Electrostatic atmospheric confinement

Terraformer · 2025-07-19 16:13:31

Did you ever get an answer?

Calliban · 2025-07-20 14:49:20

I did. I put the question to the staff at Centauri Dreams as to whether M2P2 could be adapted to hold a breathable planetary atmosphere to a small body. Their response was that they didn't know, but suspected that the magnetic pressure would need to be far beyond what was foreseen for M2P2. Which makes sense, given that solar wind pressure is miniscule.

I did a few calcs a while back to work out how much superconductor would be needed to produce a magnetic field strong enough to form a plasma window of sufficient magnetic pressure. It looked doable. But another problem with magnetic confinement of plasma is that plasma leaks at the poles. I suspect that any atmosphere so contained would require gradual replenishment.

One idea that occured to me a while back was that solar wind particles could be used to power the production of an oxygen atmosphere. If water vapour is allowed to gradually enter a plasma formed from trapped solar wind particles, it will dissociate by ion collision into OH- and H+. Hydrogen ions, being lighter, would escape more rapidly. The OH ions, would recombine to produce water vapour and O2. Being heavier, the O2 would tend to accumulate closer to the surface. In this way, the trapped solar wind ions can be used to build an oxygen atmosphere from water vapour. Which obviates the need for electrolysis.

Last edited by Calliban (2025-07-20 15:03:24)

Void · 2025-07-20 20:04:04

Please consider this substitution for handling small dwarf planets and maybe icy moons:

It could use improvement in both drawing methods and concepts. It is not electrostatic but perhaps you could stick Oxygen at the magnetic poles and try to synthesize water.

It is a cut-away of both the dwarf planet and the torus "Shell" that surrounds it. The rotational poles are shaded, so that most gas that might leak out might condense at the rotational poles, presuming that configuration is possible. You then could melt a toroid sea to reach down to the core if their is one so that you could mine.

If you wanted to put a differential electrostatic charge on the shell of the toroid, perhaps you would be able to attract molecules to the outer skin of the toroid. Perhaps a (-) charge in side would attract (+) ions.

The magnetic field may direct ions to impact the outside of the shell at the magnetic poles where you might use electrostatics to catch molecules.

If the toroid leaks, my hope is that the leakage will tend to migrate to the rotational poles and so then condense in the intense cold promoted there by the shade of the torus shell.

This is unlike a classical shell world where, escaped atmosphere would either float off or condense on top of the shell, perhaps collapsing it.

The magnetic field would help to retain a temporary atmosphere caused by a leak, until it could condense at the poles.

This particular notion needs poles that are not too tilted.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-07-20 20:12:19)

Calliban · 2025-08-14 13:30:45

It turns out that magnetic fields have little effect on the atmospheric loss rate for terrestrial planets.
https://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/full_ … 34-18.html

Magnetic fields trap charged particles and may reduce the rate of escape close to the equator. But the open field lines close to the poles can have the opposite effect. So magnetic confinement of an atmosphere is unlikely to be successful.

Void · 2025-08-16 07:13:38

The pity is that Carl Sagan passed away. I believe that he would have continued to analyze reality with further input of information about reality. When he was alive, they tried to come up with some way to understand why Mars was the way it was. Atmospheric loss was understood to be a real thing. Earth had a Magnetic Field Mars did not so much have one.

It was a good guess. And I think atmospheric loss was indeed a factor. But now you indicate that magnetic fields do not have too much benefit, it seems.

But like a religion, verbalized science quickly locks into dogmas and protects them like a fortress. In order to communicate to a crowd and get affirmation from in a quest for validation of self, to be a pretty thing, they seek the correct things to say.

At least American School for commoners, is tilted to produce verbal people with common math capabilities as the white collars that the ruling class can use to keep the blue collars in verbal cages to serve the system.

But true science has a certain measure of the blue collar in it.

Lately the effort to keep the lid on has allowed a further extension of the apointocracy. Identifying "Minorities" such as females, the resentful sorts, to help further build up the white-collar lid.

But this is a bit cute, as it turns out that a bit of blue collar can get you some money now.

I am not hating on women except the self-ignorant ones. It is so easy for a person including myself to be given false pride, and to cling to it. They are not much different than I would be if given free white ruler status. (Not racial white, rather white collar).

But it seems that given enough time the lid placed on top of us erodes despite all efforts to make it impregnable.

I hope I will indeed see an increasingly valid description of how planets like Mars operate or operated.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-08-16 07:24:25)

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#26 2025-07-19 16:13:31

Re: Electrostatic atmospheric confinement

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Re: Electrostatic atmospheric confinement

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