North Korea Blew the NUKE !!! DPRK tests the bomb ?

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2006-10-14 08:26:39

Evidence of radiation from North Korea's claimed nuclear test has been found, a United States offical says.
Radioactivity from N Korea test 'found'
A preliminary US intelligence analysis has shown radioactivity in air samples collected near the suspected test site.

EuroLauncher · 2006-10-15 06:41:28

LO
Now, ask the question: would had been North Korea so eager to get nukes if it hadn't been listed on the "Axis of Evil", watching what are the results of war at Iraq,
would Iran too ?
Yes. Horse before the cart! George Bush was reacting to what North Korea and Iran were doing, it was not a case of him calling them the villian and then them reacting by being the villian.
Don't you see where is the horse end the cart ?
I don't call him the vilain, I call him the chimp, not to have understood that Pakistan was the real ennemy, feeding North Korea and Iran with nuke technology, feeding terrorism in its madrassas koranic schools, as well as Saudia spreading islamism the world over thanks to petrodollars
So tiny straight minded from so many to keep eyes down on political men sex affairs when Earth safety is on first line
Jimmy Carter did worse, he did not even try.
Typical short sighted argument to go and seek 15 years old souvenirs when the problem is here and now.

The U.N. Security Council voted unanimously on Saturday to impose punishing sanctions on North Korea including ship searches for banned weapons, calling Pyongyang's claimed nuclear test "a clear threat to international peace and security."
http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/20 … ov7d80.txt
North Korea immediately rejected the resolution, and its U.N. ambassador walked out of the council chamber after accusing its members of a "gangster-like" action which neglects the nuclear threat posed by the United States.

Tom Kalbfus · 2006-10-15 08:51:43

LO
Now, ask the question: would had been North Korea so eager to get nukes if it hadn't been listed on the "Axis of Evil", watching what are the results of war at Iraq,
would Iran too ?
I still think that the bunch of chimps leading at White House have done the worst job any american presidency has ever done
Please, US citizen, get rid of him as soon as possible
Oh please. Leisure Suit Kimmy was trying to get the bomb more than a decade ago. For the same reasons. Clinton nearly went to war over it in 1993, then backed off and gave NK reactors, oil, food, and god knows what else, on the promise that the UN would watch and make sure there was no funny business. They failed. They are failing in Iran. And you know why, cause Saddam was able get away with stuff for twelve years. And now because the rest of the world fought so hard to not inforce it's own rules in Iraq, forcing us to do all of it, the madmen in NK and Iran think they can get away with murder.
I know Continental Europe hates it when Bush calls a spade a spade. I guess when you folks assume that if you can't see the tanks ready to roll over you, the world is all puppies and butterflies.
Ha Ha, which US army is mud trapped in Iraq, after the ousting of one of the most unpleasant regime, but which never was Al Qaeda's ally, but rather its ennemy, while Kimmy handcrafts ist nukkies ? and while Ahmadinejad plays with uranium enrichment as well as with Euro and US nerves ?
I'm still thinking that there were other means to oust Saddam without destroying iraq administrative infrastructures, without these so many losses of US soliers and such a massive loss of Iraqian lives, without being morally weakened with torture to the eyes of the word public opinion, without increasing the muslims rage at USA and occidental world. That's all wrong.
As well as the War at terrorism concept, that's not the Army job, it's intelligence services, police and special forces job.
I you call me a member of the axis of evil and I see you try to destroy another so-called evil, I'll hurry and seek for weapons, maybe I'll think quite wise to shoot at you first before you do, therefore I think very stupid of SuperChimpBush to threaten Iran and Korea the way he did with le Axis of Evil chatchat.
Actions have to be silently prepared while smilling at what you think is your ennemy, if strikes must be decided. That's a basic tactical concept.

If North Korea strikes first, then the USA will strike last, and North Korea will never strike again. Saying that its the USA's fault for provoking North Korea doesn't change that basic fundamental fact. North Korea has 8 to 12 fission bombs, the USA has 8,000 thermonuclear bombs, isn't it obvious who would win a nuclear war between the two? North Korea doesn't even have missiles that can reach all our US cities, the ones that theoretically could reach left coast cities have failed in their test. North Korea will have to find some other way to deliver their 12 fission devices to us, besides missiles, those fission bombs are probably very heavy and bulky, and can't fit in a suitcase. Enough of the US will survive to wipe out North Korea finally and totally with our 8,000 thermo nuclear warheads. If I was the US president, I'd go ahead and call North Korea's bluff.

Tom Kalbfus · 2006-10-15 08:59:48

The difference is that North Korea can actually roll those tanks over south Korea. Do we honestly want to see Seoul destroyed cause that is what will happen in the first barrage of the North Koreans they have that many artillery pieces aimed at the south. Ask the soldiers what they call all those border fortresses they guard. There nickname is the speedbump for them and for a very good reason too.
If the US stuck first are you sure they couldn’t take out those artillery pieces fast enough?
Okinawa, Seoul, Tokyo, Koyoto and Osan are all within range of dicatator Kim Jong il's Nodong-2 with a range of 2,000km (1250miles),

which means the USA would perhaps have to sacrifice thousands of people ( or maybe millions ? ) in this region, the DPRK has has an extensive biological and chemical WMD program with tabun, never agents and such. The American decision not to attack North Korea is based on much more than the North Korean nuclear deterrent—North Korea’s million-man army and its conventional capability to destroy much of Seoul, along with the strong opposition of South Korea and China to an attack. Iran’s situation is different—its neighbors are far less interested in protecting it, and its ability to wreak havoc in Iraq and Israel, while substantial, is less imposing than North Korea’s ability to devastate Seoul. The South Korean capital is only a few miles from the DMZ, so the DPRK could simply shell Seoul in response to any US strike and wreak mayhem upon US troops in the region and wreak havoc upon the South Korean people.

The destruction of Seoul is not the end of the World, but merely the beginning of North Korea's destruction. The US should respond massively to an unprovoked attack by North Korea, and I do not consider, not forking over billions of dollars to the North Korean regime as "provoking" it.

North Korea decision is simply, the USA is not going to meet with its government one-on-one, and if the North Korean leader has a temper tantrum about this and launches a missile attack, the USA will respond massively and North Korea will die. Now Kim will have to think carefully about this, will he attack if the USA doesn't meet his demands or will he not. The USA should simply wait and see what he decides and respond accordingly. I doubt he'll do what he threatened to do, that is launch a nuclear missile attack on the United States. Good old-fashioned Cold War deterrence will work, and if it doesn't that will mean the end of North Korea, South Korea can probably move in and take over what's left at this point.

DonPanic · 2006-10-15 10:22:14

Saying that its the USA's fault for provoking North Korea doesn't change that basic fundamental fact. North Korea has 8 to 12 fission bombs, the USA has 8,000 thermonuclear bombs, isn't it obvious who would win a nuclear war between the two?

I didn't say that nuclear North Korea effort was US fault, I said that Bushs' threatening words and policy urged this effort.

Now, a large majority of South Koreans don't want any attack at all because they are in first line, and their parents and relatives live in North Korea.

Tom Kalbfus · 2006-10-16 01:37:27

Saying that its the USA's fault for provoking North Korea doesn't change that basic fundamental fact. North Korea has 8 to 12 fission bombs, the USA has 8,000 thermonuclear bombs, isn't it obvious who would win a nuclear war between the two?
I didn't say that nuclear North Korea effort was US fault, I said that Bushs' threatening words and policy urged this effort.
Now, a large majority of South Koreans don't want any attack at all because they are in first line, and their parents and relatives live in North Korea.

Well then, maybe they can persuade their relatives to overthrow their government and not attack them or us. So far the North Korean Government is making them goose step off a cliff. North Koreans attack South Koreans, familial relations don't seem to stop their northern relations from doing so? North Koreans have proven a cruel enemy, just like their ancient ancestors, the Mongols. if the North Koreans are too afraid of their own government, perhaps they ought to consider what we can do to them if they attack us, and whether to obey such an order to attack us, they must know its national suicide if they do.

DonPanic · 2006-10-16 02:24:55

North Koreans have proven a cruel enemy, just like their ancient ancestors, the Mongols.

Some other préjugé of yours. Compared with what the ancient Romans did to the cities or nations populations with dared resist them, no people can be said naturally cruel.
Mongols never invented anything like the Circus games. There is much of the roman in the Western civilization mind, to begin with half the latin rooted words we use.
What you say is just an insult at an ethny, this proves, without the least doubt, how racist you are. No wonder why you would be so easily a nuker...

By the way, Mongol women are considered as very beautiful following the chinese standards of beauty, and it is said that when Gengis Khan ruled Mongolia, a maid bearing all her golden jeweelry could safely cross Siberia without any escort.

An old Mongolian saying advice: "Keep breakfast for yourself, share lunch with your friend and give dinner to your enemy".
To give dinner to an ennemy, :shock: how stupid, cruel and undercivilized a people Mongols were!

Well then, maybe they can persuade their relatives to overthrow their government and not attack them or us.

This isn't an easy job, communist education and propaganda brainwashes people.
To their eyes, capitalist USA is the threat and Kim's the guy supposed to protect them from the threat.

Tom Kalbfus · 2006-10-16 09:07:49

North Koreans have proven a cruel enemy, just like their ancient ancestors, the Mongols.
Some other préjugé of yours. Compared with what the ancient Romans did to the cities or nations populations with dared resist them, no people can be said naturally cruel.
Mongols never invented anything like the Circus games. There is much of the roman in the Western civilization mind, to begin with half the latin rooted words we use.
What you say is just an insult at an ethny, this proves, without the least doubt, how racist you are. No wonder why you would be so easily a nuker...

What I say is true though, the Koreans are descended from the Mongol Horde that invaded China. Whenever Koreans act cruel, they are illustrating the point, whether its true or not. I used to know of some Korean/American children whose parents rejected them because they were half American, that is racism. Koreans are famous for their racism, this I know. Then there was all this AntiAmerican stuff, you know with US Soldiers being attacked in the streets of South Korea, perhaps it is because they are white. Alot of Americans died to keep South Korea free, and already they are being demonized for that sacrifice. Perhaps if you look at it that way, you can understand some of my sour feelings toward them. Not to mention that the North routinely tortured and Murdered captured American soldiers during the Korean War while captured North Korean soldiers were treated according to the Genevia conventions, I think that indicates anti-white racism on their part, just ask Senator John McCain about that. the US has done nothing but help the South Koreans, and for that we are spat upon. Now how fair is that? You know how tired I am of this. US soldiers sacrificed for alot of countries in the 20th century, you should know this, because your country is one of those. Unlike other Imperialist countries, we did not keep the land that we fought for. We did not build an Empire the way that France and Great Britian did. In the 19th century we were more expansionistic, but I don't hear people complaining about that much, it is mostly what we did in the 20th century that I hear the complaints about, thngs like liberating Western Europe and keeping it free, the same with South Korea. Our men died in other people's countries fighting for other people's freedom, and I don't think its fair that we should be vilified for that.

By the way, Mongol women are considered as very beautiful following the chinese standards of beauty, and it is said that when Gengis Khan ruled Mongolia, a maid bearing all her golden jeweelry could safely cross Siberia without any escort.
An old Mongolian saying advice: "Keep breakfast for yourself, share lunch with your friend and give dinner to your enemy".
To give dinner to an ennemy, :shock: how stupid, cruel and undercivilized a people Mongols were!

Well then, maybe they can persuade their relatives to overthrow their government and not attack them or us.
This isn't an easy job, communist education and propaganda brainwashes people.
To their eyes, capitalist USA is the threat and Kim's the guy supposed to protect them from the threat.

I never said Mongol women weren't beautiful. When the Mongol horde descends on your city, if your a beautiful woman, they may spare your life, and make you a harem girl instead. I think the Germans and the Mongols deserved the reputations they got, it serves notice to future generation not to do what they did. Do you not agree with this? The Mongols never got as far as France, but the Germans sacked your country, and killed millions of your citizens, I don't want a repeat performance. Two World Wars by the same Germans is enough in one lifetime, If the Germans have difficulty living with that reputation, then they should b;ame their grandfathers and great grandfathers for fighting and murdering for Hitler shouldn't they. Those people were very thoughtless in invading their neighbors and obeying orders from their Nazi government, didn't they consider that their children would have to live down the reputation they brought down for their country, or perhaps they didn't care as they went from town to town murdering men women and children because orders were orders.

Yes, it not fair to blame people for the actions of their ancestors, on the other hand these cruel murderers were in part responsible for their childrens upbringing, people will tned to be suspicious of them, and that is only natural.

I wish the North Koreans didn't have a reputation for Cruely, but as long as they continue to goose step to their masters wishes, they will have that reputation and draw unfavorable comparisons to their Mongol ancestors. I do not wish to make excuses or allowances for them, because I want them to stop. If they do not like being called the modern day Mongol horde, then they should modify their behavior and get rid of their government. I'm sure they could do it if they all fought together, and fought against their government every bit as fanatically as the Arab insurgents fought against us. the Kim government wouldn't stand a chance if that were to happen. Today the only way to live in North Korea is to goose step and do evil things at the Kim government's behest.

DonPanic · 2006-10-16 10:29:20

What I say is true though, the Koreans are descended from the Mongol Horde that invaded China. Whenever Koreans act cruel, they are illustrating the point, whether its true or not.

I told you that Romans were far more cruel than the Mongols, they killed most of their opponents a horrible way, looting all richnesses and sailing all the transportable populations on their slave markets.

You know how tired I am of this. US soldiers sacrificed for alot of countries in the 20th century, you should know this, because your country is one of those. Unlike other Imperialist countries, we did not keep the land that we fought for. We did not build an Empire the way that France and Great Britian did.

I know what we owe to your fathers and grand-fathers for coming fiercely fight on the french soil.
But gratitude doesn't forbid to say when you mistake, it's not unfriendly to tell it.
I don't like much of hidden calculations when de Villepin opposed USA before Bush launched the attack on Iraq, but there was a warning: this war will make more mess in Iraq and in the region. Today, a light majority of US citizens are convinced that this war doesn't higher their security level, and to say the things clearly, this war supposed to protect american lives from terrorism has already killed more of your boys than the 9/11 attacks, let's not talk of the many wounded and all the Iraqi lives.

The Mongols never got as far as France,

This is a very disputed point in France, led by Attila, the Huns which were thought to be Mongols tribes are supposed to have been defeated and mostly disbanded by the gallo-roman army led by General Aetius in a site called "Champs Catalauniques", but remains of such a battle haven't be discovered up to now, before that, the same Huns are repported to have besieged Lutecia, the former name for Paris, at this time, the two islands on the river Seine, center of paris, could easily contain all the city and suburbs populations, be defended and boat supplied.

I wish the North Koreans didn't have a reputation for Cruely, but as long as they continue to goose step to their masters wishes, they will have that reputation and draw unfavorable comparisons to their Mongol ancestors. I do not wish to make excuses or allowances for them, because I want them to stop. If they do not like being called the modern day Mongol horde, then they should modify their behavior and get rid of their government.

They cannot get rid of their government, not more than the Russians could get rid of Stalin or the Chineses get rid of Mao, ordinary North Koreans don't even have a TV to know how is the "outer world", they just can look at the Party collective TVs, when allowed to. The Party even organises coach travels to their populations so they can have a look at the defensive buildings and weapons on the South Korean boderline side up to convince them that the capitalist military threat is obvious.
You can't condemn a brainwashed population as you can't punish a child wich isn't aware of his doing bad.
It's a nomenclatura which is to be condamned.
We have to deal with this mad machine.

Tom Kalbfus · 2006-10-17 09:18:10

What I say is true though, the Koreans are descended from the Mongol Horde that invaded China. Whenever Koreans act cruel, they are illustrating the point, whether its true or not.
I told you that Romans were far more cruel than the Mongols, they killed most of their opponents a horrible way, looting all richnesses and sailing all the transportable populations on their slave markets.

The Mongol killed the populations of whole cities they conquered and burned them to the ground. The Romans were more interested in making the conquered cities pay tribute. The Romans also made civic improvements, built roads and Aquaducts, some of which still exist in France, the Mongols did none of those things, all they did was burn loot rape and pillage. Perhaps if the Mongols ever reacehd France, you'd know more about that, but that is what they did throughout Eastern Europe and Central Asia. All and all I'd prefer the Romans. They killed some people, and even made entertainment out of it, but not on the scale the Mongols did. The Mongols were much less forgiving than the Romans.

You know how tired I am of this. US soldiers sacrificed for alot of countries in the 20th century, you should know this, because your country is one of those. Unlike other Imperialist countries, we did not keep the land that we fought for. We did not build an Empire the way that France and Great Britian did.
I know what we owe to your fathers and grand-fathers for coming fiercely fight on the french soil.
But gratitude doesn't forbid to say when you mistake, it's not unfriendly to tell it.
I don't like much of hidden calculations when de Villepin opposed USA before Bush launched the attack on Iraq, but there was a warning: this war will make more mess in Iraq and in the region. Today, a light majority of US citizens are convinced that this war doesn't higher their security level, and to say the things clearly, this war supposed to protect american lives from terrorism has already killed more of your boys than the 9/11 attacks, let's not talk of the many wounded and all the Iraqi lives.

Hindsight is always 20/20, its hard to tell which of the prophits are telling the truth and which are just guessing, your country sure was wrong about Hitler though.

DonPanic · 2006-10-18 13:06:00

Hindsight is always 20/20, its hard to tell which of the prophits are telling the truth and which are just guessing, your country sure was wrong about Hitler though.

I've already told you that Brit Chamerlain was part of the Munich negiociators, my country wasn't the only one wrong at this time, Great Britain too.

USA was warned that invading Iraq would set a mess in the whole region, you got the result, US Army isn't abble to deter North Korae, yet more US boys have been victim of the big ape stupidity than the 9/11 did.

But I must conclude that a blockhead remains a blockhead whatever happens.

Tom Kalbfus · 2006-10-19 14:04:13

Hindsight is always 20/20, its hard to tell which of the prophits are telling the truth and which are just guessing, your country sure was wrong about Hitler though.
I've already told you that Brit Chamerlain was part of the Munich negiociators, my country wasn't the only one wrong at this time, Great Britain too.
USA was warned that invading Iraq would set a mess in the whole region, you got the result, US Army isn't abble to deter North Korae, yet more US boys have been victim of the big ape stupidity than the 9/11 did.
But I must conclude that a blockhead remains a blockhead whatever happens.

You still haven't answered my question: How do you know which warnings to listen too? If we'd listened to everyone's warnings, we would have done nothing and have been invaded and taken over by now. You don't know what would have happened if Saddam Hussein stayed in power, any more than you know what would have happened had we deposed Adolf Hitler in 1936. We can speculate, but we'd only be weighing guesses against facts. By your reasoning, we should never do nothing to prevent anything. World War II taught us, we should try to anticipate threats, and interupt them before they got too big. I don't like the idea of waiting for the enemy to build a mighty war machine and then opposing him. You lost France because you waited too long, you did not do anything to stop Hitler when it was easier, and if you did, there would be no way to difinitively prove that he would have developed into a greater menace if left unchecked. At least our way, we don't end up invaded and occupied like you were. That Great Britain did it also is no excuse, only the Channel save Great Britian, France did not have any such thing. You are responsible for your own foreign affairs. Following the sheep over the cliff is no excuse.

DonPanic · 2006-10-20 05:27:29

You still haven't answered my question: How do you know which warnings to listen too? If we'd listened to everyone's warnings, we would have done nothing and have been invaded and taken over by now. You don't know what would have happened if Saddam Hussein stayed in power, any more than you know what would have happened had we deposed Adolf Hitler in 1936. We can speculate, but we'd only be weighing guesses against facts. By your reasoning, we should never do nothing to prevent anything. World War II taught us, we should try to anticipate threats, and interupt them before they got too big. I don't like the idea of waiting for the enemy to build a mighty war machine and then opposing him. You lost France because you waited too long, you did not do anything to stop Hitler when it was easier, and if you did, there would be no way to difinitively prove that he would have developed into a greater menace if left unchecked. At least our way, we don't end up invaded and occupied like you were. That Great Britain did it also is no excuse, only the Channel save Great Britian, France did not have any such thing. You are responsible for your own foreign affairs. Following the sheep over the cliff is no excuse.

There was a lot of differences between the pre WW2 situation and the Iraq war 2. In 1939, Germany wasn't overflighted each day by US and Royal air forces as far as I know !
Germany was the second industrial world power, were is Iraq in industrial world ranking?
Iraq was UNO inspected, UNO didn't exist, there was a Society Of Nations witho any kind of military means.
Therefore what is true for prewar Germany isn't true for Iraq.
Saddam martyrised other ethnies because they opposed to him, not because they just weren't Sunnis, there are a lot of accusations against Saddam, not any accusation of racism
Recalling the german invasion again and again will not fit on Iraq whatever your historic SF speculations are, I'm not telling you again and again how or why you could have avoided Pearl Harbour attack, do I ?
But I can recall you that lots of countries and peoples all over the world opposed to the second Iraq war, feeling it would become a nightmare, this is a fact, not a speculation

And don't you ever think that here in France we have the least sympathy for the terrorists, we had GIA algerian terrorists blasts in our metro, Al Qaeda calls for actions against France, we expect at any moment an attack as those in London and Madrid.

Tom Kalbfus · 2006-10-20 09:46:08

Whose nightmare is it? Not yours, France stayed out. France not only stayed out, it tried to interfere. Switzerland stayed out too, but it did not try to interfere. I much prefer the Swiss brand of neutrality over the French. The War is not your problem, so I don't see how it is any of France's business, other than of course that it did business with Saddam Hussein.

The truth is France's mistake in World War II cost it more dear than America's mistake in this place, especially if you happen to be a French Jew in occupied France.

Saddam Hussein did call for the destruction of Israel, and he did make unprovoked attacks on Israel when he launched missiles at it in the PErsian Gulf War. Saddam killed alot of Jews that weren't actively trying to over throw him Saddam was an admirer of Hitler, the founder of the Baathist movement actually got his start in Germany during World War II.

Now, do you have any other reason to oppose the War in Iraq other than it is what the United States is doing? Let me anticipate some possible answers.

1) To avoid civilian deaths.

Most civilian deaths are caused by other Iraqis or Arab infiltrators that make attacks on them. If there is any violence in Iraq, it is the fault of the Iraqi people for not being law abiding and respectul of other people's rights. I personally think it was a mistake to include violent elements in the Iraqi government, like this Al Sadrer, since his armed group unlawfully took over a city with his militia, I'd have him declared a rebel, and have all his representatives in government arrested. We pushed this inclusive government to buy some peace, but no peace was offered. It seems the solution to Iraq's problem is to expell all the troublemakers, and make boat people out of them. If we have to expel half of Iraqs population to obtain peace, then that just means that there is so much more oil revenue for those who remain behind. The Iraqi citizens who are not violent and who do not support terrorists need to be rewarded, and those that keep the violence up need to be punished. My solution would be to just keep on making boat people out of Iraqis who support violence until there is no more armed conflict in Iraq. I would give up trouiblesome mountainous regions where there are pourous borders, and establish new borders that are easier to defend, and place mine fields in them, and walls, and fences to keep the infiltrators out. The tendency of Arabs not to respect international borders and commit act of violence is very disturbing. I don't see why our enemies should get any oil revenue, they attacked US soldiers, and I feel they should not be rewarded for it. The only people in Iraq that I feel sympathy for is the Kurds and the Christians, they haven't given us any trouble, so I think they should be rewarded for it. People who commit violence or support violence have forfeited their rights to live in Iraq, in my opinion. Since we're there, and compromise with our enemies has not worked, we should just expel them. If the Arab world doesn't like this, tough, they can provide a big boost to our alternate fuels industry. Unlike some, I do not distinguish between Shiites and Sunnis, all I know is that both groups have attacked the United States, and therefore both religions are equal, but I think the more cooperative elements in these groups should be rewarded. Expelling people, I think will work, because People are the source of all problems in Iraq.

If France does not have sympathy with the terrorists, then it should not make any efforts to stop those who want to combat them. I do not support any policy that gives any terrorists or their supporters anything to celebrate.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2006-10-20 09:57:51

LO
Now, ask the question: would had been North Korea so eager to get nukes if it hadn't been listed on the "Axis of Evil", watching what are the results of war at Iraq,
would Iran too ?
I still think that the bunch of chimps leading at White House have done the worst job any american presidency has ever done
Please, US citizen, get rid of him as soon as possible
Oh please. Leisure Suit Kimmy was trying to get the bomb more than a decade ago. For the same reasons. Clinton nearly went to war over it in 1993, then backed off and gave NK reactors, oil, food, and god knows what else, on the promise that the UN would watch and make sure there was no funny business. They failed. They are failing in Iran. And you know why, cause Saddam was able get away with stuff for twelve years. And now because the rest of the world fought so hard to not inforce it's own rules in Iraq, forcing us to do all of it, the madmen in NK and Iran think they can get away with murder.
I know Continental Europe hates it when Bush calls a spade a spade. I guess when you folks assume that if you can't see the tanks ready to roll over you, the world is all puppies and butterflies.
The difference is that North Korea can actually roll those tanks over south Korea. Do we honestly want to see Seoul destroyed cause that is what will happen in the first barrage of the North Koreans they have that many artillery pieces aimed at the south. Ask the soldiers what they call all those border fortresses they guard. There nickname is the speedbump for them and for a very good reason too.
And it is not the west that is giving the Norks there Oil or Food that is the Chinese and for good reason too. They have no wish for the North Korean regime to collapse its potential for regional catastrophe is far too high. Even south Korea gives lip service to the idea of a reunified Korea the cost would bankrupt the south. The North is so devestated it would make the German reunification look like a meeting of old friends

It's difficult to see a good solution to all this, the United States will beat the DPRK forces but the cosequences of military action are too costly for either side to accept. As dictator Kim goes down he could easily start hitting the South with shells or start lobbing a few missiles into the heart of Tokyo or Seoul. A biological or chemical WMD program used agressively by the North Koreans could mean the loss of 30,000 US troops. China is worried about refugees and and the US is worried about impact on its Asian bases or the world's largest economies so Kim and his cronies get to stay in power for a while, and south Korea won't have to go bancrupt trying to rebuild the South Korean Capital or rebuilding the North after it gets destroyed by US and ROK forces.

Tom Kalbfus · 2006-10-20 11:06:01

Depends on who is more suicidal. If North Korea threatens us, then we are going to stop North Korea. If South Korea is overrun by the North, that would be the first time I ever heard of a Third World Country invading a First World Industrialized one. Ultimately, the people are responsible for their own governments. Back during the Korean War, some people in the Korean Pennesula made a decision to support the Communist rebels over the democratic forces, they are responsible for Kim being there now. The North Koreans have continued to allow the Communist Kim government to rule over them. If Kim starts a war with the west, it is the North Korean people who will reap what their ancestors sowed. Unless Kim is overthrown, I feel that North Korea is going to come to a very bad end, and I don't feel we should make concessions to the North in order to stop it.

Whether there is a war that destroys Seoul and causes the West to retaliate against North Korea and hurt the people living there is entirely in Kim's hands. You can't say it is our fault for not sending him enough money or permitting him to gain nuclear weapons. If North Korea menaces the United States and Japan, then we should stop them, irrespective of whether North Korea attacks Seoul. The fault lies with South Korea for not preparing sufficient defences to stop the North Koreans, if this happens. If they tried to save money on Defense, and give peace a chance, this is how they pay the piper.

North Korea can trash Seoul if they like, but the US will defeat them, and I don't know how they can expect aid from us, it its going to rebuilt Seoul which they destroyed? Let them stew in their own rubble, if they obey their own government, and march, and launch missiles at Seoul, and kill their South Korean cousins, I don't know how they can expect help from them afterwards. People that start the war should pay a price for it. North Koreans abdicated responsibility for their own actions to their government, but they will still reap the consequences for it afterwards. If we have to send our soldiers their to fight them and to be killed by them, I don't see why we should help out our enemy afterwards. They can sit in their ruins and know that it was they, following orders from their own government, that ruined their country. They are responsible and no one else is. If an undemocratic regime arises from their rubble and causes more trouble again, then we will knock them down again and again for as many times as it takes to teach the North Koreans the lesson to leave their neighbors alone!

I'm sick of rebuilding countries and then being attacked for it! Iraq has taught us that lesson, their countries can stay ruined as far as I'm concerned, and if they cause trouble because of that, we'll blast them to rubble one more time! No more Marshal Plans!

DonPanic · 2006-10-20 13:46:15

If France does not have sympathy with the terrorists, then it should not make any efforts to stop those who want to combat them. I do not support any policy that gives any terrorists or their supporters anything to celebrate.

BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH

Well, meanwhile you're loosing sense and self-control, if you ever had any, telling absolutely anything, N Korea 'not planning more tests'

While you're vituperating, a simple analyze of forces balance shows that in any case, North korea wouldn't have launch any suicide attack without being crushed by South Korean army which has a tremendous air superiority. All these gesticulations from North Korea was a desperate try to get some economic help.

Well, I know that a large majority of Americans aren't your pit-bull type of man, a nuke freak worthing not more than any Saddam.

My solution would be to just keep on making boat people out of Iraqis who support violence until there is no more armed conflict in Iraq.

And my diagnosis remains :shock: : Megalomania with paranoid tendancies
Prescrition is still the same: get up realy, work hard, and become Master of The World up to be able to carry up your "solution"

EuroLauncher · 2006-10-21 12:35:22

Oh please. Leisure Suit Kimmy was trying to get the bomb more than a decade ago. For the same reasons. Clinton nearly went to war over it in 1993, then backed off and gave NK reactors, oil, food, and god knows what else, on the promise that the UN would watch and make sure there was no funny business. They failed. They are failing in Iran. And you know why, cause Saddam was able get away with stuff for twelve years. And now because the rest of the world fought so hard to not inforce it's own rules in Iraq, forcing us to do all of it, the madmen in NK and Iran think they can get away with murder.
I know Continental Europe hates it when Bush calls a spade a spade. I guess when you folks assume that if you can't see the tanks ready to roll over you, the world is all puppies and butterflies.
The difference is that North Korea can actually roll those tanks over south Korea. Do we honestly want to see Seoul destroyed cause that is what will happen in the first barrage of the North Koreans they have that many artillery pieces aimed at the south. Ask the soldiers what they call all those border fortresses they guard. There nickname is the speedbump for them and for a very good reason too.
And it is not the west that is giving the Norks there Oil or Food that is the Chinese and for good reason too. They have no wish for the North Korean regime to collapse its potential for regional catastrophe is far too high. Even south Korea gives lip service to the idea of a reunified Korea the cost would bankrupt the south. The North is so devestated it would make the German reunification look like a meeting of old friends
It's difficult to see a good solution to all this, the United States will beat the DPRK forces but the cosequences of military action are too costly for either side to accept. As dictator Kim goes down he could easily start hitting the South with shells or start lobbing a few missiles into the heart of Tokyo or Seoul. A biological or chemical WMD program used agressively by the North Koreans could mean the loss of 30,000 US troops. China is worried about refugees and and the US is worried about impact on its Asian bases or the world's largest economies so Kim and his cronies get to stay in power for a while, and south Korea won't have to go bancrupt trying to rebuild the South Korean Capital or rebuilding the North after it gets destroyed by US and ROK forces.

Ex-S. Korean Leader: North May Use Force
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/ … A4O2.shtml
South Korea's former president, who won a Nobel Peace Prize as the architect of Seoul's engagement policy with North Korea in the 1990s, warned Saturday the communist nation could react to U.N. sanctions over its nuclear test with force.

Striking The US Where It Hurts
http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/ … 0234503378

Rice prods Russia on Georgia, NGOs, press freedom
http://today.reuters.com/News/CrisesArt … =L21762612

Grypd · 2006-10-21 16:50:39

I am not concerned about the North Koreans posessing nuclear weapons only that they will sell them and the technology. But what does concern me is that North Korea has other WMDs and the capacity to deliver them.

They even have the capacity to deliver them to the US. But most suredly they do have to deliver such evil to local allies like South Korea and Japan.

we are talking Wmds in the form of nerve and biological agents.

DonPanic · 2006-10-22 02:29:16

@EuroLauncher
Your links towards China strinkig USA are pure fantasm of pananoïd brains.
Maybe China choosed to compete on economics with the free trade consequences.
When US or Euro will have relocated factories in China, just to make more profits, destroying jobs in USA and Euroland, we'll live on service jobs which do not create anything and have huge deficits, we'll be vulnerable just because the main industrial goods will be made in China.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2006-10-22 12:41:55

I am not concerned about the North Koreans posessing nuclear weapons only that they will sell them and the technology. But what does concern me is that North Korea has other WMDs and the capacity to deliver them.
They even have the capacity to deliver them to the US. But most suredly they do have to deliver such evil to local allies like South Korea and Japan.
we are talking Wmds in the form of nerve and biological agents.

Yeah there shouldn't be so much focus on the dictator's nuclear WMD issue, its in its early stages and Kim's other WMD programs are just as deadly

Tom Kalbfus · 2006-10-24 12:22:17

Yeah, wait till he has 10,000 multiple warhead nuclear missiles pointed at us, then we can take action and the resulting nuclear war will be properly two-sided just the way liberals like it, rather than the one-sided thing it would be today. Liberals like to make it a choice, either everyone has nuclear weapons and a simgle irresponsible act will lead to a global world wide holocaust, or no one has them. If you force the issue between one of these two choices, you will more likely have a world where everyone has them than no one has them. A world with no nuclear weapons is ripe for conquest anyway by some nation who cheats.

DonPanic · 2006-10-25 10:12:44

Yeah, wait till he has 10,000 multiple warhead nuclear missiles pointed at us, then we can take action and the resulting nuclear war will be properly two-sided just the way liberals like it,

What's the hell liberals have to see with a megalomaniac dictator ?
Blues didn't stop him more than Reds, and if ever there is a nuke war, the explosions will not choose the victim's colour

By the way, a song of ours says "no matter the blast power is, the important is where it falls"

Now, whats shows you're an arrant paranoïd is that he'll never have enough plutonium or U235 to have that number of nuke warheads.
In France where we have a lot of available fissile material, we have under 1000 nuke warheads, and among them, about half tactical low power warheads, we don't really know what's the use at because we're cruelly lacking ennemies , except for terrorists, since Russia is among our main gaz providers

Tom Kalbfus · 2006-10-25 12:51:01

In France where we have a lot of available fissile material, we have under 1000 nuke warheads, and among them, about half tactical low power warheads, we don't really know what's the use at because we're cruelly lacking ennemies , except for terrorists, since Russia is among our main gaz providers

France is making the same mistake with Putin as it did with Hitler. What is Putin but a megalomaniac dictator. Look at the history of Hitler's rise to power and now see what Putin is doing to gain the levers of power in his country. Russia is a bigger power than Germany, and look what he's doing to ethnic Georgians in Russia! Looks to me that Putin is making a naked power grab in Russia modeled after Hitler's rise in Germany. Maybe France can ignore this for a while just like it ignored and did business with Mussilini and Hitler, but this can't go on indefinitely. Eventually Putin is going to want something that France has, just like Hitler did. France will continue to sell its neighbors down the pike, like Churchill compared to "feeding the alligator in hopes that he'll eat you last." Eventually if this is allowed to continue, France is going to share a border with Russia, and Putin or someone like him will seek to gain new territory that can only come at Frances expense. France played this game and lost during World War II, do you want to play it again? Ask yourself, what would Napoleon do? Would he want to be dependent on a Russian dictator for his fuel supplies were he alive today?

DonPanic · 2006-10-25 13:56:07

France is making the same mistake with Putin as it did with Hitler. What is Putin but a megalomaniac dictator. Look at the history of Hitler's rise to power and now see what Putin is doing to gain the levers of power in his country. Russia is a bigger power than Germany, and look what he's doing to ethnic Georgians in Russia!

We don't fear Putin, WWII was enough, we've got the lesson, with about the most silent and up to date strategic nuclear subs in the world, able to lie low by -13500 feet depth, with special "skin" to absorb sonar signals, each of them with 96 manoeuverable nuclear warheads plus gulls, able to chrush any ennemy in second strike, dozens of neutrons nuke tactical cruise missiles, I really don't think that Putin's Russia wants to threaten France. Our strategic force units are in small number, but with a top maintenance. Nuclear reentry warheads have aleatory trajectories in order to trick antimissiles. Do you have more good advices for us ?

And some mistake of yours, Germany and France have each actually more industrial power than Russia, we've bought half of the Soyuz production via ArianeEspace to be launched from the Kourou spaceport, for instance. Putin prefers to cooperate.

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