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John Creighton,

I explained the moons difference in velocity to the earths.
Yes moon and earth have a different time due to different speeds in space.

Didn't ask if you asked about it, just pointed it out.

No one has detected a gravity time distortion, you are quoting time distortions on a plane compared to ground speed.

Usefulness of a sentence about time/space depends on the reader.
I put it in simple terms for easy understanding.
If that didn't make sense then i should have made it easier to understand.

You don't need to decide anything John.
All the universal questions are already answered arnt they ?
No need to even attempt to understand anything you don't like.

All i did was to try to point out that gravity might not act in the universe the way we would like it to.

No need to be rude, if you don't like the idea just say that.
But don't be a dork for no reason or because you don't like the idea without thought or it threatens your understanding.
That is the hallmark of a closed mind.

doah

John Creighton,

I had a pretty bent mind to begin with, so it was easy for me to bend it a little bit more

It does make some sense that if gravity is just time distortion then it need not violate any laws to influence anywhere instantly, when gravity  doesn't actually move or feel time.

At least its better than a seamless hole or ftl

MarsDog,

Quote:
(Stealth aircraft is not a void because it absorbs radiation)

Just reflecting properties in a stealth aircraft, but i do understand the analogy you were trying to make.

Simple cause and effect wont work on either black hole or void, neither will transmit or reflect waves, so setting a causality from either will be impossible to define.

Quote:
Inside of a large black hole is where we may be living.
Gravity may be a property of space, not a particle which absorbs.

Yes we are living inside a black hole, and no we are not.
The universe can be in black hole state at one time and expansion or contraction at another time.
Defining if any state is other than just a state of a black hole is unclear.
The universe might just be a repeating black hole cycle activate by other repeating black hole cycles.
It might also only be a black hole universe only until a universal space/time collision starts an expansion, then we exist in an open universe until the collapse at another collision.

Gravity as a property of space, if it was a property of space then shouldn't the expansion happen differently?
Shouldn't an expansion be uniform and follow gravity evenly?

If gravity is a property of matter then the universe should expand clumpy as id does.
Even worse that clumping of mass might not even follow our own universe gravity if multiverse interference is possible.

Quote:

Black holes are not singularities since they have angular momentum,
Still connected to the universe, because spinning without reference is meaningless.
Radiation via particle pair creation and tunneling faster than the speed of light.
Energy from angular momentum transferred to surrounding gas.

A black hole has angular momentum just before its even horizon, all the matter flows down in an accelerating path towards the event horizon.
But why does it spin in one direction?
Does this show that the black hole itself is spinning?
If not how do we account for the spin of the matter in one direction?

Connection to the universe with a black hole is clear from looking at its effects from our space/time,  but inside one the connection is not so clear.
If a black hole is time so compressed as to be infinite then no true connection really exists to our space/time as the black hole is its own space/time.

Voids exist everywhere, just look at the mass in an atom and you will find 99.9% is a void with no properties.
Yet atoms still exist.

Not the best analogy to point out voids, but a good place to show they exist.

cIclops,

I concur, stand way back when creating a black hole

Marsdog,

If you did not have a void for the universe to expand into then it could not expand.
With some set of properties outside the universe the properties inside would be very different.

The void might simply be an area of space that each universe occupies when expanding and contracting.
No universe exists in the void between each universe as it is swept clean by each universe when it contracts.

Each universe bubble has a way to be detected.
Since gravity waves can escape a black hole it makes perfect sense that gravity can also travel past the voids.
Multiverse interference.

If we had a very precise way to measure gravity i bet we would be able to detect stronger readings in different regions of space, all pointing to the edge of our universe.
They would be detecting other universes influencing ours, and maybe just the reason our universe seems to be speeding up as we get closer to the boundary of other universes and gravity becomes stronger between each.

Difficult to say what properties a black hole truly has inside, at best guess it is just a lack of space with a lack of time going with that first property.
The exact opposite of a void.

Been down that road of trying to analyze what a void truly is many times.
I have also come to the conclusion that a void doesn't exist more than once.
If the voids don't exist then it always points me back to how does a universe get to be a black hole universe before the big bang in the first place if voids are non existent.

Without voids a crowding effect or bunching effect should occur over time with each universe slowly getting closer to its neighbor on each expansion.

You've hit on a point about cannibal universes i have wondered about for years.
Is it possible that universes can cannibalize each other like galaxies do?
Are the universe boundaries immovable and unable to merge due to each universes unique time/space, or is the boundary soft and time/space can merge.

A merging cannibal system makes it quite complex to make sense of any boundaries, but no reason exists that cannibal universes cant be the system.

The individual space/time for each universe not allowing mergers is cleaner and simpler, but no reason other than simple for this system.

My feeling is non merging individual space/time bubbles that bounce off each other.
This  makes it simple to explain how a universe in black hole state can start it's expansion, and how the contraction can happen in a universe when collisions take place.

Fun to think about nothing isn't it?

MarsDog,

The void has no properties at all.
Just space without matter or energy or time.
A very bizarre place to think about that occupies volume but consists of nothing.

If we are the only universe that exists then the void exists beyond its edge.
If we live in a black hole (the entire universe as black hole) then the void is just outside that.
If we live in a multiverse then the void is between universes.

If the void had any properties it would eventually form a universe of its own and crowd the existing ones, causing the life of all  universes to decrease on each expansion and contraction.

Since we have no clue how many times our universe has collapsed and expanded we can expect that number to be infinite.

If void space was here forever and had any properties then it also would be full of universes, so void space must also be constantly void forever.

Void space must be the property of the multiverse, just the empty space between universes that only becomes part of a universe as it expands to the void.

The properties or non properties of void space and trying to apply any math to it is very frustrating and difficult to grasp how it can exist without effecting each universe.

If steven is correct about the memory of matter then why cant anyone get any info on the last collapse of this universe that happened  before the big bang and expansion this time?
It was all in one big black hole, but nothing came forward about the previous state with it.

I've yet to see any mysterious beer cans fly past me, well maybe when i was 18.

cIclops,

If we could get a few suns together i bet it would be a devastating event for the local area to create a black hole.
I bet it wouldn't be a seamless transition to a black hole.

To create a black hole you would need to alter a region of space/time.
If you can do that it makes sense that you could alter the space/time around a space ship in a more efficient way to travel.

I don't believe creating a black hole is just a matter of pumping in vast quantities of energy.
A black hole in all sense is simply a region of space that has no space.
A location that has compressed matter so far as to contain no space but all time.

If current black hole theory is followed then black holes should not exist in our universe at all, the collapse of a black hole should continue until they wink out of existence or blow up as they attempt to compress below a certain size where gravity can longer exert a gravitational force, not stop at some imaginary point still in our universe.

black holes are also a theoretical problem onto themselves as they emit gravity waves past a point of singularity.
This emanation of gravity waves itself is a problem in trying to explain the inner working of a black hole as nothing can escape a singularity, but gravity waves do.

Do gravity waves have an ability to escape the singularity because they
are not true waves but simply a distortion of regular space time?

Or do gravity waves escape the singularity because they are dimensional, they simply escape from a different dimension into ours?

Or do gravity waves poses no mass or energy that can be pulled on from the singularity?

Or do gravity waves travel faster than C allowing them to escape the singularity?

Or are gravity waves instantaneous, felt everywhere all across the universe to some degree, everything connected with them all across the universe.?

One of the above must be true.

Why does a black hole not wink out of our universe?
The time in compressed space is also near infinite, as the black hole compresses so does the time inside a black hole.

just my thoughts on the workings of a black hole.

If you are going to create one please answer the gravity wave problem with them, would love a definitive answer.

MarsDog,

I couldn't see your image

I was looking forward to hoover in space also

GCNRevenger,

If we could only make black holes that last a few millions of a second just in front of the space craft then we could travel at any speed we desired.
The pull towards the space craft would be C/mass spacecraft on any black hole creation.

Other than the obvious problems of the black hole destroying the machine that makes them each time one is made, and the problem of creating one in the first place, and the problem of a black hole pulling more on the front of the space craft than on the back.

Guess as soon as someone creates a black hole, the next creation should be an anti black hole to control the black hole.

karov,

The sublimation of co2 from the poles in the summer is the reason i don't think the poles are mostly h20.

The scouring effect of the co2 sublimation should be carrying quantities of h20 all over mars, even if these quantities are small each season the pole should be shrinking if its mostly h20, as deposits of frost settle in areas other than the poles.

No easy to explain mechanism exists to get that frost back to the poles once it makes it to the surface.

Most of mars stays below the freeze point of water all year so whatever is deposited should stay for long periods and just co2 should return to the poles.

Interesting though that in 2004 images of water ice clouds were taken at mars, i didn't know about it.
I didn't even think water ice cloud formation was possible in the rarified Martian atmosphere so some mechanisms can exist i hadn't expected.
Will have to give that some thought on how water ice frost can return to the poles.

The out gassing of mars.
I have to agree 100% on that.
With the energy quantities needed for a Martian teraform its looking like impacts are the only realistic way to attempt a teraform.
How big and what composition and how fast are the questions for the impactors.

MarsDog,

When you make the monster h bomb you could use some real nasty elements we would never think of using that create awful radiation in the middle of mars.

May as well add as much heat and radiation for as long a period as possible if its contained inside mars.