Dr. Jeff Bell - Strikes again

BWhite · 2004-07-19 21:33:25

Mea culpa if a previous thread offered http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-04u.html]this.

GCNRevenger · 2004-07-19 21:47:46

Keep in mind that Jeffy Bell is one of the genuine dyed-in-the-wool members of the Cabal of Nasa Haters where they can do absolutely nothing right. He is also a professional astronomer, and the only contstructive thing he has had to say that I know of from any of his writings - which tend to rant quite a bit and set up lots of straw men - is that "Its Time For Hubble II." Which we can't afford with Shuttle/ISS nor will likly be built under PlanBush... that more or less said that NASA was completly incompetant at manned spaceflight and ought to just build space telescopes and probes.

Convienant, since he is in the telescope busienss, no?

I agree that the ISS is not in that great of a shape, and it is deteriorating, but anything that comes out of his mouth ought to be taken with a grain of salt... take for instance the title of another pundits' reply: "Jeffery Bell and the Legions of Doom." The ISS is probobly safe enough to inhabit until the end of the Shuttle flights, but its questionable beyond that... And originally if the ISS were designed with cheap replacement part launch by Shuttle, what is dishonest or evil about that? Sure its a mistake, but it isn't a deception.

The ISS was designed from the start to be wedded with Shuttle, its design life is supposed to be with Shuttle support, which it is not getting. Jeffy Bell is taking the design life out of context and twisting the meaning of it to suit his story. And why mount big things on the outside of the station? Well thats easy, because there isn't that much space INSIDE the station. Pressurized volume is expensive and heavy, duh.

BWhite · 2004-07-19 22:23:50

Not directly on topic, yet two Senators appear to want to extend the orbiter program as long as possible.

Did they http://www.flatoday.com/news/space/stor … N.htm]miss the memo where GWB vowed to retire the orbiter by 2010 come hell or high water?

= = =

Another quote:

This January, the President proposed a dramatic vision for 21st-century space exploration. This ambitious plan puts NASA on course to revisit the moon and set its sights on Mars.

Visit the Moon, aim for Mars. Okay, I can live with that.

GCNRevenger · 2004-07-19 22:52:50

The speech is so jam-packed with fallacies and appeals to emotion that I think I will be ill... Shuttle as a means of efficent launch is a terrible failure. And launch is exactly what we need to go beyond Earth orbit... the cost to operate Shuttle as combination crew ferry and cargo hauler is a fraudulent excuse... you don't need a crew to deliver cargo, and it would be less expensive to develop and operate two different vehicles for these two different purposes.

The "experience" of Shuttle is that the vehicle is not good enough to do what it needs to do for "ISS and beyond"... sticking with Shuttle IS complacency, that is, sticking with hardware you know for fact is not good enough. It is the only vehicle that can reasonably finish ISS, since ISS was designed for Shuttle, but to think that Shuttle is the only vehicle that can fulfill PlanBush is just pig-headed stupidity or bald lies... it surely cannot, and its huge cost precludes PlanBush.

Cost overruns? Are these guys serious? Shuttle and its wicked stepchild the ISS are the definition of "cost overruns."

And after the ISS "international comittment" is fulfilled and the station reached Core Complete... then there won't be any more comittments.

And another beautiful polit-iking tidbit, "...the space shuttle will serve as an insurance policy against predictable problems." The high cost and low reliability of Shuttle IS a predictable problem, dearest Senator.

And if going in circles for 30 years with little to show for it isn't "paralyze our space program" then I don't know what it is...

Its really quite simple... there is almost enough money in the NASA budget to do PlanBush, or somthing like it, but not enough to do Shuttle/ISS too forever. Since ISS is worthless even if Shuttle flies, and Shuttle is worthless without ISS, and the whole of NASA's manned spaceflight program condemned to death without Shuttle/ISS or PlanBush... the choice is clear.

Since these senators are from Texas and Florida, the heart of the Shuttle Army, they are just trying to keep their army employed...

Palomar · 2004-07-20 04:57:01

*Jeff Bell, the Anne Coulter of the space exploration/astronomy set.

Let's just hope he doesn't begin referring to his opponents by that double-sexist slap in the face, i.e. "girlie men" (which Coulter has used on occasion and now the Governor of California as well).

--Cindy

BWhite · 2004-07-20 20:05:51

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-04v.html]Bell blasts sub-orbital tourism.

GCNRevenger · 2004-07-20 20:18:04

He is right... the physics of the whole concept of spaceflight stand squarely in the path of anything but little SO hops for the filthy rich.

BWhite · 2004-07-20 21:01:59

Go http://www.hobbyspace.com/Links/RLVNews.html]here and scroll down to SUBORBITAL BOMBAST:

Suborbital bombast... Perhaps Prof. Lynch should leave sounding rocket research anyway since Prof. Jeffery Bell, also known as The God of AeroSpace (GAS), says rockets don't reach space if they don't reach orbit: StuntShipOne: The GeeBee Of Outer Space - SpaceDaily - July.20.04. Be sure to put on your raincoat and galoshes before encountering this mudslinging screed.
He gives the usual criticisms of suborbitals that aren't worth revisiting. However, there is an attitude that I do want to address. Scientists in basic research, especially in an area like space science, often spend whole careers and tons of public money in the pursuit of esoteric matters that never lead even indirectly to a single solitary practical application in the "real world". Yet they don't seem the slightest bit embarrassed to receive accolades, tenure, and even prizes
On the other hand, if an engineer in R&D like Burt Rutan develops a virtually endless stream of new technologies and techniques but doesn't directly create a product as popular as pens and pencils, an academic like GAS feels perfectly justified in trashing him.
That "basic engineering" is not given the same respect and prestige as basic science is not a rational, defensible attitude. It arises from the fact that science traditionally has taken place within the ivory tower university environment where all pursuits are pure, just, and noble. Engineering mostly happens out there in the grubby, ugly world of commercial enterprise where everybody is only after the ugly buck. However, we should remember that it is that world of practical engineering that created the wealth that pays for all that basic research.
Of course, many scientists feel successful engineering is just a trivial consequence of good science. Actually, it's often the other way around.
BTW, someone should send Bell a link to ZERO-G. He should also be told never to ride on a 777 or the future Boeing 7E7 since they are 12% and 50% composite, respectively. He should certainly never launch any science payloads on the Orbital Sciences Pegasus, which was designed in partnership with Scaled Composites and which is built with components from the company.

The original has lots of extra links. . .

Palomar · 2004-07-21 05:38:16

Go http://www.hobbyspace.com/Links/RLVNews.html]here and scroll down to SUBORBITAL BOMBAST:
Suborbital bombast... Perhaps Prof. Lynch should leave sounding rocket research anyway since Prof. Jeffery Bell, also known as The God of AeroSpace (GAS), says rockets don't reach space if they don't reach orbit: StuntShipOne: The GeeBee Of Outer Space - SpaceDaily - July.20.04. Be sure to put on your raincoat and galoshes before encountering this mudslinging screed....
The original has lots of extra links. . .

*Yeah, that's a good article. Well, if anything Bell is getting attention. Which I'm sure is his primary objective. He's entitled to his opinions of course...but I wonder how much is truly his opinion and how he states them versus simply trying to be provocative and punching peoples' buttons. He is definitely getting attention.

The odor of a stinkbomb tends to linger.

--Cindy

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-07-29 03:54:28

The dismal failure of the Shuttle RTF effort should signal the end of NASA's suicidal love affair with this fundamentally unworkable spacecraft.
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-05zq.html
The only thing we can get in return for the $25-30B now budgeted for Shuttle operations between now and 2010 is more heartache...

from the man who wrote
http://rondam.blogspot.com/2004/11/next … lures.html

who also said Hubble Repair will die

remarked that Mars missions get cut and Sample Return will always be 10 years away ( but MTO got cut not MSR )

told that NASA would bechopping down JIMO spacecraft

Jeff Bell is so vulgar :evil: he just flames and is bashing NASA all the time

John Creighton · 2005-07-30 14:34:09

Mea culpa if a previous thread offered http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-04u.html]this.

This article is so badly written by Jeffery Bell I don’t know if it even deserves comment. Talking about space suits and treadmills being vital components strikes me as odd and the conclusion he was going to reach was far too predictable. Although, I seldom agree with Jeffery bell I have come to expect more from him this article. He discredits himself so to much with clearly inaccurate statements at the beginning of the article I am wondering if anyone can possible believe what he says by the end of the article. Also any truth within the article is far to obvious for anyway that takes an interest in space to be worthy of any insite.

John Creighton · 2005-07-30 14:47:22

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-04v.html]Bell blasts sub-orbital tourism.

There really needs to be some fact checkers at space daily. I dislike the fact that Jeffery Bell is allowed to publish factually inaccurate information. I don’t mind him publishing onions against things but he should try to keep them somewhat factually true. Yet in his article he completely denies the existence of private parabolic flights.

edit: If private parabolic flights don't exist yet how does he know the price of them so well?

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-09-30 10:15:49

Urgency Of Vision For Space
by John K. Strickland
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-05zz.html

From the man who wrote - Next Five Big NASA Failures
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-05zy.html

but maybe he does have some good points to make ?

Grypd · 2006-08-12 16:31:48

Its a bit of thread necromancy but it is appropiate.

Scrap the stick now

Jeff Bell is certainly a critic and his hatred of all manned exploration is renown especially on this forum.

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#1 2004-07-19 21:33:25

Re: Dr. Jeff Bell - Strikes again

#2 2004-07-19 21:47:46

Re: Dr. Jeff Bell - Strikes again

#3 2004-07-19 22:23:50

Re: Dr. Jeff Bell - Strikes again

#4 2004-07-19 22:52:50

Re: Dr. Jeff Bell - Strikes again

#5 2004-07-20 04:57:01

Re: Dr. Jeff Bell - Strikes again

#6 2004-07-20 20:05:51

Re: Dr. Jeff Bell - Strikes again

#7 2004-07-20 20:18:04

Re: Dr. Jeff Bell - Strikes again

#8 2004-07-20 21:01:59

Re: Dr. Jeff Bell - Strikes again

#9 2004-07-21 05:38:16

Re: Dr. Jeff Bell - Strikes again

#10 2005-07-29 03:54:28

Re: Dr. Jeff Bell - Strikes again

#11 2005-07-30 14:34:09

Re: Dr. Jeff Bell - Strikes again

#12 2005-07-30 14:47:22

Re: Dr. Jeff Bell - Strikes again

#13 2005-09-30 10:15:49

Re: Dr. Jeff Bell - Strikes again

#14 2006-08-12 16:31:48

Re: Dr. Jeff Bell - Strikes again

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