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#1 2006-11-28 11:04:49

C M Edwards
Member
From: Lake Charles LA USA
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 1,012

Re: Neotraditionalists to Mars

“Neo-traditionalist” is a description as much as a philosophy.  It applies to anyone selectively using traditional methods without living a culturally traditional lifestyle.  (It’s common to define “culturally traditional” as “pre-industrial”, but not completely accurate.  We’ve been industrial long enough to find tradition there, too.) A neotraditionalist may or may not have the same motivation for learning and preserving these methods as someone from a traditional culture, but is typically not motivated solely by the functional efficiency of the method selected.  As an adjective, “neotraditional” can be applied to groups as diverse as hobbyists and profiteers, cultists and jazz musicians.  Neotraditionalists tend to pick and choose their traditional methods rather than adopting cultures, but do incorporate these methods into their work, entertainment, home life, etc.  As a rule, neotraditionalists are not continuing an existing culture, but continuing existing methods. 

Reading through some of the ideas posted here and at other Mars exploration related web sites, I am seeing a lot of suggestions for use of methods selected from traditional, non-industrial cultures, included along with the obligatory high technology.  This is common among discussions of agriculture (this being a traditional pursuit common to many cultures in one form or another), but is also frequently mentioned in discussions of habitat, settlement, architecture, politics, motivations for space travel, and the potential for a uniquely Martian culture.   

In principle, neotraditionalism is well represented here.

However, we need to recognize that those methods won’t do us any good if nobody remembers how to implement them.  The value of neotraditionalist groups in our society lies in the fact that they preserve knowledge and skills abandoned by modern institutions, and they provide models of how those skill sets can be successfully interfaced with  modern industrial and postindustrial cultures.  The Mars Society has justified its Mars Analog Research Stations on the grounds that we need to promote skills for exploration.  Well, we need to promote skills for settlement, too. 

One way to do this is to share knowledge with other neotraditionalist groups. 

Settlement is something that a lot of neotraditionalist groups have experience with, and there are several that are well represented on the internet.  Just knowing they’re out there somewhere isn’t really sufficient, though.  We would do better to make contact and work with them, if only to learn and help preserve those skills useful to our goal.  Some may even decide they approve of it. 

I propose a simple first step: expand your blogging.  Find a group that’s interested in solar power, homesteading, or whatever other skill you think might be useful, and start communicating with them.  Have an agenda.  Of course, I see no problem telling everybody on gentlechristianmothers.com that you’re a space enthusiast, but there’s a limit to what that would actually do for the cause.  The goal of blogging around would be to gain knowledge, not converts.  The next step would be to actually start learning the skill and doing it yourself.  People who would otherwise care less about space exploration on general principles will still appreciate when space advocates share a common interest with them. 

Even though we don’t necessarily have a common goal, we have common interests with many other groups.  They just don’t realize it yet.


"We go big, or we don't go."  - GCNRevenger

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#2 2007-01-04 14:31:47

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Neotraditionalists to Mars

A neotraditionalist would settle Mars because they don't like the direction their society is going. Same sex marriage and abortion might offend them for example, so they come to Mars intent on keeping their traditions alive without the interference of Modern Society in an increasingly global and interconnected world. Some people just don't want to be part of the Global Village, or have the Global Village imposing its idea on them.

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#3 2007-01-04 19:51:43

C M Edwards
Member
From: Lake Charles LA USA
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 1,012

Re: Neotraditionalists to Mars

A neotraditionalist would settle Mars because they don't like the direction their society is going. Same sex marriage and abortion might offend them for example, so they come to Mars intent on keeping their traditions alive without the interference of Modern Society in an increasingly global and interconnected world. Some people just don't want to be part of the Global Village, or have the Global Village imposing its idea on them.

Quite possibly, but you're ascribing motive.  Motive for neotraditionalism depends on the individual.  If you look far enough, there are examples of people living neotraditionalist lifestyles that are just fine and dandy with the things you suggest they would be fleeing - except one thing.  They do not generally want the "Global Village" imposing its ideas on them, for the simple reason that when doing so the Global Village tries to crowd out competing ideas.  The one thing that all of these people have in common is that they're working to preserve something - a belief, a lifestyle, a technology, a gene pool, whatever - against the destructive homogenization that is mark of the Global Village.

And yes, some of them might wish to settle a new world for exactly the reasons you ascribe.


"We go big, or we don't go."  - GCNRevenger

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#4 2007-01-04 20:03:20

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Neotraditionalists to Mars

With modern technology and communication, this world is increasingly becoming a single world civilization, its not there yet, but its heading in that direction. There is, for example competition in the United States between Nationalists and Internationalists. Some people value American society and its values, while others push for an international norm that they wish for Americans to adhere to. For example, the Europeans would like us to eliminate Capital punishment for all crimes no matter how heineous, increasingly the Europeans aren't minding their own business and increasingly insisting that we adhere to their standards, and their are some Americans who agree with this, and their are some Americans who do not. How do we know the majority of the World community is right and that we nationalists are wrong? When you have a single world community, you can only try one thing at a time, and sometimes that world community might go down a dead end dragging all the nations with it. Some countries have gone down the socialist route while others have not, with many societies, you can have some making good choices and others not and then they can make comparisons and determine who is doing better, with a single world civilization, you cannot do comparative studies with other civilizations since their are none, that is what space settlement is so important.

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#5 2007-01-25 21:26:06

citizen_142002
Member
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2006-09-25
Posts: 21

Re: Neotraditionalists to Mars

this world is becoming more and more cetralized. I hope that we can maintain decentralized government, for a couple reasons. Number one I think smaller sovreigns are more responsive to the governed and it means fewer people are caught in a massive minority.
Frankly we are all political and cultural minorities, since no one paradigm is dominant in anywhere near 50% of the people. A one world state leaves no exit possibilities. If the world goes socialist, where do libertarians, facists, and greens go?

At that point the best exit option is up.

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#6 2022-04-17 07:39:55

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,897

Re: Neotraditionalists to Mars

Japan might be one of the few nations that manages to balance traditions with the whole futurism robot thing, although their economy suffers stagnation and they forgot one of the family fundamentals, men have become overworked slarymen and some of the women become cat-ladies who go shopping, Japanese forgot how to do that baby making thing.

Archbishop Elpidophoros Slams Russia’s Orthodox Church on Ukraine
https://greekreporter.com/2022/04/06/ar … n-ukraine/

How the Russian Orthodox Church is Helping Drive Putin’s War in Ukraine
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-orth … 28279.html


The jihad expansionist nature of Islam and the Later Day Saint movement or Mormonism have been compared to one another ever since the earliest origins of the latter in the nineteenth century, often by detractors of one religion or the other—or both. Joseph Smith, founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, was referred to as "the modern Muhammad" by the New York Herald, shortly after his murder in June 1844. This epithet repeated a comparison that had been made from Smith's earliest career, one that was not intended at the time to be complimentary. Comparison of the Mormon and Muslim prophets still occurs today, sometimes for derogatory or polemical reasons but also for more scholarly and neutral purposes.


http://www.inplainsite.org/html/smith_and_muhammed.html



Russia says sanctions imperil space station
https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/202 … e-station/


A lawsuit by American Atheists founder Madalyn Murray O'Hair once alleged that Christian Bible observance amounted to a government endorsement of religion in violation of the First Amendment, but the case was dismissed
https://archive.org/details/manonmoonvoyages00chai

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-04-17 08:05:42)

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#7 2022-04-30 05:33:41

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,897

Re: Neotraditionalists to Mars

Vatican Space Observatory proposed a new mathematical understanding of the Big Bang
https://www.european-news-agency.de/mix … ang-83813/

A new Mystery Religion mixing Paganism for the Moon and Mars or will Buddhism, Hinduism and Christianity go to Space?

Religion in ancient Rome refers to the established religious practices that were endemic to Ancient Rome throughout its history. These include practices that originated in the Italian Peninsula, as well as those that would later be integrated from peoples who were eventually brought under Roman rule (insofar as said cults were notably established by the state).
The Romans thought of themselves as highly religious, and attributed their success as a world power to their collective piety (pietas) in maintaining good relations with the gods. Their religion is known for having honored a great number of deities due to its polytheistic nature. A signed message from Pope Paul VI was included among statements from dozens of other world leaders left on the moon on a silicon disk during the Apollo 11 mission. The presence of Greeks on the Italian peninsula from the beginning of the historical period influenced Roman culture, introducing some religious practices that became as fundamental as the cult of Apollo

more
https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/myst/hd_myst.htm
Rome
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/ … html#Livy2
and
https://www.britannica.com/topic/mystery-religion

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#8 2022-05-07 07:38:46

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,897

Re: Neotraditionalists to Mars

What kind of Laws will exist, which culture will dominate, a Hispanic, Russian, American and English speak or will it have Chinese and Japanese influence?
will Mars have separate States with different legal systems?

Could Mars have  a Draft or Compulsory Service?

Will there be War on Mars just as there has been War across Earth?
Mars wear Hats and Long Skirts? I will post a vid of very well spoken women and they have a great memory!

'National service in Britain: why men who served don't think we should bring it back'
https://uk.style.yahoo.com/national-bri … 05000.html

China’s Forgotten Non-Communist Parties
https://thediplomat.com/2012/08/chinas- … t-parties/

The Best Sushi in Seattle
https://www.seattlemet.com/eat-and-drin … ue-edmonds

China and the Western World
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar … ld/306398/

Peninsular and Waterloo General
https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/Peninsu … le/p/21760

How early British rule affected the legal profession in Malta
https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/ … lta.948175

The 1870s describe teenage life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv6V1yHvJyo

Feckless Welsh girls, that Victorian Era, moving to London full of fog and mud, Choir sang drinking song

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-05-07 07:39:41)

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#9 2022-06-02 08:47:01

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,897

Re: Neotraditionalists to Mars

Ukraine: Don't use wheat as weapon of war says Pope

comments are aimed at Russia, condemns Russian blockade of Ukrainian wheat exports.
https://www.ansa.it/english/news/2022/0 … 3fdb0.html

some old religion discussions


Extraterrestrial Pope
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2685

Role of Religion
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2777

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-06-02 08:48:00)

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#10 2022-08-25 13:34:38

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,897

Re: Neotraditionalists to Mars

Pope Francis Slams Traditionalism as ‘Dead Memory’
https://www.breitbart.com/faith/2022/08 … ad-memory/


New traditionalism is considered to be a new phase of traditionalism that appeared in the late 20th through early 21st centuries. Its beliefs are constantly in conflict with secular liberalism. In 2022 a group of American Catholics published "A Manifesto for a New Traditionalism". https://tradistae.com/2021/12/22/trad/
However, Jeffrey Stout has written a book about an "alternate philosophy" that will create a path that is between new traditionalism and secular liberalism
http://www.calvin.edu/henry/research/sy … ridges.pdf

In visual entertainment Western Movies might change and become Neo

How Do You Make a Western in the 21st Century?
https://bbcgossip.com/entertainment/how … t-century/

South Korea records world's lowest fertility rate again
https://www.yahoo.com/now/south-korea-r … 51463.html

and
From the Urban planning, Cityscapes thread


New Urbanism is an urban design movement which promotes environmentally friendly habits by creating walkable neighbourhoods containing a wide range of housing and job types. It arose in the United States in the early 1980s, and has gradually influenced many aspects of real estate development, urban planning, and municipal land-use strategies. New urbanism attempts to address the ills associated with urban sprawl and post-Second World War suburban development.

New Urbanism is strongly influenced by urban design practices that were prominent until the rise of the automobile prior to World War II; it encompasses ten basic principles such as traditional neighborhood development (TND) and transit-oriented development (TOD). These ideas can all be circled back to two concepts: building a sense of community and the development of ecological practices

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-08-25 15:35:53)

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