Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms...

Fledi · 2005-08-29 12:46:05

Oh after reading through all of this arguing now I understand why it is in this thread. Some of you sound just like european powers 100 years ago.

BWhite · 2005-08-29 15:52:06

As for clark, Aut insanit homo, aut versus facit

I vote for the verses. But does it rhyme?

Palomar · 2005-08-29 17:07:36

...and no Clark, he didn't exclusively post in free shIt, (Hey, if other people can swear, I should get away with it too! ) Check out some life on Mars threads, for instance, where he had some good quality stuff going on.

*Yes, Shaun was frequently in these threads:

1. Life on Mars
2. Water on Mars
3. Terraformation
4. MOC Pictures (Mars Orbital Camera).
5. Spirit & Opportunity
6. Mars Express

Shaun also was -not- a stranger to Sci & Tech (New Discoveries, Weather Watching and Heliopolis primarily) nor Cassini-Huygens. His plentious posts are still in all those threads for reading (proof), even to the end. I'm hoping he'll come back.

If you'd like for Shaun to come back, please write and tell him so! Thanks

--Cindy

Rxke · 2005-08-30 00:47:55

Do you realize how long it takes to mail a letter from Belgium to Australia??

DonPanic · 2005-08-30 11:41:06

LO
Back from 15 hollidays in center of France province Auvergne,
an ancient hot spot powerful volcano region.
There I went to listen to an american classical music trio amazed to play in a delicious

XIIth century built roman architecture church
with clock tower pointing at the sky as a space vessel
in front of 70 people out from a 700 hundred peoples country village.
One said that in USA, to have such an audience, they should play in a 10000 inhabitants town.

By the way, guess where US long horns cows are originated from ?

Salers, a mountain very resistant to heath and cold race of cows brought to Louisiana by froggies when Louisiana extended up to Baton Rouge

BWhite · 2005-08-30 13:18:44

I never knew the sky in Europe was blue. Wow! Just like America!

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2006-02-03 14:49:32

Muslim extremists are using the furor over the Prophet Mohammed cartoons published in European newspapers to rally the faithful to a jihad (holy war), in several Internet postings.
http://www.metimes.com/articles/normal. … 3023-4266r
"Brothers, it's war against Islam ..., grab your swords," says hardline Saudi cleric Sheikh Badr Bin Nader Al Mashari in a voice recording posted on an Islamist Website.

"Iran's Foreign Ministry delivered a strong protest over the publication of the caricature that insulted the religious sentiments of Muslims," television reported.
http://today.reuters.com/news
It added that Iran's Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki, in a separate letter to his Danish counterpart, had demanded an apology from the Danish government and the newspaper.

Palomar · 2006-02-04 07:39:56

Muslim extremists are using the furor over the Prophet Mohammed cartoons published in European newspapers to rally the faithful to a jihad (holy war), in several Internet postings.
http://www.metimes.com/articles/normal. … 3023-4266r
"Brothers, it's war against Islam ..., grab your swords," says hardline Saudi cleric Sheikh Badr Bin Nader Al Mashari in a voice recording posted on an Islamist Website.
"Iran's Foreign Ministry delivered a strong protest over the publication of the caricature that insulted the religious sentiments of Muslims," television reported.
http://today.reuters.com/news
It added that Iran's Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki, in a separate letter to his Danish counterpart, had demanded an apology from the Danish government and the newspaper.

*Yep. Have been following this elsewhere. There's a bright spot in this: A high-ranking Muslim cleric, an ayatollah (in Iran?), is denouncing the protestors and telling them to calm down. Surprise, surprise (of course he's also denouncing the cartoons).

European media are struggling to preserve freedom of speech and expression in the media/free press; meanwhile the US State Department and the UK gov't are sympathizing with the Muslims. :shock: :?

I'd better never hear another American refer to Europeans as "Eurowimps."

--Cindy

Palomar · 2006-02-04 14:08:07

*This from [URL=http://www.cagle.com/news/BLOG/main.asp]Daryl Cagle's blog[/URL]:

JANUARY 7, 2006
Cartoon Jihads
By Daryl Cagle
Nothing generates anger in the Muslim world like a cartoon. The most recent cartoon-Jihad comes from a Danish newspaper that printed cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad. The Jyllands Posten, Denmark's biggest newspaper, has been bombarded by street protests, international diplomatic incidents and death threats against cartoonists who have gone into hiding, fearing for their lives.
I'm fond of the Jyllands Posten newspaper because they run my cartoons. Reporter Anders Raahauge wrote the report below to cartoonist Doug Marlette who alerted me to the ongoing events:
"To test the limits of self-censorship, we asked all Danish cartoonists to draw Muhammad. We were provoked by the fact that a Danish author of children's books couldn't find any illustrators for his planned, decidedly non-polemic book on the prophet. Twelve cartoonists dared.
"There has been a great uproar. 5000 Danish Muslims protested in the streets of Copenhagen, 12 Muslim ambassadors demanded that our Prime Minister should take immediate and harsh action against (us) which he firmly declined (to do). The ambassadors then complained to the "Organization of the Islamic Conference"; there has been a general strike in Kashmir, and a political party in Pakistan, with Danish affiliations, has put a bounty on the heads of the 12 Danish cartoonists: 50,000 Danish Kroners for each execution."
Danes treasure their press freedoms. The newspaper ran the Muhammad drawings as part of an article about self-censorship in the press, noting that even with a free press defined by law, there are other constraints regarding what can or can't be published. The Danish prime minister refused to meet with ambassadors from 11 Islamic countries, led by Egypt, who objected to Denmark's "smear campaign" and demanded punitive action against the newspaper. The ambassadors then announced a general boycott against Denmark. The United Nations weighed in, conveying sympathies to the offended Islamic countries. Last week, in an apparent concession to the angry Muslims, Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen urged Danes to exercise their rights to free speech without inciting hatred against Muslims. The Danish government had the prime minister's words translated into Arabic and distributed to Middle Eastern countries in the hope of easing the diplomatic crisis. Jyllands Posten's editor-in-chief is quoted as saying, "the next step will be giving orders to suppress the newspaper."
I found the offending cartoons on the web; they are disappointingly dull and it is hard to see how they could make anyone angry (see the cartoons here). Muslims consider any graphic depiction of Muhammad to be taboo. For the Muslim countries, it is a matter of imposing their sensibilities upon the infidels in the West. For the Danish "infidels" at Jyllands Posten, it is a matter of press freedom and an unwillingness to accept restrictions on an absolute and treasured freedom, which includes the right to offend anyone they choose to offend. In America we take our freedom to offend seriously; we would never threaten the lives of artists who paint the Virgin Mary with animal dung, or put a crucifix into a jar of urine -we limit the argument to whether our National Endowment for the Arts will subsidize these artists.
Depictions of Muhammad are not the only cartoons that inspire Islamic rage. Montreal Gazette cartoonist Terry "Aislin" Mosher had a similar experience. In response to a deadly terrorist attack against foreign tourists in Luxor, Egypt, Mosher drew a dog wearing Arab headgear; the dog was labeled "Islamic Extremism" and the caption read, "With Apologies to Dogs Everywhere." Mosher and his newspaper received a flood of Muslim threats and vitriol in a Jihad similar to the situation in Denmark.

That's even worse than the current uproar; didn't involve Muhammad.

A cartoonist whom I syndicate, Sandy Huffaker, drew a cartoon showing an Iraqi holding a book titled, "The Koran for Dummies," and an American soldier asks, "Anything in there about GRATITUDE?" I was bombarded by many thousands of e-mails in a flame campaign instigated by the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), which asked readers on their Web site to e-mail me. The e-mails were hysterical, filled with colorful threats and demands that I fire and punish Huffaker. I posted a big batch of the emails on my Web site and asked my own readers to respond to CAIR. (My Web site has a rather large audience, so I flamed CAIR back.) Being on the other end of a flame campaign may have been a new experience for CAIR, because their flame campaign against me stopped abruptly -or more likely, CAIR saw that the hysterical rantings of their supporters, displayed on my Web site, did not speak well for their cause.

Way go to!

Pulitzer Prize-winning cartoonist Doug Marlette of the Tallahassee Democrat, found himself blasted by a CAIR e-mail Jihad when he drew a cartoon with the caption, "What Would Muhammad Drive?" The drawing showed a man wearing Arab headdress and driving a Ryder truck (a reference to Oklahoma City bomber, Timothy McVeigh). In response to an inquiry from Jyllands Posten, Doug writes, "I was used to negative reactions from religious interest groups, but not the kind of sustained violent intensity of the Islamic threats. The nihilism and culture of death of a religion that sanctions suicide bombers, and issues fatwas on people who draw funny pictures, is certainly of a different order and fanatical magnitude than the protests of our home-grown religious true believers."
Marlette continues, "As a child of the segregated South, I am quite familiar with the damage done to the "good religious people" of my region when the Ku Klux Klan acted in our name. The CAIR organization that led the assault (on me), describes itself as a civil rights advocacy group. Among those whose "civil rights" they advocated were the convicted bombers of the World Trade Center in 1993. They cannot be taken seriously. For many of those who protested my cartoon, recent émigrés, many highly educated, it was obvious that there was not that healthy tradition of free inquiry, humor and irreverence in their background that we have in the west. There was no Jefferson, Madison, Adams in their intellectual tradition. Those who have attacked my work, whether on the right, the left, Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal, Protestant, Catholic, Jewish or Muslim, all seem to experience comic or satirical irreverence as hostility and hate. When all it is, really, is irreverence. Ink on paper is only a thought, an idea. Such people fear ideas. Those who mistake themselves for the God they claim to worship tend to mistake irreverence for blasphemy."
Muslim countries expect the press in Denmark to supress cartoons that would be offensive to them, but they don't extend the same cartoon courtesy to others that they demand for themselves. Cartoons in the Arab press are typically so ugly and racist that American audiences have never seen anything like them. Middle Eastern cartoon venom is targeted toward Israel, often depicting Jews with hooked noses and orthodox garb, sometimes with fangs and bloody teeth, often in the roles of Nazis. The Jews are sometimes shown crucifying Arabs in a "Jews killed Jesus" scenario, or enacting their own concentration camp Holocausts on their neighbors, along with their henchmen, the Americans. The cartoons are designed to be as offensive to Jews as possible, and are seen as nothing out of the ordinary by Middle Eastern newspaper readers.

It's "different" (okay) when THEY do it...?

Unless we defend our funny little drawings with the same zeal that we see from the victims of our irreverence, we'll continue to see our freedoms constricted by the loud voices of those we offend.

Check out Cagle's idea of what Muslims SHOULD be protesting about...

DonPanic · 2006-02-05 05:39:28

European media are struggling to preserve freedom of speech and expression in the media/free press; meanwhile the US State Department and the UK gov't are sympathizing with the Muslims. :shock: :?
I'd better never hear another American refer to Europeans as "Eurowimps."
--Cindy

LO Cindy
Here, you can find the caricatures. French press took the risk to publish them so that everybody could make an opinion about. News papers which published them being prosecuted by extreme left antiracist organisations.
Indeed some are outrageous, others harmless, but muslims overreact, paintings of the prophet did exist in the muslim area, most of the angry muslim demonstrators didn't even saw the cartoons, as well as most of the muslims which condemned Salman Rushdie never read any line of him.
Lot of hysteria from the muslims in this affair.

Earthfirst · 2006-02-06 16:42:33

Freedom of the press is good, so is free spech. I like it because I have the right to call Muhammad a pedifile, murdering, false profit of god. Thats why America so wonderful, I can say what ever I want and not worry about being killed by carzy islamist. If they threaten me and tell me to sensor my self the ACLU would sue the CAIR for preventing me of my right to free talk. I mean this is America not crazy islomist land, here christen views matter. If the Koran gets covered in BS thats great. It's my right as an American citzeen to go out and buy a Koran and a sack of composted steer waste and cover that Koran with the foul oder compost. Then take pictures of it and email to Al jazzera tv. Its just a printed book, go out and buy a new one. Just because some person messed by your so called holy book, does not hurt your belife in Muhammad as the messigener of God. Sure Muhammad used force to spreed the word of God, but he also belived in merce for the weak, women, childern, and for jews and christens. As long as they paid their taxes to go to their churches or temples.
Europe is easy target, dechristened they dont get much bothered by an islamist movement. But the new world christens like in south America, and North America still have that sprit and would love to start up the Holy war, and destory Islam. So muslims jhadist stay away from south america and your holy war. Because they might just fight back. As for the USA, G W Bush is not afaired of you.
Any ways my main point is that its important to protect freedom of speech, other wise we will stop being Americans. Also here in the USA artist often degrade the Holy book, but its their right to free speech. I am not going to start all sorts of trouble because they made me mad.
Also I respect Muhammad and Islam, I would not degrade the koran I just used it as an example,so I support those cartoonist and their work. Because if they get censored, my ideas would be censored next. Freedom of speech is part of being an American.

Rxke · 2006-02-07 02:48:48

As an European, I think the semi-official statements that freedom of speech is more 'holy' than religion strikes me as totally dishonest.

If European freedom of speech is so untouchable, then why can't I get a copy of Mein Kampf in the local library? It is a document of historic importance, IMO.

sFunny, In Belgium we had a unannounced demonstration, organised by muslems, which was organised by cellphones. It started very small, but grew quickly. But there was no violence at all.

Politicians reacted positive to it, saying it was a good freedom-of-speech-exercice in venting frustrations w/o violence. Weird, because in Belgium, you're allowed to demonstrate, but you have to announce it beforehand and even get a permit for it (which always makes me cringe, officially-condoned demonstrations,... that seems so... false)

Stormrage · 2006-02-07 09:36:17

Freedom of Speech? 1 word. BULLSHIT. In some european countries. Saying that the Holocaust never happened can get you arrested and prisioned. Publishing anything that shows Hitler in a good light (even if it's a joke) can be considered anti-semitic thus illegal. Now when a cartoon links Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) to terrorism. It's freedom of speech.

Europe nowdays reminds me of 1930s. It is an exact parallel to what happened to the Jews. Don't forget.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2006-02-07 12:19:38

Freedom of Speech? 1 word. BULLSHIT. In some european countries. Saying that the Holocaust never happened can get you arrested and prisioned. Publishing anything that shows Hitler in a good light (even if it's a joke) can be considered anti-semitic thus illegal. Now when a cartoon links Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) to terrorism. It's freedom of speech.

Holocaust happened - this is fact. Hitler killed many, we have documents and photos which showed he murdered many gypsies, german and millions of jews. In some Euro nations holocaust denial will mean jail time, in other European countries its ok but people will think you're a bit crazy.

In Europe you may get some fine or jail time for this but at least they don't go around in big religious hooligan mobs lynching people, burning down embassies of the sinners and calling for the killing of other 'infidels' over some stupid cartoon joke. My thoughts - most Religion stinks, the Buddists hurt people in the past, the Isrealis did crap, and at one time Christians used to burn 'witches' but radical nuts in the Islamic world are not a thing of the past, they are alive and well today. The radical cleric on some English news channel actually claiming that an EU citizen should be tried and executed in an Islamic court for portraying a prophet, these zealot protestors have to accept that the whole world isn't under Islamic law, but in British society there were protests where a parent feels free enough to have their child wear a 'I love al-Qaeda' hat, there were many loony crackpots in London with about 500 demonstrators chanting "Kill, kill Denmark!" and burning that country's flag as they passed the Danish embassy in a march from Regent's Park mosque.

Palomar · 2006-02-07 12:38:36

European media are struggling to preserve freedom of speech and expression in the media/free press; meanwhile the US State Department and the UK gov't are sympathizing with the Muslims. :shock: :?
I'd better never hear another American refer to Europeans as "Eurowimps."
LO Cindy
Here, you can find the caricatures. French press took the risk to publish them so that everybody could make an opinion about. News papers which published them being prosecuted by extreme left antiracist organisations.
Indeed some are outrageous, others harmless, but muslims overreact, paintings of the prophet did exist in the muslim area, most of the angry muslim demonstrators didn't even saw the cartoons, as well as most of the muslims which condemned Salman Rushdie never read any line of him.
Lot of hysteria from the muslims in this affair.

*Hi DonPanic. Thank you. Here's something I posted elsewhere:

Protesters torch Danish mission: Clerics urge calm

One of the best articles yet:

BEIRUT, Lebanon - Muslim rage over caricatures of the prophet Muhammad grew increasingly violent Sunday as thousands of rampaging protesters — undaunted by tear gas and water cannons — torched the Danish mission and ransacked a Christian neighborhood.
Muslim clerics denounced the violence, with some wading into the mobs trying to stop them.

Dangerous for those clerics, but this is a definite ray of hope. They must be commended.

The protesters, armed with stones and sticks, seized fire engines, overturned police vehicles and garbage containers for use as barricades, damaged cars and threw stones at a Maronite Catholic church

::shakes head:: Though the Catholic church had nothing to do with this and despite the Vatican putting forth an official statement denouncing the re-publication of those cartoons.

Sabei, like other Lebanese politicians and Grand Mufti Mohammed Rashid Kabbani, spiritual leader of Lebanon's Sunni Muslims, suggested Islamic radicals had fanned the anger of the crowds.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem like it takes much...

Kabbani said outsiders among the protesters were trying to ... "distort the image of Islam."

And they're doing a fine job of it.

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said in a statement that the resentment over the caricatures "cannot justify violence, least of all when directed at people who have no responsibility for, or control over, the publications in question."

If they won't listen to their clerics they won't listen to you...

Afghan President Hamid Karzai urged forgiveness.
"God instructs us to forgive. Therefore, we — as much as we condemn it strongly — must stay above this dispute and not bring ourselves ... to equating ourselves to those who have published the cartoons," he said on CNN's "Late Edition."

Wow. Another ray of hope. I'm glad cooler heads are speaking up and trying to prevent the situation from escalating further.

Stepping up the pressure, the Islamic Army in Iraq, a key group in the insurgency fighting U.S.-led and Iraqi forces, posted a second Internet statement Sunday calling for gruesome violence against citizens of countries where the caricatures have been published.

Rotten dogs, you're long past due for your rabies vaccination.

"Regretfully, the march did more harm to the prophet than it did good"

Vast understatement.

said Sunni Sheik Ibrahim Ibrahim, who was in the crowd, adding that those who attacked the church were "hooligans." He said he and others tried to stop the mob, but "we got stones and insults."

Wow. I commend him and the other Muslim clerics who are trying to bring calm and order to this situation.

-*-

Unfortunately the latest headline is that of an Iranian cleric calling for the West to caricaturize the Holocaust. It's not the same thing. And does he need to see caricatures of the Holocaust [I lost relatives to the Nazis; Czech villagers during the Nazi invasion of that country]? He already has: There are apparently plenty of caricatures to that effect already drawn in Arab papers for years. But then he's operating under a "president" who'd like to obliterate Israel off the face of the Earth. Denmark didn't initiate the Nazi Holocaust and was itself a victim of it, as were other European nations. He's maliciously misdirecting the matter; plenty of non-Jewish/Arab people suffered and died in the Holocaust -- themselves white Europeans. How conveniently that's forgotten...but of course they'll try and make it a "Jews vs Arabs" fight (same old tired song).

--Cindy

Stormrage · 2006-02-07 13:44:25

Freedom of Speech? 1 word. BULLSHIT. In some european countries. Saying that the Holocaust never happened can get you arrested and prisioned. Publishing anything that shows Hitler in a good light (even if it's a joke) can be considered anti-semitic thus illegal. Now when a cartoon links Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) to terrorism. It's freedom of speech.

Holocaust happened - this is fact. Hitler killed many, we have documents and photos which showed he murdered many gypsies, german and millions of jews. In some Euro nations holocaust denial will mean jail time, in other European countries its ok but people will think you're a bit crazy.
In Europe you may get some fine or jail time for this but at least they don't go around in big religious hooligan mobs lynching people, burning down embassies of the sinners and calling for the killing of other 'infidels' over some stupid cartoon joke. My thoughts - most Religion stinks, the Buddists hurt people in the past, the Isrealis did crap, and at one time Christians used to burn 'witches' but radical nuts in the Islamic world are not a thing of the past, they are alive and well today. The radical cleric on some English news channel actually claiming that an EU citizen should be tried and executed in an Islamic court for portraying a prophet, these zealot protestors have to accept that the whole world isn't under Islamic law, but in British society there were protests where a parent feels free enough to have their child wear a 'I love al-Qaeda' hat, there were many loony crackpots in London with about 500 demonstrators chanting "Kill, kill Denmark!" and burning that country's flag as they passed the Danish embassy in a march from Regent's Park mosque.

Hey. It's freedom of speech. You can't defend it one minute and then complain about it the next (e.g. the guy wearing sucide vest has a statement of his anger. Not a real one though)

Rxke · 2006-02-07 13:54:34

One of the best articles yet:
Quote:
BEIRUT, Lebanon - Muslim rage over caricatures of the prophet Muhammad grew increasingly violent Sunday as thousands of rampaging protesters — undaunted by tear gas and water cannons — torched the Danish mission and ransacked a Christian neighborhood.
Muslim clerics denounced the violence, with some wading into the mobs trying to stop them.

i saw footage of that yesterday in the news. Those guys really trying to calm the mobs, getting in to the thick, but try preaching to a crazed crowd..

it's probably a handful of agents-provocateurs, whipping up poor, uneducated masses. History repeating itself, an age-old story, sigh.

Palomar · 2006-02-07 15:47:04

FEBRUARY 7, 2006
SEE DARYL ON TV AGAIN TODAY
I'll be on The Abrams Report on MSNBC at 6:00 Eastern Time and 3:00 Pacific time. Tune in to see me talking about the Muhammad cartoons with three other people talking at the same time.
MY NEWSPAPER COLUMN FOR TUESDAY
Reprinting Those Horrible, Offensive Muhammad Cartoons
By Daryl Cagle
There are riots around the Muslim world, with embassies burning; and 12 poor Danish cartoonists who now fear for their lives have gone into hiding, under 24-hour police protection, as millions of angry Muslims call for their execution. Anyone who hasn't seen the cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad must think they are jarringly offensive and since very few newspapers in America have chosen to print the cartoons, what else is there to think?
To Muslims, depictions of people - and especially depictions of Muhammad - are forbidden, so it doesn't matter if the cartoons make a statement or not; the very idea that cartoons of Muhammad exist is offensive. To a Western eye, there is little that is offensive in the cartoons. News reports refer to the "Danish cartoons including one showing a bomb in Muhammad's turban," and even that is an exaggeration, describing the 12 cartoons by mentioning only the one that Westerners could imagine causing some offense. Truly offensive cartoons, which never appeared in the Danish newspaper, have been circulated to Muslim crowds to whip up their angry religious fervor.
The overblown reaction in Muslim countries to the blasphemy of the cartoons is what the story has become, as streets filled with violent protestors demand that the infidels in other countries respect a Muslim taboo. Clearly there are many in the Muslim world that are eager to stoke the fires of a clash of civilizations; they think they have found their popular issue with the cartoons.
Politically correct commentators in the West devote equal time to condemning Denmark's Jyllands-Posten newspaper as they do for the crowds that are burning embassies and inciting even more violence. Almost every newspaper in America has refused to reprint the cartoons, leaving readers to believe that if they saw the cartoons, they would be offended too. In fact, if American readers saw the cartoons we would say, "This? This is what makes them so angry? That's crazy!"
New and truly offensive Muhammad images are popping up all over the Web. The images show a Muhammad toy on a Lego box, having sex with an underage Lego Aysha girl, Muhammad on products such as urinals and toilet paper, and lots of usage of the original Danish cartoons, revamped to make them more offensive with references to sex, pork, drugs and Danish products that are boycotted in Arab countries.
Not to be outdone, a Belgian-Dutch Islamic political organization, the Arab European League (AEL) has started posting cartoons that they think will be as offensive as possible to the Danish. They describe their effort this way:
"After the lectures that Arabs and Muslims received from Europeans on Freedom of Speech and on Tolerance. And after ... many European newspapers republished the Danish cartoons on the Prophet Mohammed. AEL decided to enter the cartoon business and to use our right to artistic expression. Just like the newspapers in Europe claim that they only want to defend the freedom of speech and do not desire to stigmatize Muslims, we also do stress that our cartoons are not meant as an offence to anybody and ought not to be taken as a statement against any group, community or historical fact. If it is the time to break Taboos and cross all the red lines, we certainly do not want to stay behind."
One cartoon on the AEL site has gotten the most attention; it features Holocaust victim Anne Frank in bed with Adolf Hitler, apparently after having sex, Hitler smokes a cigarette and says, "Write this one in your diary, Anne." Aside from that cartoon, it appears that the cartoons that the AEL thinks will be most offensive to Danes are anti-Semitic and Holocaust denial cartoons that are not different from what passes as everyday fare in Arab newspapers. Of course, for the AEL to make their point effectively, we'll need to see the Danes respond by marching in the streets, burning embassies, and calling for the executions of AEL cartoonists.
The proper response to an insult in the press is to respond with more speech, rather than violence in the streets, and the escalating war of offensive cartoons is simply speech. But as the reactions become uglier, readers may believe that the truly offensive images they see on the Web are the kind of cartoons that set off this clash of civilizations --*rather than the dull, banal Danish cartoons that they haven't seen.--* It is important that readers understand what a small spark set off this religious bomb.American editors should rethink their decision not to reprint the original Danish cartoons.

That from Daryl Cagle's Blog

Stormrage:

Saying that the Holocaust never happened can get you arrested and prisioned. Publishing anything that shows Hitler in a good light (even if it's a joke) can be considered anti-semitic thus illegal.

I'm an American and that's not illegal here.

I'd remind you that Brigette Bardot, the French film actress, has gotten into legal trouble in France more than once for making her private (negative) views about Muslims publically known (exercising her freedom of speech/expression). So it's not just the Jews/Israelis getting preferential treatment occasionally...

But to reiterate, this particular situation isn't about Jews versus Arabs... unless of course you believe the media are Jewish owned/controlled?

--Cindy

Stormrage · 2006-02-08 02:11:07

Palomar wrote:

Stormrage:
Saying that the Holocaust never happened can get you arrested and prisioned. Publishing anything that shows Hitler in a good light (even if it's a joke) can be considered anti-semitic thus illegal.
I'm an American and that's not illegal here.
I'd remind you that Brigette Bardot, the French film actress, has gotten into legal trouble in France more than once for making her private (negative) views about Muslims publically known (exercising her freedom of speech/expression). So it's not just the Jews/Israelis getting preferential treatment occasionally...
But to reiterate, this particular situation isn't about Jews versus Arabs... unless of course you believe the media are Jewish owned/controlled?
--Cindy

I am not saying Jews get treated preferentially than muslims. The reason why European law protects Jews was because they felt ashamed because of their inaction during the war and some countries even helped the Nazis (e.g. Austria,France). They passed these laws to make sure it never happened. If the Holocaust never happened or happened in some where else like Canda. Jews wouldn't be protected. They would face this "freedom of speech" like Muslims do. The reason why Brigitte Bardot got in trouble was because she encouraged the massacre of civilans in Algeria. Not because she is an islamophobiast. If she simply said that Muslims were such and such then she wouldn't be touched by the law. Europe leaves people like these alone has long has they don't ask for death. Like Theo van gogh. Who is treated like a Hero. Despite his refering to muslims has goat fuckers.
btw what makes you think i believe jews control the media?

"...all I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by."

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Re: Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms...

#239 2006-02-07 12:19:38

Re: Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms...

#240 2006-02-07 12:38:36

Re: Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms...

#241 2006-02-07 13:44:25

Re: Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms...

#242 2006-02-07 13:54:34

Re: Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms...

#243 2006-02-07 15:47:04

Re: Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms...

#244 2006-02-08 02:11:07

Re: Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms...

#245 2006-02-08 13:04:12

Re: Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms...

#246 2006-02-15 02:17:38

Re: Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms...

#247 2006-02-15 17:17:18

Re: Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms...

#248 2006-02-16 05:52:39

Re: Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms...

#249 2022-05-27 10:24:37

Re: Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms...

#250 2022-06-17 10:10:13

Re: Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms...

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