New Mars Forums

Byron

Member

From: Florida, USA

Registered: 2002-05-16

Posts: 844

Re: Thought Experiment III

Clark, didn't we already do this in the 'island' scenario?  I guess you're attempting to reduce this baby dilemma into a simpler and easier-to-understand scenario...lol...you really want to drive this point about birthing limitations home, don't you? 

As I have a weakness for these 'thought experiments' and whatnot, I'll go ahead and toss my answer in the hat.

In this actual situation you have described, in which the rate of aquiring new supplies barely exceeds the needs of the group...I say hold off on the baby.  The risk is plainly obvious in this situation, and my life ranks a bit higher than the couple's desire to have a child.  This is one thing humans are generally good at, which is prioritizing...if the risk of having a child is obvious, it really shouldn't be too hard to convince the parents-to-be that having a child in this type of situation would be a very bad idea.  Any parent foolish enough to bring a helpless child into such a high-risk environment do not deserve to be parents in the first place...

B

Josh Cryer

Moderator

Registered: 2001-09-29

Posts: 3,830

Re: Thought Experiment III

Heh! clark, they have no hope of reaching equilibrium with their ecosystem. They are destined to die, no matter what they do. There is no solution. A child doesn't consume much resources, but if I were to let them have a child, it would be a death sentence for the child.

At 9 months in the womb, the child will live at most to be 1.3 years old. Very disturbing. The parents are selfish individuals who need psychological help immediately. Too bad they're stranded on a boat.

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Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
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The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

Auqakah

Member

From: England

Registered: 2002-07-13

Posts: 175

Re: Thought Experiment III

I wouldn't get into this situation; it just proves my theory: one should always fly when possible. And if its not possible, why do you need to go there?

   

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Ex Astra, Scienta

Auqakah

Member

From: England

Registered: 2002-07-13

Posts: 175

Re: Thought Experiment III

Incidentally, I was originally going to say kill the other couple. But I decided not to, on the grounds that it wouldn't be... Damn. I forgot what I was going to say. At any rate... I think that made sense, in a way, didn't it? Eat the other couple. Then use the left-overs to bait fish.   

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Ex Astra, Scienta

Shaun Barrett

Member

From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia

Registered: 2001-12-28

Posts: 2,843

Re: Thought Experiment III

I heard we taste like pork.
                                            :0

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The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

Josh Cryer

Moderator

Registered: 2001-09-29

Posts: 3,830

Re: Thought Experiment III

Heh, I have a book that discusses human cannibalism in length. Apparently it used to happen a lot with people who were stuck on boats or islands hundreds of years ago, without food or water.

The worst / saddest / story was one where this woman and her lover were on a boat together, for two months they drifted, along with the rest of the crew. Their food ran out, and people started dying (of both starvation and thirst). Her lover told her to kill him and drink his blood. She wouldn't do it. A few days later, though, the thirst and hunger was so overwhelming, she finally did. She cut his throat and drank from his neck, almost vampire-esque. Heh.

The part that was most disturbing, was that they were rescued a day or so later. Apparently she went crazy because of that.

I gotta find that book, had some interesting stories.

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Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
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The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

Josh Cryer

Moderator

Registered: 2001-09-29

Posts: 3,830

Re: Thought Experiment III

Oh, BTW, clark, the men wouldn't sustain the women for 9 months during their pregnancy. So eating them to produce new food is unrealistic.

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Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
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The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: Thought Experiment III

I heard we taste like pork.
                                            :0

*Not me!  I taste like a Grade A Quality medium-well filet mignon and two-layer chocolate cake for dessert! 

--Cindy

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Josh Cryer

Moderator

Registered: 2001-09-29

Posts: 3,830

Re: Thought Experiment III

Dang Cindy, remind me to take you on trips where starving is a possibility! 

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Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
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The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: Thought Experiment III

Dang Cindy, remind me to take you on trips where starving is a possibility! 

*Hmmm.  Josh, if I ever meet you at a Mars Society convention, please be sure to introduce yourself and shake my hand BEFORE you bite! 

--Cindy 

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Auqakah

Member

From: England

Registered: 2002-07-13

Posts: 175

Re: Thought Experiment III

By the way, I was watching a programme on tv the other evening about cannabalism. Apparently, in this country (Britain), as near as the century before last (that would be C19th, for those who might have forgotten ) people were gathering at hangings with CUPS in hand. Why? Because it was widely believed that drinking human blood was very, very good for you. In fact, you would gain a small amount of the stamina/whatnot that the person who's blood it was, for a small amount of time. And, the effect was stronger if it wasn't a natural death. And the more sudden, the better. Because more energy would be left behind, or something like that. And the blood had to still be warm.... Also, there was eating of certain parts of the body, too. Can't remember which parts, though. But it wasn't called cannabalism, because it was for medicinal purposes. In fact, cannabalism wasn't actually considered all that awful - as long as it was unforced cannabalism (eating someone who was already dead and that hadn't been killed for that purpose) in other words - until the last couple of centuries.

And in South America, as little as fifty years ago, there was a village - quite a part of civilization, too - that practiced cannabalism as a matter of respect. When someone died, the men of the village would eat the best parts of them. But the majority of the person that was left, the woman and children would get, as the men were the only ones allowed to eat beef or fowl or whatever. Ughhhh.

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Ex Astra, Scienta

CalTech2010

Member

From: United States, Colorado

Registered: 2002-11-23

Posts: 433

Re: Thought Experiment III

I'd try to store resources up to a point where I was certain that the population could support another birth.

However, I don't think I'd let my child grow up on a drifting boat...

I still like the rock/necktie castration idea, though! 

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"Some have met another fate.  Let's put it this way... they no longer pose a threat to the US or its allies and friends." -- President Bush, State of the Union Address