New Mars Forums

BWhite, And to show some good humor? Indeed!

You proved a point, which is that many here are very much to the LEFT!

This does indeed cause problems, as you and the left, will never see eye to eye with the RIGHT, and so no progress is made because debate is lowered to slander and propaganda.

As I said, it is important to KNOW whom you are debating with, as this does very much influence the debate.  And indeed the Human Space Effort and Agendas!

I would like to see the makeup of the moderators, as indeed I am sure the vast majority are, as you say, lefty!  This makes any unbiased judging impossible, as you will always support the left, and left views.

The Mars Society should put more effort into running a professional and fair message board, with a balanced, and professional Message Board Oversight Committee.  We, the users of this message board, and indeed Mars Society Members have a right to know who the Admins & Moderators are, and a bio of each.  Admins & Moderators are JOBS and in such should be taken serous, and the Mars Society should ensure they are professional and unbiased.  The Admins & Moderators should not be allowed to hide who they are in their actions as Admins & Moderators.  If they want to post as unknowns, they should do so, with regular user names and accounts like everyone else.  The Admin & Moderator accounts should only be used for official purposes.  Private actions should be done on a seperate user account!  If a Admin or Moderator does not want people to know who they are, then they should not be in a Leadership Position with Power Over Others!

GCNRevenger & BWhite

You both are fakes, and cannot reply or answer, as this would expose your troll status, would it not!

Fakes! Trolls! Agitators!

No More!  No Less!

Let the real people speak, if such are really here?

GCNRevenger, wrong, wrong, wrong!

This is about HUMAN MISSIONS!

Everything in my post is about HUMANS!

You know, those who talk about and support HUMAN MISSIONS!

This also lets people know who is who and what is what!

I am sure you will not participate, because you are a fake troll!

This is indeed, the proper place for this thread!

You are all mouth, and very little of merit!

Cindy,

"*Hi.  Are you a registered, dues-paying member of the Mars Society?  I am, for 2-1/4 years now."

The International Space Agency, and a number of its Board Members were at one time DUE PAYING MEMBERS of the MARS SOCIETY.

However, after Zubrin, and his Government Secrete Society Colleagues, attacked and slandered the Founder of the International Space Agency, and its ( DUE PAYING MEMBERS of the MARS SOCIETY ), we are no longer ( DUE PAYING MEMBERS of the MARS SOCIETY )!!

Cindy, why don't you ask your good freinds the Zubrins, if the International Space Agency was a due paying member or not??

If you like we can post a scanned copy of the donation reciepts to the MARS SOCIETY from the Corporate Visa Accounts for the International Space Agency if you would like!?  In all we gave $1214 in Donations over a 5 year period!

For that support, we get attacked, slandered, and censored by the MARS SOCIETY!

Zubrin has generated hate, because he has not kept his people in line, or better yet turned his attack dogs onto those who stand in his way!

The International Space Agency was in negotiations to have an Officer of the Mars Society join the Board of Directors of the International Space Agency, and this was destroyed by Government Dirty Tricks!  They intercepted communications between the Mars Society and the International Space Agency, and altered and fabercated false messages, which triggered a major incident!  Before both sides were aware of what was done, it was too late, and a war between the Mars Society and the International Space Agency was started!  And seems it continues to the present day!

This is a direct reflection on the Zubrins, firstly because they never attempted to correct this incident or even investigate it, secondly because they turned against due paying supporters of the Mars Society, both of which shows the Zubrins have an agenda, and are in bed with the Government, ie: NASA and DOD!

They use the Mars Society supporters like cash cows!  They do not care about the Mars Society supporters!  Ever tried to get a reply from the Zubrins?  You never will, as they will take your money lickty split, and then see you later dummy.

Cindy, like I said before, praise be to the Doves!

But my dear, learn whom and what you are supporting before you become a hollow sacrifice for someone elses agenda and gain!

The International Space Agency is a Noble & Historic effort, and the fact the Mars Society has not supported this, shows that it is not as good meaning an organization as it advertises to be!

Humanity will never get into space in any Scale or Scope without a focused Global Effort!  This is just a real fact.  The United Nations is not the proper organization to do this.  Also, the Nations will never cooperate willingly do to the lust for power and control, and so a neutral International Space Agency is needed to funnel Government & Private resources and efforts in a focused, organized, and peaceful manner, or nothing of scale and scope will ever happen, never.

That is a very real fact!

That is why the Founder of the International Space Agency, and the ISA vision and efforts have been so ruthlessly attacked and slandered by the powers at be, which is clear Zubrin has laid in bed with!

It is clear Zubrin has sold his sole to the Devil for Fame & Money!
Sooner or later, he will have to pay the Devil his dues, or more likely when the Devil is done with him or no longer needs him, Mr. Zubrin will find himself, like Mr. Dobson, under attack and slander.  That is Mr. Zubrins fate oneday, its not a matter of IF?, its only a matter of WHEN!

Cindy!  Best Regards!

Ad-Astra!  To The Stars!
In Peace For All Humanity!
So Say We All!

Who said anything about a promotion??

Rick?  Toy Rocket Plane?  Not!!
Please, do not pat your self on the back to hard, as you may hurt yourself or something!

You GCNRevenger are a skilled disinformation professional!
Want to throw around big mathmatical formulas that most people cannot understand in the first place, and make them afraid to respond!
BRAVO!

Here is an example that most can understand, and unlike your egg head rants, is something even the simple at heart can understand.

Example: Dragster on a 1/4 mile track at 2G Acceleration with end speed around ~300 mph.  Done all the time in the real world, without egg head fancy mathmatics.  Simple to see and understand.

Ref: http://www.gordon-glasgow.org/thrustssc.html
Ref: http://www.pall.com/Aerospace_2858.asp
Ref: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb … ouspe.html
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound
Ref: http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/mach.html

ISA proposes a 3 to 5 mile acceleration ramp, lets just take 3 miles for fun.
ISA proposes Mach 2 or better or 1520 mph or better
1) 3 miles broken into 1/4 mile chunks, is 3 x 4 or 12 chunks.
2) Each 1/4 mile chunk equals ~300 mph.
3) So 12 chunks of ~300 mph acceleration is a total of ~3600 mph end acceleration.
4) This acceleration is at a constant 2G's of force, which is very doable for a Space Plane stress requirements.

GCNRevenger, just using just laymen math and concepts, and one hand tied behind my back, I can counter your best disinformation efforts anyday.

There is no sudden change in angle, it is a constant 45 degree angle?
I know you cannot under stand big words like, constant, but the big word means that there is no change in angle.  Or perfectly straight for your mind to try yo get around that concept.  There is no down pressure, and there is no catastrophic damage!  Again, nice try at disinformation! ;-)

Again, not true!  Please list links of reference with your disinformation.
But we know you will not do that, as Trolls do not waste time on such things, as it distracts them from slander and disinformation.

Humans cannot and never will ever hope they can fly!
Ref: http://www.mos.org/sln/Leonardo/three/three.html

Humans cannot and will never fly!
Ref: http://www.nasm.si.edu/wrightbrothers

Humans cannot and will never go faster than sound!
Ref: http://www.wilk4.com/misc/soundbreak.htm

Humans cannot and will never go into space!
http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/Sta … garin.html

Humans cannot and will never walk on the moon!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11

Humans cannot and will never walk or live on Mars!
Ref: http://www.international-space-agency.org

Fifth, again, if there is a Space Shuttle that blows up and is destroyed on Launch!
Fifth, again, if there is a Space Shuttle that blows up and is destroyed on Reentry!
and if it happens even once, then the whole Space Shuttle program is totaled!

GCNRevenger, please get a life!  Your disinformation is getting old!

Ref: http://www.powerlabs.org/railgun.htm
GCNRevenger, our trolly troll, please!  Give us real thinkers a break, and save the games for the children who fall for your disinformation!

Oh, I see, Really Now!??
Ref: http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/st … 11204.html
Ref: http://www.greengrants.org/grantstories.php?news_id=46

45 degress is equal alititude (Vertical Speed) and orbital velosity (Ground Speed) and the onboard propulsion will ajust this, as required.  First seeking to gain Altitude, then to gain Orbital Velosity.

The drawings on the ISP Program website, are not the real vehicle, think we are that dumb troll?!  Keep fishing though if it makes the troll happy.

They are just concept renderings, a ISP Program mascott, no more, no less!

Exactly, carrying a tonne or two of fuel for orbital maneuvers and deorbiting!

This would not be the case with the International Space Plane Program carrying a tonne or two of fuel for orbital maneuvers and deorbiting, as that fuel would be loaded only on orbit, not at launch!  Also, the shuttle carries much more fuel, as its fuel must get it all the way to final orbit, and this is about 28% there abouts of its launched fuel mass to achieve this.  The International Space Plane Program would only launch the vehicle with onboard fuel to reach a semi-stable lower orbit, and would then be refueled or towed by a space tug to a higher orbit.  With this approach, the International Space Plane Program would need nearly 40% to 50% less launched fuel mass to fully achieve operational orbit objectives.  This is a dramatic break with present launch thinking, approach, and technology.

Dear Mr. Troll, GCNRevenger, WRONG AGAIN! ;-)
Keep trying, as I find your attempts to disinform, funny.
I just wish others would not fall for your disinformation, as that is sad!

With out SSTO or Fully Reusable Launch Capibility, we are not going to Mars, at least to stay!

A runway imparts no energy to the Launch Vehicle, and Assisted Ramp Launch does!

Thanks for the comments, but that is already in our plans, and has been since 1990's.  As are a number of other potential propulsion options.

Ref: http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1957/ … humbnail11

This has been research done in this area, but is not practicle to use, for many reasons which are beyond the limits of which I am willing to spend on a troll!

Good head hunting Mr. Troll, GCNRevenger!

Sadly, So!

Martin_Tristar  We agree with you on all these points!
Even your keen observations of GCNRevenger.

We like to see people who can stand up to those like GCNRevenger, as GCNRevenger and his type, will undermine and attack to present their agenda.  Debate and compromise is not something the GCNRevengers of the world will ever understand or even respect.

These message boards are full of the GCNRevengers of the world, and sadly this chases away most who would stumble into these slander mills, not having any experience or resolve to stand up to the GCNRevengers of the world.  Most of my professional freinds say they see message boards as a waste of time and below their character to participate in.  I tell them they should not do this, as message boards are a very powerful tool and resource to reach the masses.  I tell them if they get turned off by the GCNRevengers of the world, and go away, they leave them with total control of these powerful resources and tools in modern society to shape and manipulate group think and public opinon totally unchallenged and left to pervert free speech and free enterprise.

GCNRevengers of the world enjoy and employ slander, lies, and propaganda with no remorse or reservation, and sadly totally unchecked and unchallenged.  Sadly, they control mass media mostly, so they can subvert and censor to their little hearts content.  They can attack and slander you, but stand up to them, or expose them, and you and all your ideas just vanish from public view.  This is how they work, and how their type have always controled the masses and media.

Martin_Tristar Keep up the good work!  Hard as it may be!
Everyone benefits from people like you, who think, question, act, wonder, dream, and hope for a better future for humanity.
If they try to silence you, or demoralize you, do not ever give up!
It is what they want you to do!
What these people fear most, is informed citizens with resolve and dedication!

Ad-Astra!  To The Stars!
In Peace For All Humanity!
So Say We All!

http://www.international-spaceplane-program.org

The International Space Agency (ISA) proposes that an Advanced International Ground Based Assisted Space Launch (ASL) System and Fully Reusable International Space Plane (ISP) Vehicle, be Designed, Developed, Constructed, and Operated in an "Airbus Industries Like Management Model and Approach".

This Proposal would consist of two Key Elements.

1) (ASL) - The International Ground Based Assisted Launch System.  This would use Magnetic Repulsor Forces & Technology "ONLY" to Propel a Launch Sled and Space Vehicle up a Metal Rail Track on the side of a Mountain near the Earths Equator at a constant 45 degree angle, and using an Over/Under Metal Wheel Configuration to hard lock the Launch Sled and Space Vehicle to the Launch Ramp and Rails.  This system is "NOT" to be confused with a MAGLEV system, which also uses Magnetic Forces, but "Levitates" the Sled & Vehicle in the Magnetic Field as well as Propelling it with Magnetic Repulsive Forces.  We have specifically picked Magnetic Repulsor Forces as the Main Propulsive Force to move the Launch Sled & Space Vehicle up the Launch Ramp and to Maximum Launch/Release Speeds, for these reasons:

A) Solid Rocket Motor Assisted Propulsion would require Added Mass & Weight to the Launch Sled or Launch Vehicle!  The Fuel & Added Structure would have to be carried on and with the Launch Sled and Space Vehicle as it is Accelerated/Launched up and off the Launch Ramp Facility.

B) Chemical Rocket Motor Assisted Propulsion would require Added Mass & Weight to the Launch Sled or Launch Vehicle!  The Fuel & Added Structure would have to be carried on and with the Launch Sled and Space Vehicle as it is Accelerated/Launched up and off the Launch Ramp Facility.

C) Aerorobic Or Jet Motor Assisted Propulsion would require Added Mass & Weight to the Launch Sled or Launch Vehicle!  The Fuel & Added Structure would have to be carried on and with the Launch Sled and Space Vehicle as it is Accelerated/Launched up and off the Launch Ramp Facility.

D) Electromagnetic Repulsor Motor Assisted Propulsion would "">NOT<"" require Added Mass & Weight to the Launch Sled or Launch Vehicle!  "">NO<"" Fuel or Added Structure would have to be carried on or with the Launch Sled and Space Vehicle as it is Accelerated/Launched up and off the Launch Ramp Facility.  Acceleration Forces and Total Launch Energy is only restricted by Available Power Source and Total Repulsor Area on the Launch Sled. (ie: More Repulsor Surface Area, the More Thrust Is Able To Be Generated!)(Example: A dragster has wide rubber tires, as the more rubber surface that connects with the pavement surface, allows more horsepower from the engine and drive train to propel the dragster forward!)  The More Surface Area, and the More Thrust or Acceleration Forces can be Generated in a given Distance or Time form a given Energy Source!  ie: Electric Power Translated into Electromagnetic Repulsor Forces/Thrust!

2) (RLV/SSTO) - The Fully Reusable Space "Vehicles" and "Space Planes" which will be designed to take advantage of the #1 above.  We hope already existing Space Plane (RLV & SSTO) Programs in the United States, Russia, Europe, Japan, India, and Elsewhere Globally can be drawn upon to seek out a few good candidates for this effort.  This, as it is the goal of the ISA organization, ISP & ALS Programs, to take full advantage of already proposed or developed (RLV & SSTO) systems, to cut cost, and speed up the ability for an Operational System to be Developed, Constructed, and in Operation with in 5 to 7 years!  We do not want to duplicate or reinvent the wheel, but to build on and take advantage of many good ideas and efforts Globally.

These two elements would be undertaken and pursued in an International Consortium of Government and Private Interests and Parties.  This would be done in an "Airbus Industries Like Management Model and Approach".  These Programs and Systems once in operation, would be "Pay As You Go" and "Launch For Hire".

Nothing can ever afford to fail!  Failure is not an option!  :-)

If people are bad, and doing bad things, then saying so is indeed an important priority!

How do you know I am a man?  There are four of us here, and we are not all men, just so you know.  ;-)  Ricky Ticky Tavy says hello clark, but I will not repeat the rest of what he said, as you would likely start crying and yell for your mommy to come protect you.

And yes clark, you are "so baaaahd. baaaaaahd"

You need a really good spanking.

But clark is more like, Baaaaaa, Baaa, Baaaaaaaa, Baa, Baaaa
That is sheep talk for ?, well since you are a sheep, you know what that means!

Oh, clark, hope you have a Merry CHRISTmas!

That is sure to make you happy clark, NOT!  :-)

If a space elevator were to be built on Luna, it would be the best place.  The Earth & Mars have atmosphere, which creates drag and lateral forces on the Space Elevator, and both also have much higher Gravity.  Luna has no atmosphere (to speak of) and very low gravity.  Perfect conditions for a space elevator.

This would work, and in fact has been proposed.

An asteroid can be used as a shell for a space facility or factory.  The core would be mined and used for the ore (if any) and the hollowed out shell would be used as a very protected space facility.  It would be both the structure and the shielding from radiation and impact protection.

Many Asteroids are mainly large chunks of raw ore.  Unlike on the Earth where millions of tons of soil and rock need to be mined, processed, and refined to obtain thousands of pounds of raw ore to be smelted and used for metal production.  On an Asteroid, the Asteroid is the raw ore, you simple pull up a large mining facility or ship along side, and start smelting ore (not all Asteroids, as some are non-ore in nature).  Ore in space will be held in a magnetic field and heated with ion or laser beams to a melting point, spun to move the heavier elements to the outer parts of the ore globule, cooled, and then the heavy ore on the outside of the now cooled ore globule will be harvested and machined into parts.  The core left overs of the ore globule will be used for non-structural materials, like shielding, mass for propulsion, and low grade building materials.

Asteroids will play a very important part to the future of human space efforts.

National Space Society - NSS - Impact On Human Space Exploration?

Is the National Space Society really a open and free organization, or is it just a front organization for exclusive interests of a small few?

Article from the Houston Space Society:

Article Link: http://www.houstonspacesociety.org/naziss.html

Ad-Astra!  To The Stars!
In Peace For All Mankind!
So Say We All!

You guys really know how to trick people!

Your jokes and skilled slip diversions are really funny!

Keep up the good work!

If even one person here learns the truth, that would be a victory!

The rest, the sheep, will always be clueless!

Thank goodness for the Eagles & Doves!