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#251 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Space Ring to Stop Global Warming? » 2005-06-28 20:03:04

I got an idea which is much cheaper. Build alot of trees near the Sahara makes sure they grow properly. Then slowly build more trees into the desert it's self.
We lose the desert and create another big carbon sink like the amazon rainforest.

#252 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Revolution - Which side are you on? » 2005-06-28 19:53:57

This is bull shit and i will explain it in bullet points.

1: I'm a muslim and i can tell you there will never be a muslim empire beacuse muslim like Christians are divided by there nationality more then they are unified by there religon. Has there ever been a United Christian Kingdom of Europe after the fall of the Byzantine Empire?

2: Second Muslim Empire? Why the hell is it second?

3: Did you know that Islam is the fastest growing Religon? If the trend continues there will be more muslims then other Religon. So there will be alot of muslims in the west

4: America? Are you kidding? America is beginning to lose a grip of its superpower status especially know when China is growing fast.

5: Mars will not take bull shit from any country. Mars will be to far for a USA to properly exert there force on and by the time they can we will be a soverigen world that can have 6 months to get ready to beat space weary soldiers.

6: The War on Terror is ending. Iraq is a big disaster. All it did was waste the budget of the USA and give osama bin laden more reqruits.

#253 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Communism - Just like Star Trek » 2005-06-27 18:53:56

There have been different wages for different kinds of labor in real communism, too.
The problem is that strong government of yours will also be run by people and chances are they will be the most corrupt, selfish of all.
Then a doctor will still receive 5 times as much as a janitor, but government officials will be incredibly more powerful compared to that, because they make the rules, they are sitting "by the fire", where the money is distributed from.

The corruption of the government can only last for few years then because the people vote for there leaders. There can be an independent watchdog that can take emergency power if the government is suspect of foul play in it's core.

#254 Re: Terraformation » Mars Magnetic Fields Problem » 2005-06-27 16:03:53

Why don't we drill into the core and detonate nukes just like the movie The Core.

#255 Re: Terraformation » Mars Needs Nitrogen » 2005-06-27 15:34:39

One question. Is there an asteroid small enough but has enough ammonia to produce the neccessary nitrogen to give is the minimum milibars needed or even 1 bar with out taking years (with that i mean 10+ years) for everything to happen.

#256 Re: Civilization and Culture » Protien Sources for First Colonies - An idea » 2005-06-27 15:14:30

You don't need fish. All you need is an algae called Chlorella.

When dried, Chlorella is about 45 percent protein, 20 percent fat, 20 percent sugar, and 10 percent various minerals and vitamins.

We can feed it by giving our waste product. The amazing thing with this is it is a miracle food. It has alot of health benfits and it can remove toxic materials in our body like mercury or uranium.

You can find out more about it here.
http://tuberose.com/Chlorella.html]http … rella.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorella] … /Chlorella

#257 Re: Civilization and Culture » Children growing up on Mars - ..problems and possible solutions... » 2005-06-27 15:03:45

Umm hello everyone forgot about the simple things that all astronauts know. Heavy boots and exerising. I read somewhere that when you exerise you put the stress of your body increases 6 times or something like that. Has soon has kids can run we force them to run alot to make then healthy. We can also give them Lead  boots or other heavy boots and tell teach them to always have a good posture.

The food main food source for everyone would be Chlorella. This algae when dried is 45 percent protein, 20 percent fat, 20 percent sugar, and 10 percent various minerals and vitamins. It also has high amounts of chlorophyll so it photosynthesis ability is really good. We would feed it by giving it our waste has someone has mentioned. It is better to eat of from plants then animals has less energy is lost.

#258 Re: Civilization and Culture » An Ethics Exam for Mars Citizenship - If you were rejected, what would you do? » 2005-06-27 14:37:39

There should be an exam that governs the people who are elliglbe to come. The tests will be

Can they speak english properly?
Are they Fit?
Are they to old?
Are they disabled?
Are they mentally stable? (Less crazy people and murders/rapers)
Do they have any anger problems?
Do they have any uncurable contagious diease? (This question is about dieases that can spread in anyway and form. Other dieases that are allowed is Alzheimer's or Parkinson's cause they can't spread.)

If all of these are added into the test then the people leaving to live in Mars will be assured that the worst bunch have been picked out and that they won't get infected

Start out with a group of all the "best" people and leave the "undesirables" behind. I have serious problems with this kind of plan, but anyway it's not going to work. These people will reproduce and not all their sons and daughters will be model martian children. Human nature being essentially the same everywhere, the population will soon become like any other. Human nature includes strong elements of anger, violence, greed, etc. as well as of fairness, caring, love, etc. The best chance of success is to have a culture that tends to bring out the best in people and that promotes thinking.

I doubt there will be an exam for Mars citizenship, because I doubt there will be any such thing as Mars citizenship. I certainly hope that no single group controls immigration. You immigrate to a settlement based on its immigration laws. Or you get a group of people together and start your own settlement. If you have a ship that can take you to Mars or a ticket on one, you should have the right to go. And if a settlement there will take you, they should have that right. I hope for a Mars where most things are done at the local (city-state) level. It's more efficient and more in touch with the needs of the people. You simply need some treaties to keep the cities from fighting and to protect basic human rights.

With just one Martian government there's too little chance to start over or try new things.

It is easier to controll bad people from coming in. If you stop people with HIV from going to mars then there won't be any HIV in mars. If you stop people coming in with other form of contagius and uncureable dieases then there won't be any there. Yes there might be new dieases and the "bad" people will be born. Does that mean we should still let them come? If we don't let them come then it it will be easier to deal with the ones that are created.
Also Treaties won't stop cities from attacking each other. There has to be a governing body to stop them attacking each other.

I know from personal experience that shrinks can't do anything if you play them... they need you to work with them.

If you don't work with them then you won't come.

#259 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Communism - Just like Star Trek » 2005-06-27 14:30:36

Oh i made a mistake.

The Levels won't depends on how much education the person has and if they are doing a job that will benifit the society

It was meant to be will depend not won't depends.

On a more basic level, if these "wage scales" are applied to all endeavors the primary incentive for innovation will be removed. People work hard, take risks and improve upon old ways of doing things for essentially one reason, to profit themselves. Lock them into a rigid scale and why will anyone bust their butt?

Cause this idea is Half Capitalism and Half Communism. This won't make people poorer beacuse the harder they work the more credits they will get. More credits will allow them more food,more items and stuff like that. But the it is controlled by the government. In countries like America or UK it's hard for people to get rich beacuse they will be things that will hamper them. So the easiest way is to win a lottery or win a reality tv show.

#260 Re: Civilization and Culture » An Ethics Exam for Mars Citizenship - If you were rejected, what would you do? » 2005-06-27 03:44:31

then the people leaving to live in Mars will be assured that the worst bunch have been picked out

Very KSR, turns out everybody lied on the test. Because, nobody sane wants to go to Mars, you really have to have something broken in you sub-concious.

You know shrinks are not easily fooled?

#261 Re: Mars Society International » How far have you come? » 2005-06-26 19:07:01

Oh i get it. So in other words he is trying to convice NASA to see that going to Mars is possible NOW and better then going to orbit all the time.

#262 Re: Planetary transportation » Trains on Mars - Could a rail system provide martian need » 2005-06-26 18:59:05

Trains would be great. They could link Mega Cities with each other and the mega cities could trade each other for what they need and don't need.

#263 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Antimatter - More viable than fusion? » 2005-06-26 18:55:05

The CERN facility will be open in 2007. If the GRID system works (another version of SETI@Home) they will be able to find out more things about Antimatter may be increasing the efficiency of creating it.

#264 Re: Civilization and Culture » An Ethics Exam for Mars Citizenship - If you were rejected, what would you do? » 2005-06-26 18:40:34

There should be an exam that governs the people who are elliglbe to come. The tests will be

Can they speak english properly?
Are they Fit?
Are they to old?
Are they disabled?
Are they mentally stable? (Less crazy people and murders/rapers)
Do they have any anger problems?
Do they have any uncurable contagious diease? (This question is about dieases that can spread in anyway and form. Other dieases that are allowed is Alzheimer's or Parkinson's cause they can't spread.)

If all of these are added into the test then the people leaving to live in Mars will be assured that the worst bunch have been picked out and that they won't get infected

#265 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Communism - Just like Star Trek » 2005-06-26 18:32:20

However, I think all this is going a bit off topic, so let's not hijack Stormrage's thread too much, okay? smile

I just happy that people are in my thread and taking some of the things seriously.

Here is what i am thinking of. A sorf of Modern day society/Communist.

We will have a 5 level system. Each level will give a person a certain amount of credits which is the money. This will allow us to get stuff from the local shops/convenient depot. The Levels will depend on how much education the person has and if they are doing a job that will benifit the society. Like street cleaning or being a doctor.
The work indusry will be divided into three.

Law enforcment (Military,Police and Lawyers)
Science Department (Doctors,Researchers,Scientist)
Operations (Public transport driver,Teacher,Asteroid mining)

We can derive our energy source by mining Asteroid making sure we won't pollute our world like we did on Earth. We can also research into quick DNA scanners installed on Front doors of houses (it won't record the DNA of people living there). The DNA scanners can also be fitted into other areas of the City to make sure that tourists who visit us won't stay longer then they are allowed.

Why do i think this idea is better then the present society we have today?

Today's society especially in amercia. Big companies can controll what law passes through by funding a political candidate. If that candidate is elected he would will do what the companies want to do. Capitalism gives most of the wealth to the few groups of people who managed to climb the wealth ladder succesfully. In my kinda society everyone is equal. If the Martian world government didn't want anyone to do pollute the environment by  they won't be pressured by big corporations.

This kinda Idea will only work in Mars. In a Earth today No single country will do this and it will only work if all country join together. Countries don't trust each other. Sure UK and USA are best of friends but are we the british and the americans willing to join into a single country? No beacuse National pride will be in the way.

#266 Re: Mars Society International » How far have you come? » 2005-06-25 16:41:21

I'm sorry if there is a similar thread. I couldn't find it. I want to know how far you guys have come to realise the Mars Direct idea. Did you guys get the money you needed to implement your ideas or was the whole thing about getting NASA and ESA do it instead?

#267 Re: Terraformation » Projected Marsian Population? » 2005-06-25 16:35:17

Correct. As much as I feel for people in various severely screwed up places in the world, I can't quite shake the feeling that not much ever changes. You only get new flavors of Megalomaniac of the Month and more misery. In darker moments of depression, I sometimes feel that we should build a big wall, literally or figuratively, and let Darwin solve our problems, primarily because of the following unpleasant logic.

1) If you send money, medicine, or food, it gets stolen and sidetracked.
2) If you send money, medicine, or food, and aid workers to prevent it from getting sidetracked, they let the aid workers distribute it... then take it away later.
3) If you send some soldiers too, then you have a war on your hands, and you will always have a sizeable chunk of the population who reflexively fight 'the invaders', even though said invaders are hellbent on helping them despite themselves.
4) If you kill Dictator-of-the-Month, other countries will throw a shit fit and generally be pains in the ass and generally obstruct any further humanitarian crises.

Correct
Correct
Correct
And Correct (i guess you ment Iraq. Its the terrorists that are making the fuss not the people).

Idiocy is something that will never be bred out of Humans.

1 Person = On average can be smart
A  Group = Are plain stupid. Don't even try to reason. One simple thing can turn them into a mob.

#268 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Communism - Just like Star Trek » 2005-06-25 16:28:49

A bad idea never stopped anyone.

Russian Communism failed under paranoid leasership and general execution of intellectuals as the enemy of the poor people.

Well My Mars Communism is promoting more scientists and if anyone is enemy of the planet we could just deport them to Earth.

#269 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Communism - Just like Star Trek » 2005-06-25 16:12:14

That would increase the number of people over average.

If everyone gets smarter then the average will rise and these smart people will not be above average then.

That system didn't work out too well here on Earth, I'm ...eehm ... somewhat sceptical about it.
Wht
Based on these last postings I have some doubts that the colonists will make it to Mars with all the commies and facsists beating up each other in the colony transport enroute.

I ment the average of today here on earth. The only reason why the Russia communism didn't work out was because they spent all of there resources on military technology and forgot about there citizens.

Why would Facists and commies fight each other? Fighting in a space ship is a REALLY REALLY stupid idea.

#270 Re: Terraformation » Projected Marsian Population? » 2005-06-25 15:01:32

This may offend some of you but this is true. I'm a immigrant to United Kingdom. I came here has a child so i am utterly western. My mum isn't though. When i speak to her i notice one thing about them. They are STUPID (sorry if that offends you).


1: While we in Europe are suffering from a fertility crises (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4112450.stm]BBC infertility time Bomb) the undeveloped countries are happily having multiple children they can not afford to raise.

2: There is an Aid crisis in there country YET they still have sex with people who have Aids without protection. That is stupid you shouldn't even have sex with anyone who has aids with a condom.

Aids could blow away in 30 years. All we have to do is make sure that the infected people don't spread it. When they die the disease  dies with them. Alternativity you  can help find a cure for it by running a seti like program. http://fightaidsathome.scripps.edu/]FightAids@Home

We shouldn't use huge amount of money on Poor countries beacuse most of them can help them self if it wasn't for corruption in their government. Did you know for Every pound given to the tsunami funds only a penny was spent by the governments to help the poor people who suffered?
The rest ended up in the pockets of the rich.

Money wasted. If people wanted to help themselves and had the true desire then they would do have been able to do so just like Japan.

#271 Re: Pictures of Mars » Northern lights pics allowed? » 2005-06-25 14:07:31

Man i wish i could have seen a Northen Lights. Stuck in London sad. It is impossible to even look at the stars properly. The Light pollution is serious here.

#272 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Communism - Just like Star Trek » 2005-06-25 13:48:48

If we ever plan to colonise and do succeeded we can't turn it into what America and UK are today. Big corporate companies running around and doing what ever they want while the poor people have to suffer. We should be more like the Federation of Star Trek who are communist. Everyone get what all they need and the only thing to do in your spare time is to pursue knowledge. That would increase the number of people over average.

Well not begin to communist we can have democratic votes every 5 years but not like we have today. The politicians won't go on TV smearing slander on each others. They just state what they are going to do and nothing else. We will also be separate from Earth and won't take any orders from any country. Everyone living in Mars won't be British,american but humans (Martian is name for species native to mars).

That way mars won't be divided into pieces like Antarctica.

A horrible end to the teraforming is if a single country claims Mars (namely USA/Russia).

#273 Re: Terraformation » energy on mars (electricity, motors, etc) - types of energy to use on Mars » 2005-06-25 10:25:37

There are alot of asteroid between Mars and Jupiter. Maybe one of them have the elementals we need. Like Carbon,Iron or Antimatter (would be a dream if we could find a natural source of it)

#274 Re: Terraformation » Polluting Mars - Good idea? » 2005-06-25 10:19:20

This just came to me while i was watching and episode of Star Trek:TNG True Q. It was about a world that was heavily polluted. What is the one thing that humans are good at? Polluting.

We can send robots that will pollute the planet until is thick enough. We can then make the plant suitable for human life by planting thousands of plant that have been gentically engineered that would produce more oxygen. We can get water for the plants by melting the ice caps.

Would this plan be viable?

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