New Mars Forums

The cheapest way to try this out is on Antartica. However you don't have the radioation, breathable air problems. But still a hostile enough enverioment.

You are right about this as many other european countries can confirm. However they could also have fought their asses off like the Russians and English did. However the Russians had no choice as Hitler wasn't to fond of Russians and English had an advantage of being an island. So I understand the French's actions.

I voted Contact but after readings Cobra Commander explanation. I agree with him. Human are violent by nature even with no real enemies we will make up one (be it human or alien).

So humans find this semi intelligent alien race and the humans have this war industry. The war industry will push towards a war so that they can get more orders.

Well with replicators and anti matter energy and plenty of liveable space (planets) money is useless. However I think you do know people that do work for free, just look at the open source people. And I think most scientists and musicians would do there work in their spare time. So its not that an alien thought.

However you will get people strugling instead of for more money for more power and influence.

I do understand that the NASA has a limited budget. So it has to be very specific were to spend its money.

However it’s my idea that the colonies would become self-sufficient. So the only "things" that they need from Earth are humans and knowledge. So it will cost NASA nothing to operate the Mars base except perhaps sending the initial base.

The self sufficient Mars colony could then work towards expanding. It can by putting all its time and resources into building these space stations and more buildings on Mars. As it has no national defense, police force or other expenses that the US has it should not be a problem. Another reason why it’s possible because there is no money or private property in the initial Mars colony fase.  So all work done by the sciencetists, astronauts, engineers and mechanics is for free. Ok they may receive a salary on Earth but that’s not a big issue. I don't even think you need to pay them a salary (if they don't have family on Earth) as long as they get to do what they want they are happy. If they got family on Earth pay them $100.000 a year.

Launch those space stations from Mars and there you have a practically free space station.

You could use it to mine resources that are lacking on Mars. Such as Nitrogen.

 
Well if you think about the x-prize, then you could use one of competitor’s ships to launch people to orbit and from there have them put on a Earth – Mars ship. It should be cheaper.

No comment

No as I think they should receive corporate funding from companies in for instance the semiconductor industry and pharmacy.

Please don't think that I want to establish some kind of communist state on Mars. It's just that those first people on Mars would be working for NASA which is like an engineer working in the Army. He gets his salary and perhaps a promotion if the bridge he build is good but nothing more.

I haven't seen any proof that Mars has life on it or that was ever life on it, then there is proof of life in Venus's history. And the same counts for Jupiters moons.

Which is good and a lot better then sending a bunch of astronauts and sciencetists to do everything. However engineers and mechanics are a specialized trade and at the level of building and repearing the machines. Will they also mine the resources, take a shovel, get on there knees and lay a brick? And at the same time be an engineer/mechanic? Remember we don't have robots yet to do the dirty work.

You are already doing this with the engineers and mechanics. Next thing you want farm engineers working on the food production. This may work in a small colony but they will not have time to build something for future colonist or do any kind of other work.

Well as long as it costs that much to send one human whatever his education to Mars, you will not see many humans on Mars either way. At that cost Mars is just a science outpost.
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You did raise a lot of good points and I do agree with you if you are talking about a science outpost / settelement

You are mistaken on Mars you should have just like on Earth specialized trades. You have people that use the machines, people that repeair, people that build them and people that design them. The inmates would be in the using and in some degree repairing class.

About the space suites. They are not like the space suites like they use on the space shuttle. So a better name would be Mars suites. And what’s so hard about wearing a mars suite? You got a leak? Then use duct tape. Basically just a document about what to in case of an emergency. Even mine workers and construction workers need to wear protective clothing and have some procedure in case of an emergency.

Airlocks and nuclear powerplants. Well they don't need to know how to build them. You will have specialized crews for them.

Let me give you an example relating to a documentary I saw recently. It was about the building of the Hoover dam and tunnel between England and France. Do you really think that all construction workers knew how to handle the heavy machinery and knew exactly what they were doing? Do you really think that construction workers working on the Hoover dam knew about every detail about the Hoover dam? I would think it's more like blow up these rocks, drill and pore cement, repeat the steps.

Again, you don't need workers that know everything like on earth. Or else why isn't a politician also doing a bypass on his wife, while doing the checkout at his local shop and after that cleaning his house?

A good point and you will need people to mine the resources for those machines. From what I understand you want the sciencetists to do this. Remember unlike in Red Mars (the book) there are no autonomous machines.

Well we are talking about colonizing Mars. If only scientists or the very rich can go to Mars as the cost are too high. It will not be a colony. It would be like now on the ISS. I'm talking about an era just before colonization. Were people are going to move to Mars in great masses or we (the governments) want them to.

The day that I see scientists and the filthy rich getting their hands dirty working on buildings, roads and in mines on Earth. Is the day your arguments make sense.

What the heck are they going to do? Sabotage? Then they will die as they depend on the infrastructure them selfs.

Well slave labour. Its like the chaingangs or dismantling computers or doing helpdesk support (which prisoners already do). Remember this is all voluntary and about giving a second chance.

I'm not about sending psychopaths but people that reconize they were wrong in their crime(s).

I think that isn't doesn't take a lot if training. As much training as it takes to work in a mine on Earth. Just a list of do's and don'ts. And basically you will use the same Earth machines on Mars for doing construction.

I think we should all just talk in binary.

I'm sorry but I don't really believe that story about the the Chinese think in long term. I mean Mao killed a lot of people in his five years plans.

And also the NASA's new exploration plan or even its general plan is not based on today or tomorrow its has long view like any good government has.

I think you are making some mistakes here. Science is not a religion so there is no following only facts and proove.

If you follow a scientist he is your priest although its not an offical religion but it to you it is.

You can't believe in scientists, believing is something personal, scienctists are about non argumental facts which have nothing to do with believing he is wrong or right. Like look here we have some really big bones that don't look like any mammals we know. Or the Earth is round proven by this fact/calculation or the sun is the center because of this fact and that fact. Were comes believing in this?

I read on some atheist site the comment / statement that religion was created to control people and it looks like that to me. However some people are now looking to science as some kind of religion. Like sciencetology is doing.

Russians killed their space shuttle program a long time ago. At least they have their priorities straight. And they of course are smart enough to let the US pay for the Russian part in the ISS  .