New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: This forum has successfully made it through the upgraded. Please login.
  1. Index
  2. » Search
  3. » Posts by Calliban

#1 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2025-03-28 14:10:40

The Fall of Europe.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/fall-europe

Depressing reading.  But important to read.  The crooks that run Europe are unlikely to relinquish power.  And the damage they have done is largely baked in.  Native youth population will be a minority in just a few decades, due to falling birthrates and uncontrolled immigration.  Trying to discuss the problem in Europe will likely see you arrested and jailed for hate speech.  It certainly will in the UK.  Most countries in Europe have reached the point where they are probably out of time for a political solution.  The rot has gone too far.  By 2050, well within the lifetimes of many readers here, Western European nations will be Islamic republics.  For decades, conservative parties in Europe have begged people to listen and take the danger seriously.  Most people didn't.  They chose to spit on the conservatives, vilify and jail them instead.  Now they sit down to a banquette of consequences.  The story of the European nations ends with the current generation.

#2 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Technological Cumulativeness, (Accumulation). » 2025-03-27 13:36:16

The device uses solar energy to convert ethylene into longer chain hydrocarbons.  Which is good.  But the ethylene must first be manufactured.

#3 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Solar Smelting or Solar Melting » 2025-03-25 12:17:39

Waste materials from ore processing will be mostly silicate rich slag.  A few years back on this forum, we discussed the production of basalt fibres for tensile applications.  The fibres are as strong as maraging steel and weigh less than half as much.  Melting basalt is considerably less energy intensive than smelting steel, because the temperatures involved are more modest (1200°C vs 1600) and chemical reduction is not necessary.  We are melting the material and not chemically reducing it.  If we have enough energy to melt silica rich slags, then the liklihood is that we would find uses for these materials.

#4 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2025-03-25 09:50:53

As America embraces a new age of freedom, the Online Safety Act, passed by the UK's communist, Labour government, pushes the UK further down the path of censorship and oppression.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/bri … licing-law

Leftwing movements always end up being censorous and totalitarian.  This is because they are full of people who are dogedly attached to ideologies.  But the ideas and concepts that they hold dear, tend not to do well on their own merits in the real world.  They depend upon people not asking difficult questions and not talking about failures and obvious contradictions.  So intellectual oppression becomes more and more necessary as leftwing social projects unfold.

It is this more than anything else, that turned me against leftwing politics in the UK before I was even out of my teens.  I don't care how important pet political projects are to the people that believe in them.  If a movement has to imprison or murder people for openly criticising bad ideas, then it clearly is not a force for good in any way.  Leftwing people always seem to be bad people as well.  Emotionally insecure.  Spiteful.  Unable to share a room with people that don't agree with them.  I could see this from quite an early age because I was surrounded by these people.  Even as an adolescent, it was clear to me that they were not people that shoukd be allowed anywhere near power.  They were obsessed with control and viewed personal liberty as a problem that stood in the way of their reworking society.  These movements always promote their authoritarianism as measures designed to protect people.  But this is always the opposite of what they are trying to do.  Leftwing movements are basically evil.  They put cherished ideas above people and always leave a trail of broken lives in their wake.

#5 Re: Meta New Mars » Calliban Postings including links to notable contributions » 2025-03-25 08:47:46

For high compressive strength and low thermal conductivity, I would recommend magnesium oxide.
https://www.azom.com/properties.aspx?ArticleID=54
See also: https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/jres/103/4/j34sli.pdf

Thermal conductivity declines as temperature increases.  As the engine will be operating in vacuum, you could also incorporate porositity to reduce thermal conductivity even further, with some loss of compressive strength.  The thrust of 0.5 tonne-force is a quite modest.  If it is distributed over 1m2, it amounts to a pressure of 5KPa .  So the material probably does not require a lot of strength.  Vibration could be a problem, as magnesium oxide is a brittle ceramic.

#6 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Permenance Movement » 2025-03-25 07:06:07

Richard Vobes visits an old water powered mill in southern England.  Sadly, it is no longer functional.  But much of the original machinery can still be seen.
https://youtu.be/kUjLyTRusSI

If people are serious about using renewable energy to achieve net zero, then direct mechanical harvesting and use of natural kinetic power is the way to do it.  We must minimise the use and need for electricity.  All of the components involved in a mechanical mill are stone, brick, wood, cast iron or steel.  The complexity of the device is minimised.  No rare elements are used.  No copper is needed.

We can actually improve mechanical mills substantially using modern technology, without compromising their advantages.  Gears and other contact surfaces can be made from steel, which reduces frictional energy losses and wear.  Power transmission can make use of hydraulics, rather than rotating line shafts.  This allows more freedom in factory layout, as hydraulic pipes can run under the floor.  It also reduces friction, as heavy shafts are not needed for power transmission.  The waterwheel itself could also be optimised, with a pelton wheel turbine extracting up to 90% of the kinetic energy carried by the water.  Using mechanical power doesn't mean losing efficiency.

Working in this way does mean accepting limitations.  A mechanical mill has to be built where the energy source is located.  It is also incapable of expanding once it is built.  If it is designed to mill 1000 tonnes of grain per year, then that is what it will do and that is all that it will do.  Increasing capacity means building another mill.

Perhaps most limiting of all, the work that a mill can do depends upon the energy available.  There is no means whatever of storing energy for later use.  Work rate must vary with the flow of water or the speed of the wind.  Human life and work culture must adapt to that.  The length of a shift will vary depending upon the weather.  Pay will be variable as well.  I suspect that this will be the most difficult thing for people to accept.  But there will be times of the year where water flow or wind can be expected to be lower.  This is when millers will take holiday.

#7 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Gravity Energy Storage » 2025-03-24 16:39:30

The older I get, the more impressed I am by simplicity.  Maybe it is a sign of mental deterioration?  :-)

This article discusses furnicular railways.
https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2009/ … le-trains/

These are gravity powered cable railways, that are used for transporting people up and down hills.  The simplicity of this idea has always impressed me.  These vehicles do not require any engine.  Motive power is provided by adjusting a counterweight on each vehicle, which is a tank of water.  The ascending train is connected by cable to a descending train.  By filling a water tank at the top of the hill, the descending train is made heavier than the ascending train.  As it descends and applies tension to the cable, it pulls the ascending car up the hill.

Cable driven street trains pre-date the introduction of electricity as a power source.  Before electrification, cable driven public transit systems were built in many cities across the world.  Only a few now survive, with the San Fransisco cable cars being the most famous example.  Any town with a varying gradient could build gravity powered transit networks.  The cable would run through a conduit under the road surface.  It would not need to be powered, as the energy needed would come from filling water tanks in vehicles at the top of the gradient and emptying them at the bottom.  All of the cars are attached to the cable in a loop.  So the gravitational potential energy released by a single car as it descends a gradient will help drive all the other cars around the loop simply by pulling the cable down the slope.

Nothing is free of course.  The energy needed to run the network comes from the gravitational potential energy of water at the top of a hill.  This can be recharged using a pump, to transfer water from a lower reservoir to an upper reservoir.  Provided that the two reservoirs are appropriately sized, this task can be accomplished using intermittent energy.  A mechanical windmill at the top of the hill could drive a positive displacement pump at the bottom, by pulling on a cable.

There are variations in how such a system could work.  A gravity powered cable car could work on completely flat topography, by raising and lowering weights through pits and towers.  Towers could function as raised weight hydraulic accumulators.  Discharged hydraulic fluid would drive turbines, pulling the cable.  A system equipped with multiple towers could recharge them whilst others towers are discharging.

#8 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2025-03-24 09:33:04

There needs to be a negotiated peace in Ukraine.  The country's infrastructure and demographics are shattered.  There is no hope whatever for Ukraine to reclaim conquered territories by force.  They just don't have the manpower to do it.  If fighting continues, the Russians will ultimately crush them through weight of numbers.  But it will cost them dearly in lives, and their own demographics point to an ageing and shrinking population.  So there is certainly hope for a negotiated peace that will save Ukraine as a nation.  Unfortunately, Zelensky isn't interested.  That was made abundantly clear to the whole world during his visit to the white house.  Then again, it isn't his people that are dying every day in this war.  His people are in Isreal.  So I wonder how much he really cares about Ukrainian bodies?

Russia's declining population makes their imperialism, whatever its motives, a short term problem.  Very soon, their manpower resources will be insufficient to launch pre-emptive wars.  The Ukraine war is likely the last such war they will be capable of launching.  The idea that Russia is looking to do what Nazi Germany did in Eastern Europe doesn't hold much credibility.  This is a country that has to rely on North Korean conscripts and Iranian moped drones.  They are technologically backward and have always relied on strength of numbers to win conflicts.  As their population shrinks, even that historical advantage is going away.

#9 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Technological Cumulativeness, (Accumulation). » 2025-03-23 06:46:52

Void wrote:

Ice Slushy Heat Pump: https://undecidedmf.com/why-ice-might-b … f-heating/

Quote:

Why Ice Might Be the Future of Heating
Matt FerrellBy Matt Ferrell and Sunny Natividad 4 days ago

This could have some interesting potentials.  Both for Earth and Mars, and perhaps elsewhere.

One thing I might have in mind is to store the slush.  As in the old days ice used to be stored in sawdust in barns.

If you had a slush reservoir, you could inject the slush from above or from below.

I guess this could use some further thinking.  The British usually don't need much cooling, but in a continental climate, with hot summers and cold winters this might be valuable.

Ending Pending smile

Water has a high heat of fusion due to hydrogen bonding.  This makes a water tank useful as a thermal capacitance for a heat pump.  I don't see the point of trying to pump viscous ice slush.  It would make more sense just storing the ice in a static tank and using the outside air and ground heat to remelt it.

#10 Re: Life support systems » Iron and Steel on Mars » 2025-03-20 09:13:50

Olivine is abundant on Mars and substantially more iron rich that on Earth.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.add8472

Additionally, the Martian crust is basalt dominated and does not experience techtonic recycling.  It is therefore entirely possible that serpentinisation has generated large volumes of hydrogen that are trapped deep underground.

#11 Re: Life support systems » Iron and Steel on Mars » 2025-03-20 06:51:14

I finished reviewing this document last night.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9417644/

The paper is specifically concerned with production of iron nanoparticles, by reducing iron oxide in hydrogen gas at various temperatures and pressures.  At high pressure, it is possible to produce consistant spherical nanoparticles reliably at temperatures <300°C.

For our purposes, reduced iron is a precursor material for production of steel in electric furnaces.  I made a few notes of points that I found interesting.

'A100bar hydrogen pressure is sufficient for complete reduction at temperatures down to 270°C with 3 hours'.

Complete reduction occurs in 3 hours at the following temperature-pressure combinations.
1. 390°C &1bar.
2. 270°C &100bar.
3. 230°C &200bar.
4. 220°C &400bar.
5. 210°C &530bar.

Reaction rate is not a linear function of pressure as I had initially assumed.  But it increases rapidly with increasing temperature.

On Mars, we would apply this method to iron rich regolith.  After the iron is reduced to small metallic particles, it will be removed from silicate contaminants by magnetic separation, after the mixture has been crushed.

The reduction will take place in batches.  Finely milled iron rich regolith would be loaded into baskets.  The baskets will be preheated to ~300°C using solar heat in an oven.  Next, a crane will lift the basket into a pressure vessel, which will be jacketed in a water loop and also maintained at a 300°C.  The pressure vessel will then be sealed.  Solar heat will then be used to boil water, generating steam that drives a piston, forcing hydrogen through a one-way valve into the vessel at ~100bar.  The compression will heat the hydrogen to ~270°C and force it into the iron oxide dust with the basket inside of the pressure vessel.  The water jacket around the vessel will continue heating the vessel and its contents as the hydrogen reacts with the iron oxide producing reduced iron.

After a 3 hour cook time, the vessel is vented to the Martian atmosphere, opened and the basket is removed.  The basket is then allowed to cool and is then emptied onto a conveyor.  The mixed iron and silicate mass is then milled, allowing crude iron powder to be seperated from the silicate slag using an electromagnet.
******

Additional: By my calculations, we need about 10MJ of electrical energy to make sufficient hydrogen to produce 1kg of reduced iron.  The remainder of the energy needs can be met entirely by solar heat in the 270-300°C range.  I havn't calculated how much solar heat will be needed yet.  But I think the liklihood is that we would be looking to build our iron works in a region where there is both a source of natural hydrogen or methane and iron rich ore or regolith.  Iron powder will be converted to steel in an electric furnace close to the base.  So it would be advantageous to build the plant such that it can be packed up and assembled at a suitable site.

#12 Re: Life support systems » Iron Cycle on Mars and other worlds.(Materials Extraction) » 2025-03-19 07:10:04

Void, this is interesting work.  If we can find or engineer aqueous microorganisms that can extract iron oxide from a solute, it would be very valuable.  Mars regolith is about 15% iron oxide on average.  Producing reduced iron from this material means heating a lot of inert and useless solid as well and then removing them from reduced iron by crushing and magnetic separation.  A concentrated iron oxide feedstock would save a lot of energy.  A biomass material with a high percentage iron oxide would even better, because a carbon rich reducing agent is part of the source material.

#13 Re: Meta New Mars » Calliban Postings including links to notable contributions » 2025-03-19 07:01:26

This link provides data on the average composition of Martian soils.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/201 … 005414.pdf

The alkali and alkali earth oxides will not react with hydrogen.  Not sure about the manganese and chromium oxides.  The crude iron that is produced will need to be melted and treated using the basic oxygen process, which will burn off sulphur and phosphorus impurities.  Carbon can be added to reduce melting point.  High carbon cast irons can melt at temperature as low as 1200°C.  There are plenty of direct uses for grey iron.  For high quality steels melting temperature will be 1400 - 1600°C.  The higher end is for low alloy steels and mild steel.  Low alloy steels will dominate demand on Mars.  But cast irons will have significant uses, especially in structures and machine housings.

#14 Re: Meta New Mars » Calliban Postings including links to notable contributions » 2025-03-19 05:32:22

TH, I am so used to papers being behind paywalls, that I hadn't noticed that this one could be downloaded!  I will read it this evening and comment some more.

One property that would be useful in this application is the low thermal conductivity of highly porous metal oxide powders.  Once heat is input into a large pile of Fe2O3 powder, it would take many hours for temperatures in central regions to drop out of the reaction zone.  We could line the interior of the vessel with a refractory powder to increase this effect even more.  So it may be that we can fill the vessel with iron oxide, pressurised it with hydrogen during the day and let it cook overnight.

I agree that smaller vessels will be easier to make than larger ones.  We do have vessels that can sustain pressures of 500MPa.  But the larger the vessel becomes, the more challenging its construction becomes.

It is worth noting that this technology, if it proves to be practicable, would produce a crude iron powder.  To produce useful steel, we must melt the powder in an electric arc furnace and burn off impurities with an oxygen lance.  But everything starts with crude iron.  Most western countries import crude iron from other producers and convert it into steel in electric arc furnaces.

#15 Re: Meta New Mars » Calliban Postings including links to notable contributions » 2025-03-18 17:45:47

TH, I couldn't say at present.  The bins will need to be handled by crane, but this is unlikely to be a limiting factor for batch size.  The size of the batch will be limited by the volume of the pressure vessel.  If PVs are made from alloy steel, the wall thickness will increase as enclosed volume increases.  Beyond a certain point, it becomes very difficult to weld.  We could use concrete pressure vessels with steel stress carrying tendons.  It is possible to build much larger vessels in this way.  Pre-stressed cast iron vessels can take higher pressure, as crush strength of iron is much greater than that of concrete.  The higher the pressure, the more rapidly the iron oxide will reduce into pure iron.

In chemistry, reaction rate is proportional to reactant concentration, which at constant temperature scales linearly with pressure.  Double the pressure and reaction rate doubles.  Reaction rate will be governed by the Arhenius equation.  This states that reaction rate increases exponentially with temperature: R = e^kT.

#16 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Solar Smelting or Solar Melting » 2025-03-18 11:47:10

At atmospheric pressure, temperatures of at least 800°C are needed for the reaction between hydrogen and iron oxide to proceed at reasonable speed.  However, at high pressure, the reaction rate is favourable even at relatively low temperatures of a few hundred C.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9417644/

We still need a source of reducing gas: CO, H2 or CH4.  But high pressure reduces the temperature needed to levels that are more easily provided by solar thermal.  In fact, entirely mechanical energy can be used to drive the process.

The strength of steels do not decline significantly between room temperature and 400°C.  After that, tensile strength declines rapidly as temperature increases, with a 50% loss of strength between 500 and 550°C.  If solar heat can be provided at a temperature between 300-400°C, then iron reduction may be easier to achieve in a closed pressure vessel.

This would be a batch process.  A bin containing finely crushed iron oxide would be loaded in.  The pressure vessel would be sealed and reducing gas would be pumped into the vessel up to a pressure of 200 - 500bar.  The compression itself would generate enough heat to bring the contents of the vessel up to the required temperature.  After a predetermined cook time, the vessel would be drained of gas and the bin containing the partially reduced iron oxide would be removed.  Another bin would be loaded into the vessel and the process begins again.  Once removed from the vessel, the bin would be emptied.  Its contents would crushed and reduced iron powder would be removed using electromagnets.  The iron powder can then be turned into steel in an electric arc furnace.

#17 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Solar Smelting or Solar Melting » 2025-03-18 08:16:34

This reference discusses CO2 dissociation in ceria tubes at temperatures of 1600°C.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a … 4721016119

This might be tough to achieve with concentrated solar heat.  The concentration factor must be extremely high.

#18 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Solar Smelting or Solar Melting » 2025-03-18 07:38:40

This could be useful.
https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/article … c6cc08801e

CO2 starts to dissociate into CO and O2 at temperatures as low as 1200°C.  This is within reach of concentrated solar power systems.  To be useful, we would need ceramic materials with sufficient porosity to allow CO to pass through them, but remaining non-porous to O2.  It must also be non-reactive to CO. Aluminium oxide may be a good candidate.  Hot CO will reduce iron (III) oxide to iron and CO2 at temperatures greater than 800°C.

Fe2O3 + 3CO = 2Fe + 3CO2.

The CO2 can be recycled.  A well designed plant could produce crude iron, electricity and process heat.  Iron powder can then be converted into steel using an electric furnace.

#19 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Gravity Energy Storage » 2025-03-18 05:48:11

The raised weight hydraulic accumulator is an old energy storage technology that could see use in the future.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraul … sed_weight

It is a form of gravity energy storage in which a raised mass is used to pressurise hydraulic fluid in a cylinder.  The amount of energy stored is m x g x h, where m is mass in kg, g = 9.81 and h is the height that the weight is raised.  A 100 tonne weight raised to a height of 10m will store some 9.81MJ, or 2.73kWh.

The downside of this technology is a relatively low energy density.  This will make it expensive to install.  The advantages are simplicity, use of simple materials like steel, concrete and stone, a potentially high discharge rate and extreme longevity.  Raised weight accumulators installed in the 19th century were still in use in the UK until the 1970s.  They were retired because electrically driven systems replaced the entire hydraulic network due to commercial availability of electrical systems.

Hydraulic accumulators are charged by filling them with hydraulic fluid under pressure.  This system is compatible with a hydraulic power transmission system.  This is useful in applications where mechanical power is needed in static machinery.  Hydraulics allow power transmission without the use of electricity.  The systems needed to produce pressurised hydraulic fluid are mechanical pumps.  These could be simple positive displacement piston pumps, driven by direct mechanical wind turbines.  When the wind level is low, the pumps will operate more slowly.  The end use is a turbine that converts the mechanical energy of a moving fluid into rotational energy for a machine.

A modern hydraulic power network could use a combination of wind and solar energy to provide a more continuous supply of mechanical power, which can be buffered by the hydraulic accumulators.  If solar PV is used, the PV network could produce pressurised hydraulic fluid using piston pumps driven by DC motors directly coupled to the panels themselves.  This removes the need for inverters, as the speed of the DC pumps will vary as the power output from the panels varies.  It also eliminates the need for electrical power transmission, as pumps can be installed at regular intervals along a line of photovoltaic panels.

Accumulators are most suitable for relatively short term energy storage.  For periods were there is little or no sun or wind, such a system would need either a backup power supply like a DG or would need to rely on curtailment.  One way of achieving this would be to oversize the system and have some functions on floating switches.  For example, heat pumps could be activated when power levels were high, with hot water stored in insulated tanks.  Grinding and polishing operations can be switched on and off, provided that total output is sufficient over a long period.  With careful organisation, industrial processes could work on an intermittent power supply.

This might be a system that we could put into use on Mars as well.  Due to the lower gravity, accumulators would only store 2/5 of the energy that they would on Earth.  But the system is simple in ways that would make it easier to make, with limited available materials.  Hydraulically powered machines are simpler than electrically powered systems and static hydraulic networks and machinery can be produced almost entirely from low alloy steels.

#20 Re: Not So Free Chat » Peter Zeihan again: and also other thinkers: » 2025-03-16 15:16:45

Isaac Arthur's latest video: Exile Space colonies.
https://youtu.be/oSwW7_JkzTQ

The idea that a private group of people might establish a space colony to escape conditions on Earth, is a plausible one.  I cannot see this sort of thing happening until humanity is fairly well established in space.  Established enough to be able to build interplanetary ships using space based resources.  But at some point, well funded individuals are bound to try it.  The outer asteroid belt would be an attractive target.  Far enough from the sun to allow ice to be stable and volatile elements to be in reasonable abundance.  But still close enough to allow solar power to work.

Why would such a colony be established?  There could be religious or political reasons.  Gerard O'Neill discussed the potential for homesteading missions in his book 'The High Frontier'.  Such ships would be solar powered and would use mass drivers for propulsion.  Propellant would be either liquid oxygen or finely ground solids.  The use of solar power becomes progressively more difficult beyond the orbit the Mars.  In the outer asteroid belt, flux is down to about 10% what it is in near Earth space.  Asteroids are relatively easy to land on and take off again.  So realistic targets are the near Earth asteroids and main asteroid belt.

#21 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Evaporation and Sublimation of Water on Mars » 2025-03-15 17:35:17

I like the solar pond idea.  Assuming that the top of the pond achieves a maximum temperature of 10°C, the required pressure to prevent boiling is 1228Pa.  That is effectively double atmospheric pressure (610Pa) at Mars datum.  In the northern lowlands, atmospheric pressure is greater.  So the structure covering the pond needs to be able to withstand a maximum differential pressure of 618Pa, or 13.1lb/ft2.  That is low enough for a tempered glass paned, metal frame greenhouse structure to serve as cover.  This has the advantage of being significantly more abrasion resistant than a polymer membrane.  It is also insensitive to UV damage.

The pond is divided into two distinct layers.  A dense brine layer sits at the bottom.  A lighter brackish layer floats on top.  The denser brine can be warmer, as it cannot rise by convection through the lighter brackish.  A small ion exchange filter could be used to maintain the salinity gradient within the pond.  A thin layer of polyethylene could provide a physical barrier between the two layers.  This has the additional advantage that a convective boundary layer will form on both sides of it, providing additional insulation to the warm water underneath.

A solar pond would work better on Mars, as the lower gravity would tend to weaken thermal convection.  The lower the gravity, the less efficient convection is at removing heat.

#22 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Habitat Design on Mars » 2025-03-14 05:32:05

This Canadian community provides inspiration for the sort of housing complexes we can build on Mars.
https://youtu.be/EzKSKqjEmDA

On Mars, the built structures will be regolith covered.  They could open onto glass covered streets and atriums.

#23 Re: Life support systems » Iron Cycle on Mars and other worlds.(Materials Extraction) » 2025-03-13 06:36:09

In biomining, we are replacing direct acid leaching with bacteria that excrete acids to do the same thing.  It is an interesting approach.  There are both direct and indirect methods.  The direct method involves injecting the bacterìa into the ground in a solution containing their food source.  The fluid is then withdrawn, ions are seperated by ion exchange membranes and the solution is reinjected along with fresh energy source (i.e acetate).  In the indirect method, the bacteria are grown in a vat.  They metabolise sugar or acetate producing an organic acid, which is then seperated and injected into the ground.  I don't have a strong opinion of which is best.  The indirect method allows bacteria to grow under more controlled conditions.

Many low grade uranium ores are mined using insitu acid leaching.  So the method does come with operational experience.  It will recover a lot of other metals along the way.  The only problem I can see with doing this on Mars is the cold.  The fluid must be heated prior to injection.  Freezing point suppression with salts won't work, because brine becomes progressively more viscous at temperatures below zero.  It may technically still be liquid, but its viscosity will be comparable to treacle.

#24 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Magnetic Confinement Fusion » 2025-03-13 06:28:18

A closely related but subtley different fusion concept is the zeta pinch.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZETA_(fusion_reactor)

Back in the 1950s, thermal runaway within plasma gave rise to sausage kink instability, which appeared to make zeta unworkable.  However, the development of high temperature superconductors allows the production of much stronger confinement fields that could solve the problem.  This could open a much easier pathway to controlled nuclear fusion.  The torus would also be substantially simpler to build, as it wouldn't require any complex windings.

#25 Re: Life support systems » Iron Cycle on Mars and other worlds.(Materials Extraction) » 2025-03-12 14:13:02

These are interesting ideas Void.  We definitely need some creative approaches to steel production on Mars.  If we have to reduce iron using electrolytically derived carbon monoxide, then each kg of molten iron requires 15.51kWh of electricity.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a … 6522003460

That is about the same energy intensity as aluminium on Earth.  It isn't an attractive option unless electricity is cheap.  Which it won't be for while to come.  Using bulk sources of biomass like blue green algae is an attractive option.  It will be easy enough to dry the material by exposing it to Martian atmospheric pressure.  Human waste and refuse is something that could be used as well.

  1. Index
  2. » Search
  3. » Posts by Calliban

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB