The World Trade Center - Should the twin towers be rebuilt?

Phobos · 2002-09-12 19:52:26

Wow Pat, I'm glad you made it out alive.

I say build it. Bigger than it was before. Let THAT be our memorial to those who died. Let it say, "You can knock us down but we'll keep coming back." A memorial on the former building site dwells to much on the past, and I think America is about looking to tomorrow and making it better for all.

It's likely that whatever is rebuilt there will probably be high on the list of targets anyway regardless of how tall it is. So I agree 110%, we can't let the scumbags intimidate us into being cowards, build 'em high!

But that was the problem. Against whom?! The perpetrators were a group of ignorant, intolerant, benighted, religious bigots, spread out in 'cells' all over the planet.

I think that's one of the biggest evils that has happened since 9-11, how these barbarian terrorists have caused grief to come upon so many Arabs and middle of the road Muslims. A few bad apples are giving the whole group a bad name. And like you said, it's hard to find your enemy when they're just loose knit groups of fanatics with no national boundaries.

Shaun Barrett · 2002-09-12 19:54:30

There has been so much written lately about how they're persuading carbon nanotubes to grow longer and longer. It's surely just a matter of time until we can make strings, ropes, and cables out of pure uninterrupted lengths of nanotube.
Might such fibres be useful in the building industry to reinforce tall structures? I know they'd need to be bonded to some form of fire-retarding material because of their susceptibility to flame. But imagine the strength and lightness of such reinforcing!
In the same way that kevlar stops bullets, could skyscrapers perhaps be made more resistant to massive impacts? Even if the integrity of a structure could just be maintained long enough to get everybody out, that would certainly justify the effort.
But what if we could make tall buildings so strong that even a fully-laden 747 couldn't topple them? Would that eliminate such buildings as a terrorist target all together?
:0

Phobos · 2002-09-12 20:04:52

There has been so much written lately about how they're persuading carbon nanotubes to grow longer and longer. It's surely just a matter of time until we can make strings, ropes, and cables out of pure uninterrupted lengths of nanotube.
Might such fibres be useful in the building industry to reinforce tall structures? I know they'd need to be bonded to some form of fire-retarding material because of their susceptibility to flame. But imagine the strength and lightness of such reinforcing!

I hadn't thought about using carbon nano-tubes as a material for structural components in buildings. But if they're 100x stronger than steel you could probably build those things all the way to the Moon. That susceptibility to flame is beginning to worry me about space elevators though. Damn it, there's always some kind of monkey wrench. How do you fireproof a space tether? Would lightning strikes or the friction of the platform that rides it have a potential to light it up? OK, I'll get back on topic.

Mark S · 2002-09-12 22:43:25

I think that's one of the biggest evils that has happened since 9-11, how these barbarian terrorists have caused grief to come upon so many Arabs and middle of the road Muslims. A few bad apples are giving the whole group a bad name. And like you said, it's hard to find your enemy when they're just loose knit groups of fanatics with no national boundaries.

9/11 was an allegory for the fate that Islam has suffered since that infamous date. The Wahhabi terrorists hijacked the faith and did their best to destroy it. And, I'm ashamed to say, some Americans turned their anger into blind rage against Muslims, Arabs, and anybody from that general area of the world (including Indians, who have their own battle to fight against the Wahhabis.) But looking back over the past year, I think that Americans in general have gained a better understanding of Islam. Although some highly-visible Muslims have embraced teachings like "kill the infidel," more people are finally observing those who emphasize teachings like "make a pilgrimmage to Mecca" and "give alms to the poor."

Palomar · 2002-09-13 09:17:31

I think that's one of the biggest evils that has happened since 9-11, how these barbarian terrorists have caused grief to come upon so many Arabs and middle of the road Muslims. A few bad apples are giving the whole group a bad name. And like you said, it's hard to find your enemy when they're just loose knit groups of fanatics with no national boundaries.

Mark S: 9/11 was an allegory for the fate that Islam has suffered since that infamous date. The Wahhabi terrorists hijacked the faith and did their best to destroy it. And, I'm ashamed to say, some Americans turned their anger into blind rage against Muslims, Arabs, and anybody from that general area of the world (including Indians, who have their own battle to fight against the Wahhabis.) But looking back over the past year, I think that Americans in general have gained a better understanding of Islam. Although some highly-visible Muslims have embraced teachings like "kill the infidel," more people are finally observing those who emphasize teachings like "make a pilgrimmage to Mecca" and "give alms to the poor."

****

*In my small city, the night of the 9/11 attacks, the mosque here in town had a cross thrown onto its property; the mosque also received telephone threats. The local Jewish rabbi and two Christian preachers appeared at an interfaith conference with the Islamic leader here in town; their photo was on the front page of the local newspaper. They were all seated at a table, facing the camera, each with their respective holy books, and holding each other's hands in the air, as a sign of support. I was touched by this. I called the mosque myself, identified myself by name and as a nonreligious person, gave my phone number, and told them that I know many Muslims are NOT bad, terroristic, blood-thirsty people.

It's also sad that Sikhs and Hindus were made targets of rage in the aftermath of 9/11 [because they were mistaken, in their appearance, for Muslims].

I do wish, however, that the Islamic community as a whole would be more outspoken/visible in their denouncements of terrorism by people claiming to share their religion/faith. Silence can be misconstrued as giving consent, like it or not, and for decades we've seen people claiming to be devout Muslims hijacking airplanes, bombing U.S. embassies, kidnapping and murdering U.S. citizens, on and on. If it were my religion, and people were doing crazy, brutal things like this IN THE NAME of my religion, I'd make my voice of protest against them heard. Of course, this doesn't just apply to one religion/belief system.

BTW, it looks as though my initial post on this matter [I started the thread] has disappeared into some cyberoblivion...

--Cindy

Pat Galea · 2002-09-13 15:22:06

Pat, may I ask if you were still in NYC on September 11th? If so, would you care to share what you saw? Just curious.

No; luckily, we missed the whole thing by a few hours.

We actually managed to get home just in time to switch the TV on just after the first impact. It was pretty weird; do you know that feeling you get when you've just been somewhere else for a while, and when you come home for a few hours you don't really feel like you're home yet? That's how we felt, like the WTC was still just down the road. We still had unpacked shopping in our luggage from there. (I keep getting these odd thoughts; what would we have thought if, when our shopping was being placed in the bags, someone said to us "by the time you unpack that, none of these buildings will be standing"?)

I started getting lots of phone calls from friends and colleagues who knew we'd been there, but didn't know exactly when we were coming back.

I called my mother and told her "I just wanted to let you know that we're back safe from New York." She replied "Oh, that's nice!" I said "God, haven't you seen the NEWS???"

Some strange things I noticed in the aftermath. Initially, I felt this huge relief that we'd just missed it. But after a couple of days, I started to get a massive feeling of guilt; like I was saying to myself "you always say how much you love New York, but you weren't even there when this happened. You left just hours before!"

It's ridiculous, of course. What the hell could we have done if we'd been there, other than run away very fast and sit around waiting for the air travel system to get sorted out?

It's interesting because I think of myself as a very logical person, not given to silly emotional whimsies. And yet I still feel this pang of guilt today.

I spoke to someone about this a while back, and he said that it's an absolutely typical reaction called "survivor guilt". It doesn't even matter how physically close you've been to the disaster; you just have to feel that it could have been you but it wasn't. I'd never have guessed that I would feel that way.

Of course, I have to add that my small pangs are of absolutely no consequence compared to the very real suffering of those who were in the disaster, and their friends and family.

Palomar · 2002-09-13 15:36:31

*Adrian: This thread is losing posts! My initial post is gone; Shaun Barrett wrote the 2nd post, and it's gone too.

--Cindy

Adrian · 2002-09-13 17:49:28

Ack! I don't know why this is happening. It seems to be a relatively isolated phenomenon on threads, thankfully, and I can correct it to a certain extent by 'rebuilding' the thread.

I'm going to upgrade the board when I get back to university next month, so maybe the problem will go away then. To be honest, I'm a bit apprehensive about upgrading the board because it will require some work on the database but this time I'll make sure I have a good backup available.

CalTech2010 · 2002-11-30 22:35:52

TWO POINTS:

I agree with you, Ranger. As a matter of fact, if we don't build those buildings bigger and better, I think we should make an EXACT REPLICA. It might bring back some bad memories to some New Yorkers, but I think it would be a great tribute to the Amerian spirit to see that building towering over New York Harbor once again.

On the Nanotubes point, buildings need some give so they can sway when the wind blows. I'm not a structural engineer, but when the wind blows, won't all of the energy of the wind be transfered to the fibers in the building? Although, I suppose if it is 100x stronger than steel, the building won't sway at all!

Just some thoughts...

soph · 2002-12-04 19:39:10

not an exact replica. i live 20 miles away from the city, so ive seen them many, many times. they lacked style, they were literally 100 story tall rectangles. they should be rebuilt, but with beauty. ive seen structural concepts, forgot what its called (torqued?) where the building is sort of spiraling, which adds strength to the building, and it looks really amazing.

CalTech2010 · 2002-12-06 22:00:46

My initial 9/11 reaction was that we should build the towers bigger, better, and more beautiful than before. I favored two black glass towers, at 125 stories. I stopped liking this idea because black buildings, in New York, in the summer, will be extremly hard to keep air conditioned.

I like the replica idea because it is rubbing the terrorists nose in their own mess. It's like saying,"yes, you destroyed the first one, but you couldn't keep it down."

As for the "torque" (?) idea, I like that too. It would be nice to see some non-utilitarian architecture on the Manhattan Skyline.

CalTech2010 · 2002-12-08 22:34:25

I don't know... it just seems that if we do anything in rebuilding the towers smaller than before, we've lost the fight. Not to be stubborn or too proud, I'm just saying that I think a sacrifice in efficiency would in my mind be worth the symbolism we would re-establish in rebuilding the towers.

Anybody know about Nanotubes and how energy dissipates when wind hits them? There were some posts about building structures out of nanotubes, and I was wondering about how the material would take building sway (if it swayed at all)

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#1 2002-09-12 19:52:26

Re: The World Trade Center - Should the twin towers be rebuilt?

#2 2002-09-12 19:54:30

Re: The World Trade Center - Should the twin towers be rebuilt?

#3 2002-09-12 20:04:52

Re: The World Trade Center - Should the twin towers be rebuilt?

#4 2002-09-12 22:43:25

Re: The World Trade Center - Should the twin towers be rebuilt?

#5 2002-09-13 09:17:31

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#6 2002-09-13 15:22:06

Re: The World Trade Center - Should the twin towers be rebuilt?

#7 2002-09-13 15:36:31

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#8 2002-09-13 17:49:28

Re: The World Trade Center - Should the twin towers be rebuilt?

#9 2002-11-30 22:35:52

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#10 2002-12-04 19:39:10

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#11 2002-12-06 22:00:46

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#12 2002-12-08 22:34:25

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