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#76 2006-11-08 08:30:35

Grypd
Member
From: Scotland, Europe
Registered: 2004-06-07
Posts: 1,879

Re: North Korea Blew the NUKE !!! DPRK tests the bomb ?

The risk is simple you will be making him into a martyr to the 20% of Iraqs population who believe everything he says. It also appears to be revenge rather than justice and that is something that even Machiavelli warned us against. The best means to deal with Saddam is to let him wither like Napoleon far away getting older and more feable and to show the Iraqi people look there was this great leader, human, old and utterly spent. No palaces no grand banquets only ridicule and the knowledge for him it was all for nothing he will die and not even get a grave just to disapear a footnote in history.

You do realize that Napoleon is a horrible example.

If the Allies killed him when they had the chance they would have prevented a hell of a lot of bloodshed.

Napoleon was an example of a case where a negociated settlement pushed him out of power and in this case it solved nothing there was still a lot of political and public support for him and the foreign imposed monarchy/goverment was truly disliked. After his defeat at Waterloo it was so crushing that he abdicated himself and this was needed for the people to see his defeat.


Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.

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#77 2006-11-08 12:29:00

Tom Kalbfus
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Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: North Korea Blew the NUKE !!! DPRK tests the bomb ?

Lenin was not given the death penalty when he was arrested, spared by the Russian Czar who thought he was being humane.

Hitler was not given the death penalty when he was arrested.

The risk in allowing Saddam Hussein to live is that someday he may get out of jail and become dictator again, and perhaps seek revenge against those who jailed him and spared his life, by torturing them to death.

Is there the slightest doubt at all that Saddam Hussein is guilty?

Is their the slightest chance at all that by executing him, they may be executing an innocent person who was framed?

So whats the problem with the death penalty if their is no risk in killing the innocent?

The risk is simple you will be making him into a martyr to the 20% of Iraqs population who believe everything he says.

Then the problem is with that 20% that supports him. A person who supports a dictator is also one who is willing to oppress his neighbor and deny him the right to vote and participate in choosing the government. If I was a dictator supporter for example, I'd support a conservative dictator, and if you don't like him tough, and then maybe you'd support a Left Wing dictator, and instead of having an election, we'd have a civil war with both sides unwilling to support the idea of one person one voted. Saddam Hussein is a mass murderer, if 20% of the population supports a mass murderer, they should either be in jail or expelled from the country, because the existance of such people is detrimental to a functioning democracy, and if they are not willing to allow their neighbors to vote and help choose their own government, I have no sympathy for them, just round them up and send them someplace else. Those supporters are further reason to execute Saddam, because they might bust him out of jail and impose him on the rest of the 80% of the Iraqi people that do not want him. I believe in Justice, and someone who has murdered so many innocent people should not be allowed to live. If 20% rise up and riot, then they should be gotten rid of as the criminals they are, Some people consider Hitler a Martyr too, I an not interested in making any peace with them.


It also appears to be revenge rather than justice and that is something that even Machiavelli warned us against. The best means to deal with Saddam is to let him wither like Napoleon far away getting older and more feable and to show the Iraqi people look there was this great leader, human, old and utterly spent. No palaces no grand banquets only ridicule and the knowledge for him it was all for nothing he will die and not even get a grave just to disapear a footnote in history.

That 20% is a support base which might try to reinstall Saddam Hussein as dictator if given the chance, deprive that 20% of their leader, and they have one less individual to organize them. I think if they do not want to live in Iraq as equal citizens with the other 80% then they do not belong there, it is as simple as that, they are the problem, not whoever they choose to call their leader.

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#78 2006-11-08 12:37:25

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: North Korea Blew the NUKE !!! DPRK tests the bomb ?

The risk is simple you will be making him into a martyr to the 20% of Iraqs population who believe everything he says. It also appears to be revenge rather than justice and that is something that even Machiavelli warned us against. The best means to deal with Saddam is to let him wither like Napoleon far away getting older and more feable and to show the Iraqi people look there was this great leader, human, old and utterly spent. No palaces no grand banquets only ridicule and the knowledge for him it was all for nothing he will die and not even get a grave just to disapear a footnote in history.

You do realize that Napoleon is a horrible example.

If the Allies killed him when they had the chance they would have prevented a hell of a lot of bloodshed.

Napoleon was an example of a case where a negociated settlement pushed him out of power and in this case it solved nothing there was still a lot of political and public support for him and the foreign imposed monarchy/goverment was truly disliked. After his defeat at Waterloo it was so crushing that he abdicated himself and this was needed for the people to see his defeat.

You know that Lenin would have been a Martyr had Czar Nicolaus II executed him when he had him in his custody, but if the Czar executed him, Lenin wouldn't have been around to organize the Bolsheviks, overthrow the Czar's goverment and execute the Czar and his family.

Personally, I think Hitler should have been tried for treason and shot when he organized that "Beerhall putch" in Bavaria, he went to jail, and wrote "Mein Kamf" and got an abbreviated sentence and was let out for good behavior, and then he got elected chancellor, made himself Fuerer, started World War II, and murdered millions. It would have been so much better for him to have received the death penalty when he organized that first insurrection, and it would have ended there. I doubt we would have had a worse outcome that sparing his life.

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