming into WW2, you were happy to see Russians, British, Japanese, Australians and Germans kill each other as long as it brought people like Henry Ford or Charles Lindbergh a few bucks. It wasn't until the kamikaze Japanese bit you in the pants did you finally get up and do something about it.
So dont go preacher about some great noble heroic deed, and PS it was mostly the Russians that helped drive the Japanese from Chinese lands, as they stormed through Manchuria during the last days of the war.
Just to bring the topic back to space
Do please, I joined this forum to discuss space not politics. I came here to discuss Skylab, Voyager, Shenzhou, Venera and not to discuss Donald Rumsfeld or Mao Zedong
Are you accusing me Ciclops of posting anti-american, pro-communist propaganda ? Surely I've been here on newmars long enough and posted good material for enough time to be given some due credit.
I've tried to dig around for sources but not being educated in American politics I had trouble find some stuff.
Controversial Democrat Howard Dean was a supporter of Mars missions,
but Howard Dean is not running this time round
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/79/1
McCain supports a Mars outpost but is concerned about taxpayer dollar costs
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5182
As you may have heard Obama may cut the VSE to pay for education
(I assume no links are need here)
Romney's "campaign" responded on the space issue
http://spacereport.blogspot.com/
by providing an article from the Florida Today newspaper that said: "During the first campaign visit to the Space Coast by a 2008 presidential candidate, Republican Mitt Romney said he supports Bush's vision for space exploration and has no reason yet to propose a new direction."
Only Clinton's official Web site appears to mention NASA or human space exploration specifically, everybody else avoids the word NASA.
As of today Giuliani as a space president should not be taken seriously at all,
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4bf_1173972015&o=1
the last time he turned up at a Space center was to chat about Abortion and the Middle East. The only thing that concerns Rudy on the issue of Space are Alien Invasions and NASA employees who may or may not take part in gay-marriage
For Ron Paul, I don't have anything in writing but Ron Paul looks like he's anti-big-government and perhaps anti-NASA
I think if every Congressman and Senator got 10 detailed letters calling for a manned Mars program it would make an impact.
That's only 5350 letters. Which should be achievable I would think.
But we can do better. Target their campaign managers and Chief of Staffs for mailings as well. The people who write their speeches and actually write the bills they introduce.
Mars is not an immediate concern for American politicians. However with Shuttle set to retire soon Florida is worried about a new manned flight gap. More money from Congress might have done the trick but then there's that veto business. Only Democrat Hillary Clinton, GOP McCain and Republican Mitt Romney support the idea of going to Mars. Romney looks to be a religious fanatic while Hillary is very divisive and not very loved by some voters.
Here's one from Nature dot Com
The presidential space race - November 21, 2007
http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegreatbe … _race.html
Not many of the leading US presidential candidates have spent much time campaigning on space policy. If you’re going to talk about research on the campaign trail, it’s much hipper (and plays better in Iowa) to talk about things like cellulosic ethanol.But yesterday Barack Obama actually brought up NASA – because he wants to delay its moon/Mars exploration program to pay for his new $18 billion education initiative.
http://obama.3cdn.net/a8dfc36246b3dcc3cb_iem6bxpgh.pdf
That would be news to NASA, which is moving full steam ahead on its plans to develop a new manned spaceship to replace the space shuttle.Obama is edging ahead of his main rival, Hillary Clinton, in the polls in Iowa. For her part, Clinton last month made space exploration a vague-sounding cornerstone of her platform on how she would promote scientific research if elected.
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/rele … w/?id=3566
I hope its not going to be generations! I hope to see an era of rapid progress like the early 20th century. Lets just perfect the technology for living on Mars and just go their. Mars is not the place for testing such technology for if it fails people die. Deterimine the reliabilty of the equipment before hand before sending any people. I think if we have until 2031, that is plenty of time to test the equipment, and by that time we should be ready to plant the first colony. We're not going to spend billions of dollars to go to Mars just to see if something works. That is basically my problem with the design reference mission as well, it doesn't use technology which could make it cheaper, it instead wastes billions of dollars going the cautious route until we can be sure we can produce propellent to fuel the return stage. I really don't think we need to be in the vicinity of Mars to test this equipment. I also think the Apollo 10 mission where they almost landed the lunar lander and aborted to see if it works was a waste of money. The might as well have landed the thing and would have had one lunar mission more to justify the expense of Apollo.
I think we should accept some risk. Even a successful colony would have some deaths occuring on Mars. People die on Earth, why shouldn't they also die in space and on Mars. The trick is to see to it that the deaths don't jeapordize the mission, and when missions fail, you just try to fix what is fixable and then you go on. People will die in space and on Mars, if we can't accept that then we shouldn't go there.
Generations of the transportation system, not people. Before Apollo there were two generations in the US system: Gemini and Mercury. After Apollo there was Shuttle and now Constellation. A Mars mission will require additional spacecraft (MTV, lander) and maybe a new inspace propulsion rocket (NTR). It seems unlikely that Mars colonists will be traveling in this generation of equipment.
2031 is a provisional, reference date for a Mars expedition, not a technical one. With enough funding it can be much sooner. If there's a better, cheaper technology fine, but so far there's no contenders. Going to the Moon is still at the edge of current technology, it will expensive and risky. There's more than enough risk already. Currently every crew that launch into space has about a 2% risk of dying. Ares I will reduce that risk by a factor of ten, but a lunar mission will still have about 5% risk, isn't that more than enough? Going to Mars will be more so.
cIclops there are times when I wonder if you are ever able to criticize NASA at all ? I'm not saying you're a Lackey but you hand out a heck of a lot of praise for an agency which got itself stuck in LEO since Apollo. NASA has made great leaps and bounds in un-manned flight like the Voyagers, the MERs on the red Planet, but when it comes to Manned flight the agency has been going backwards since putting American folk on the Moon. You claim Ares-I aka 'The Stick' will increase safety by a factor of Ten. Do you know this for sure or are you just parroting one of those Cheer leading slogans ? You don't need to look for foreign critics when dealing with the issues with The-Stick. Even many Americans are unhappy with these new rocket lines of Stick, former astronauts have criticized it and some people compared it to a giant German hand grenade. I have not seen a good design yet for NASA's manned reusable Mars lander propelled by a NTR . The pics and stats for landing spacecraft and orbiters are varying by many metric tons every time I see a new print to the media by NASA, some of the habitation modules seem to be based more on science fiction than science fact, astronauts may at least need something like a 300 kW nuclear power module but on one of their sites I saw them talking about stuff like Artifical Gravity and Anti-Matter !?!? . Going to Mars will be no joke, it will be putting brave astronauts at risks and one of the things NASA does not deal with properly is the critical issue of a Mars ascent vehicle and the fundamentals of MAV and the ERV systems. It's true that the Soyuz lost people in the first five years of the program but there has been zero of life since despite eight in-orbit emergency. It is a rocket that has been mocked and ignored the West, yet it has a wonderful record, and helped the manned space supremacy for the Russians and even kept the US space program alive after the Shuttle disaster (Ares-I is going to be based on Shuttle components). NASA could have also went the EELV route, a rocket like LM's Atlas-5 lifts a payload comparable to Stick and the Atlas rockets have had success rate of 100% Boeing also had been working on a Delta Heavy Lift.
By the way, your 2031 date is way off the latest from Griffin says America will land people on Mars in 2037
That's 30 years off and with that kind of timetable it looks like Mars is further away than it ever was.
On the scramjet subject, I agree with what publiusr and GCNR once said on this development. The scramjet is fast but not good enough because it does not have the lift, it will provide a very limited payload and very limited results for a very high cost in research and development but it will have other applications such as warfare. The scramjet isn't really good for space travel but will have great military applications such as launching a newest high altitude fighter aircraft that can destroy targets with hypersonic missiles. The scramjet is the sprinter than keeps getting FATTER the more he climbs, scramjet launches need old fashioned rockets before for initial speed buildup and again good old fashioned rockets after for exo-atmospheric flight, so what is their use exactly then other than hitting desired military targets with hypersonic missiles at the scramjets cruise speed?
The space elevator is the ultimate dream, because the technology isn't there the concept is more of a jack and the beanstalk fairytale would be the ultimate megastructure much bigger than the Empire State building or the Great Wall. This would become a clean, safe and reliable method of lifting payloads into space and realizing the dream of people like Konstantin. Future breakthroughs such as Nano-technology may be needed to keep the elevator station in working order.
On a related note
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMUI053R8F_index_0.html
The ESA Foton-M3 now claims a space tether world record
At the moment in time I tend to agree with Maxie
How about neither of these 2 ?
BBC news item
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7053057.stm
I see no mention of Mars
but I do see other missions
Laplace. To study the Jovian system (three orbiters, one entirely dedicated to Europa!) in collaboration with NASA.
Tandem. To study the Saturnian-Titanian-Enceladusian environment (orbiter+carrier with a balloon and 3 probes to Titan) in colaboration with NASA.
Marco Polo. Sample return mission from an asteroid (à la Hayabusa) with orbiter+lander, sampler and return capsule; in collaboration with JAXA.
Dune/SPACE. Two proposed missions to study dark matter and dark energy.
Plato. Extrasolar planets detector, capable of detecting rocky planets.
Spica. Infrared telescope with wide field of analysis, spectroscopy and coronograph; in collaboration with JAXA.
XEUS. X-ray telescope to study extreme environments from L2 halo orbit, consisting on a mirror satellite and a detector satellite flying in formation.
Possible future cuts to ESA's Mars missions in favor of Jupiter/Saturn missions ?
USC Concept Synthesis Studio Colonizes The Moon With Bugs
"Social animals working toward the survival of the whole," spoke Graduate student Gokee Ince.
Ms. Ince's idea was for Termite Colonies to be grown on the moon and in-situ feedstock from an assumed existing green house. The hydrogen production was also seen to be routed to a fuel-cell that generated power and the by-product water was used to keep the termite colony moist.
Ms. Ince delighted the audience with answers to a question by ISU Board Member Michael Potter about her inspiration. She said something like "I had a termite problem and then had this assignment and the two just clicked." Pure inspiration was a pleasure to see.
Let's relight this candle - to the moon, Mars and beyond
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c … OSNRML.DTL
Given the tremendous external economic benefits generated by the U.S. space program, it seems beyond shortsighted that America is now merely limping toward the stars. Indeed, today, NASA's budget in real, inflation-adjusted dollars is a mere shadow of its former Apollonian self - even as China, India, Japan and Russia are rapidly increasing their expenditures and efforts on space exploration. Indeed, just this week, in what has been hailed as the "biggest moon mission since Apollo," Japan's first lunar space probe began to successfully orbit the moon and transmit pictures and data back to Earth. In the coming weeks, China will launch a similar lunar probe as part of the world's most ambitious space program - one that includes plans for a moon colony, missions to Mars, and a permanent space station. In 2008, even India is scheduled to launch its own lunar mission.
America's space indifference has hit our educational system extremely hard. In the current political climate, students no longer find excitement - or lucrative job opportunities - in an array of fields that have, at least until this point, arguably been the most responsible for keeping America's economic engine revving. In the absence of a robust space program, the number of students entering college to study engineering is in a multiyear decline. Instead, college-age students raised during NASA's doldrums of the 1980s and 1990s are far more likely to pursue a career in real estate or law or business. That's a big reason why, since the mid-1980s, engineering enrollment has dropped from 80,000 a year to fewer than 50,000 - despite an increase in the U.S. population. This decline in America's commitment to space exploration - and therefore its commitment to science and technology - will soon be reflected in a slowing rate of innovation, a fall in worker productivity, a reduced GDP growth rate, and a decline in government revenues.
cIclops, I hope you haven't been reading Michael Crichton’s confusing fictional rants. Many Republicans have re-acted without logic and acted without thinking and just took a stance opposite of Al-Gore by calling the whole pollution thing a leftist plot and a democrat conspiracy, this just makes some members of the GOP look like tinfoil heads. Oil giants and anti-AlGore camp claim that all scientists on the planet declared the Earth would freeze over in 1970's like that ridiculous DayAfterTomorrow movie, that of course ain't true and the whole global cooling fiasco is largely a myth. Yes it is true that some scientists were not sure which pollutants would become the dominant force - pollutants that trap IR and lead to warming or aerosol pollutants that act as Anti-global warming gases and contribute to cooling - some people didn't know which would be dominant in the near future and a small group of non-mainstream scientists predicted we could see an ice-age. There were concerns about the relative magnitudes of aerosols that would cool the planet Earth, not all gas causes warming some molecules of aerosol force cooling, it is a process not unlike you may see on Saturn's Moon Titan. It had however become clear by the majority of Scientists that CO2 warming would probably be dominant and this conclusion has subsequently strengthened in later years by further measurements and data. Samples from our Earth tells us more on the subject, 650,000 years of ice have now been analyzed for greenhouse gas concentrations. You do know that most of the Earth banned the use of CFC aerosols during the 80s don't you ? however the CO2 keeps getting pumped out non-stop.
I'm sure you are a rational person and should be able to judge what is happening
Here's another story for you on the GOP and Global warming
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21337492/
Global warming starts to split GOP contenders
Candidates divided over policy solutions, but most recognize the threat
Looks like some people are finally starting to pull their heads out of the sand
NASA To Accelerate Space Nuclear Power
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1237
The average surface temperature of the moon is -20C, so any water that was trapped beneath the surface would be frozen. Could water not exist in sub-surface pockets all over the moon?
The Temperature of the Moon is not steady, its in a constant state of flux and goes through huge changes during lunar day and night, so thoughts on 'average' temperature doesn't hold much weight. There is next to no atmosphere on the Moon so Lowering air pressure, also causes a lower boiling point. Average temperatures on Mars are much more workable and stable. The Moon at night can see temps of Moon -230 F / -145 C and at day 214 F or 101 C. With a low enough pressure, H2O literally explodes off leaving crystals and the rest blowing itself apart into the vacuum as a gas. Spacecraft sent to Mars show evidence of salts this presence of salt raises waters boiling point and Mars unlike the Moon has an atmosphere and although its inhospitable and cold Mars still has a nice steady temperature with its 24 hr day.
There could be water on the Lunar landscape, trapped in some crater, but finding and extracting for astronauts it will be many magnitudes more difficult than doing it on Mars, on Mars we know there is water underneath. In fact if we could release it Mars can have enough to cover itself with a massive ocean.
U.S. Senate Votes to Add $1 Billion to NASA Budget
http://www.planetary.org/programs/proje … 71004.htmlThe final bill will then be sent to the President for signature. President Bush has already stated that he will veto the CJS Bill as passed,
“Senate approves $1B for NASA, but Bush will likely veto”
http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2007 … kely-veto/
Sigh.NASA has an impossible task: continue the Shuttle, finish the space station, start designing and building an entirely new class of rocket, and get us to the Moon.
And oh– they can’t spend any extra money doing all this. The budget is flat.
More on the appropriations veto threat
http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/05 … to-threat/
In a Statement of Administration Policy document released by OMB on Thursday, the administration accused Congress of including ” an irresponsible and excessive level of spending and… other objectionable provisions” to the funding bill. “[I]f S. 1745 were presented to the President” in its current form, the statement warned, “he would veto the bill.”
next step : outsourcing NASA to India ?
From Space Ref
The President has proposed a responsible plan for a balanced budget by 2012
The Administration strongly opposes S. 1745 because, in combination with the other FY 2008 appropriations bills, it includes an irresponsible and excessive level of spending and includes other objectionable provisions.