Random Thoughts About the FAR Future - Which copyrighted movie will it be like?

Mad Grad Student · 2004-05-13 22:36:00

There's been a lot of discussion recently about what life will generally be like in the FAR future, after we've apparently discovered aliens and can hang with them. I'm talking about WAY, WAY out there, as in 20,000-25,000+ years from now. Which of the above copyright-protected movies do you think life, for analogy's sake, will most resemble? Here are the choices I could think of:

Star Trek: We boldly head out of our little sturdy G-type-star-ruled neighborhood and discover new, intelligent civilizations. We then universally become basically good people, who will work dilligently for the good of the galaxy (United under the Federation of Systems [Based at, oh, Bernard's Star, why not]) without any pay, because money doesn't exist anymore. I personally find this unlikely, because very few people I know would work very hard without a real, hard incentive in front of them. Also, while Gene Roddenberry created a very likeable, wonderful universe that I'd love to live in, it comes off a little idealisitcally. Whatev.

Star Wars: Personally, I'm no fan of these movies. The physics are bad enough to make any college physics student find either of the trilogies funnier than Austin Powers, and there are plotholes you could drive a truck through. But, let's put that aside for a moment. Minus those qualities, the Star Wars universe is the one I find most likely for the far future, and would be the most interesting to live in. Entrepenuring corporations find quick, cheap, dirty menas of getting out of the Sol System, and humans soon colonize a good part of our local Galactic countryside. As we expand outward, we find amazing new races, often their technology is boring and stupid. Sometimes it allows us to accomplish miracles. A huge amount of homoginization occurs, on any given planet you might find a dozen different races hanging out, developing important stuff, and most importantly creating scenes like all the bars on Tatoonie. In the real Star Wars movies, that's where everyone always seems to be.

Starship Troopers: Highly unlikely, but let's get some variety here. When we venture into the cosmos we find weird new alien life that becomes highly hostile towards us. Soon an interpanetary war breaks out, our very future depending on winning it. So as we make our splash into the real Galaxy, we do so guns blazing in typical tribal warfare. Yawn, next entry.

Contact: This one has the advantage that we don't have to do a whole lot. In the future we are contacted by a benevolent, more powerful civilization focused on uniting the galaxy into a collective of general knowledge. Soon we're absorbed into the rest of the Galaxy and fan out, contributing to the effort of the greater good. Carl Sagan fans vote here.

Deep Impact: Basically a joke choice, just there for show. The universe is out to get humanity and we all die in some great future catastrophe. We're supposedly left thinking, "if this had happened 50,000 years ago we never would have become a civilization, if it had happened 500 years from now, we wouldn't have to worry about it, oh the irony!" Well, at least you get to admire a 6,000 foot supersonic wall of water before you die, in select Atlantic cities, while supplies last. Vote here if you don't care about this topic.

Discuss:

Trebuchet · 2004-05-13 23:26:54

My choice was Star Wars, not because of any inherent realism in the show, but because Star Wars was full of crooks, scheming politicians, weird mystics, and the like, had spacecraft that actually looked used, and didn't magically change human nature or unite us all under one banner. It fails on science. But on human nature, it's head and shoulders above Star Trek.

Given the chance to pick one or the other, though, I'd probably pick Star Trek. You can't beat holodecks and replicators for material convenience, and there's enough interesting stuff to see to keep anyone occupied. Give me a starship with those two things and I think I'd never stop wandering the Federation.

Palomar · 2004-05-14 05:40:13

*For the FAR future? Probably something Star Trek-ish. Not just because I like the original show. It has human nature, science and advancement (obviously), etc. Yes, a bit on the idealistic side...and I doubt there are many aliens out there to begin with. As if magnetars, black holes, space debris, and other assorted deadly things (including objects which emit hellish levels of radiation) won't be enough for a space-faring race to contend with. :-\ And if you're gonna be cooped up in a flying tin can with a bunch of people there's going to have to be a certain level of reasonable people exhibiting a bit of benevolence and social graces onboard as well or it'll wind up a flying coffin.

***
In the nearer future (not that I intend to try and take the thread off-topic, but it's 5:40 a.m., I typed the below first in my response, then saw Mad Grad is projecting us 20- to 25,000 years [!] into the future and so added the above and pushed this down), think of a cross between "Bladerunner" (the more human nitty-gritty, ethical quandries aspects [except I think the future on Earth will still have *a bit* of sunlight in it! Unlike that generally dark movie set]) and the book "Rendezvous with Rama" (scientific advancement, humans moving out into the Solar System with successful initial colonization of some planets and moons, etc.).

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2004-05-14 08:21:30

I picked "Starship Troopers." Forget the whole bug war thing, I'm looking at the social and political structure.

A large, multi-system Federation with an entirely human population, connected in large part through a bloated military establishment. Wasteful, yet strangely effecient government combining the best aspects of a republic and fascism.

From a socio-political standpoint, that seems the most workable of the choices. Trying to maintain control in a "Star Wars" type setting... you'd need a few of those Death Stars. And Star Trek, well, I like the show but I don't recognize that race that claims to be from Earth.

Though if you really get down to it, the difference between the "Star Trek" and "Starship Troopers" visions is really only one of presentation.

Palomar · 2004-05-14 08:31:30

From a socio-political standpoint, that seems the most workable of the choices. Trying to maintain control in a "Star Wars" type setting... you'd need a few of those Death Stars. And Star Trek, well, I like the show but I don't recognize that race that claims to be from Earth.

*Well geez, Cobra. Give us some time **to evolve more**, will you? We're still a very young race of beings. Wisdom will come with age (...hopefully).

Hmmmm...time to transport a huge bunch of bunny wabbits into someone's engine room...

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2004-05-14 08:42:07

*Well geez, Cobra. Give us some time **to evolve more**, will you? We're still a very young race of beings. Wisdom will come with age (...hopefully).

Someone once said, and I'm paraphrasing, that the advantages of being a pessimist are that you're usually right and when you're wrong you can be happy about it.

But either option involves a heavily militarized, expansionist society growing at the expense of others. Yes, even Star Trek... all those minor cultures getting smeared over with the Terran variety. "Federation," it's insidious...

I'm doing my part.

Josh Cryer · 2004-05-14 08:50:47

They haven't made a movie about how I think the far future will be like, because it would require special effects far beyond our current capabilities. It's called The Culture, by Iain Banks. In it, society is a mix between human, drones, and minds; humans and drones have level 1.0 intelligence, and minds essentially have unlimited intelligence.

The justification for this is that humans are heading in a direction where higher intelligence is inevitable, so you're going to have really smart beings somewhere along the lines. Slingularitarians claim within 30 years we'll have unlimited intelligence.

I believe that a military type society (like Star Trek or Starship Troopers- yes, I agree with Cobra, they're similar- you don't see everyone sitting on the bridge as equals, that much is certain) is just going to wind up being inefficient.

Palomar · 2004-05-14 08:51:39

*Well geez, Cobra. Give us some time **to evolve more**, will you? We're still a very young race of beings. Wisdom will come with age (...hopefully).
Someone once said, and I'm paraphrasing, that the advantages of being a pessimist are that you're usually right and when you're wrong you can be happy about it.
But either option involves a heavily militarized, expansionist society growing at the expense of others. Yes, even Star Trek... all those minor cultures getting smeared over with the Terran variety. "Federation," it's insidious...
I'm doing my part.

*I get the feeling Cobra's not grooving along on the cosmic love vibes... :band:

--Cindy :laugh:

(Sorry...back on topic)

Cobra Commander · 2004-05-14 09:07:05

*I get the feeling Cobra's not grooving along on the cosmic love vibes...

I'm just hearing a different tune, is all.

Ever heard Metallica play the "Imperial March..."

DanielCook · 2004-06-04 13:28:09

While I selected "Deep Impact" (hey - its gonna happend someday ... and statistically speaking, we're overdue ...), I would like to mention that, even though "Starship Troopers" was a bit cartoonish and oversimplified, the general universe created by Robert A. Heinlein (in his books) offers a very intersting take on a future for mankind ...

PurduesUSAFguy · 2004-06-04 14:16:37

I selected Starship Troopers (I take it to mean the book and not the movie )

I think Heinleins vision of the future, and the role of the military in society was absolutley stunning, I can really see things going that direction after we finally put away the childish play things of socialism and liberalism.

smurf975 · 2004-06-04 14:57:19

I voted Contact but after readings Cobra Commander explanation. I agree with him. Human are violent by nature even with no real enemies we will make up one (be it human or alien).

So humans find this semi intelligent alien race and the humans have this war industry. The war industry will push towards a war so that they can get more orders.

We then universally become basically good people, who will work dilligently for the good of the galaxy (United under the Federation of Systems [Based at, oh, Bernard's Star, why not]) without any pay, because money doesn't exist anymore. I personally find this unlikely, because very few people I know would work very hard without a real, hard incentive in front of them.

Well with replicators and anti matter energy and plenty of liveable space (planets) money is useless. However I think you do know people that do work for free, just look at the open source people. And I think most scientists and musicians would do there work in their spare time. So its not that an alien thought.

However you will get people strugling instead of for more money for more power and influence.

Gennaro · 2004-06-04 16:27:02

Must say that Cobra puts it most eloquently. There is no reason to suppose that democracy is the highest stage on the Hegelian staircase. As soon as a society settles for the 'eternal model', reality and history tends to move on outside or in stealth. Still, I believe the poster mentioned something like 20'000 years from now and that's an entirely different arrow towards a distant shore (Nietzsche).

I doubt such a distant potential future can even be imagined, let alone described (hey, I seem to be heaping mounds of platitudes here!). If Mad Grad had said something like 1,786 years hence (to be exact) or 2,300 annums, I might have found it easier to fit it into one of the options.
As it stands, we might consider ourselves lucky even to filter out the specifically human in the setting. For a comparison, although it likely does no justice, what would be the chances of a stone age hunter/gatherer to translate modern society in terms that made sense to him?

In any case, I probably lean more towards the groovy "cosmic love vibes" on this one. Where are the material needs to drive warfare in such a vast universe of untold riches for everyone, I ask?
Humankind changes with the conditions of society, it's not only technology and society which changes in itself.

Star Wars in a way is perhaps the closest, but maybe something on the lines of the camp classic "Barbarella, Queen of the Galaxy" would come even closer?

smurf975 · 2004-06-04 16:29:44

I also want to add that the poster forgot one option and that is: Indepence Day / War of the World e.g. were the aliens invade the Earth.

Shaun Barrett · 2004-06-05 02:17:16

I haven't actually voted because I don't know what to think in this case. 20,000 to 25,000+ years into the future is a very long time in terms of human culture.
The last neanderthal is believed to have died about 30,000 years ago (maybe a bit less), so Mad Grad's projection into the future covers a time span sufficient, if we go backwards instead of forwards, to take in the last survivor of a whole different sub-species of human!

I think Gennaro's take on the subject is the most penetrating so far. We're trying to judge what may eventuate on the basis of how we think today, which is probably a futile effort given the changes we're likely to undergo in that time. Remember, Star Trek is set only 3 or 4 centuries hence; not 250 centuries!
Gennaro mentions the fact that energy, raw materials and planetary real estate should, and probably will, be freely available to all long before we get to Mad Grad's brave new world of the far future. Struggling to survive will be a forgotten phase of human history and the accumulation of wealth, for its own sake, will be as incomprehensibly antiquated as offering human sacrifices to the rain-god is today.

I forget the actual wording used but Arthur C. Clarke once remarked that the definition of a truly civilised man or woman is a person who can keep him/herself fully occupied and happy when the need to work is removed.
Being an optimist, I believe technology will, sooner rather than later, free us all forever from the need to worry about basic necessities and material wealth. After that happens, and the transition may well be tumultuous, humans will become like a whole species of 18th century gentlemen of independent means(! ) - studying nature, exploring philosophies, dabbling on the cutting edge of science and technology!

How we choose to organise that society is too difficult to imagine, though something close to Josh's anarchic ideal may have become practicable at last!
It's as difficult for us to anticipate the lifestyle of 'them' as it would have been for the last neanderthal to anticipate our lifestyle today.
I don't know that they've made a movie yet which is prescient enough to even come close, so I think I'll chicken out and sit on the sidelines.
:laugh:

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-05 15:23:09

Another factor worth considering is that progress isn't constant. The occasional setback, regression and Dark Age might be factored in.

It's not outside the realm of possibility that thousands of years hence human civilization will be less advanced than it is today. We've regressed significantly before. The next time wouldn't be the first.

dicktice · 2004-06-06 13:45:54

Lucky to get by this century, if we don't get ourselves off this vulnerable planet!

Gennaro · 2004-06-06 18:30:14

It's not outside the realm of possibility that thousands of years hence human civilization will be less advanced than it is today. We've regressed significantly before. The next time wouldn't be the first.

In the realm of possibility but not within the realm that we can allow.
:;):

Previously though, the dark ages have been overcome rather swiftly, depending on your time scale. The fall of Rome was largelly remedied by the 11th century. Technologically, antiquity was surpassed by then.

Maybe we could arrange some sort of future time line?
What about this?

2026 - Breakthrough of D-T fusion, enabling fusion power plants, but not very useful for space flight.

2032 - First manned mission to Mars.

2040's - Renewed space race between the world's great powers commences (United States, Imperial Europe, Russia, Red China and the Pacific League).

2042 - First succesful launch of SSTO.

2048 - First Mars-Terra cycler operational.

2057 - First child born on Mars.

2063 - Lunar observatory established.

2065 - Rich platinum layers discovered on the moon within impact generated mafic/ultramafic complexes. Sets off Lunar mining rush.

2080's - Interplanetary colonization and commerce begins to mature and integrate. Triangle trade Terra-Mars-Main Belt-Terra. The first human presence feelers in the outer solar system.

2088 - Breakthrough of D-D fusion. The era of fusion propulsion begins in earnest.

2094 - International Mars Terraformation treaty.

2115 - Launch of first unmanned interstellar fusion probe towards Alpha Centauri (8% lightspeed).

2121 - Breakthrough for D-He3 fusion.

2130's - The gasgiants turn into the Gulf of the solar system. Permanent settlements related to the He3 extraction operation established on Saturnian moons.

2170 - Initial fusion probe reaches Alpha Centauri.

2228 – First actual Antimatter Spaceship. Large scale interstellar expansion now a realistic possibility.

2298 - Alpha Centauri settled by humans (2nd planet of Alpha Centauri A).

Late 2400's - Human presence extends out to 20 ly and spans 10 major star systems, albeit to very varying degrees (Alpha Centauri, 61 Cygni, Epsilon Indi, Tau Ceti, Omicron Eridani, 70 Ophiuchi, Eta Cassiopeiae, 36 Ophiuchi, 82 Eridani and Delta Pavonis).

2668 – Humans meet ET.

What do you think? If you like, please add, re-arrange and make up your own if you prefer. Chime in!

jadeheart · 2004-06-07 16:36:21

What about asimov's future history? You know, galactic empire, wholesale terraformation, all that? And, he used the same timeframe as here, ~25kY. Of course, he also constructed a galaxy devoid of alien life, which i think is pretty unrealistic.

nobody addresses the ultra-negative option of human extinction here either. i think that should be a choice in the poll. i'd vote for that one depending on what kind of day i'm having.

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