Fate and happiness

Palomar · 2005-04-30 10:44:00

*I'm beginning to believe more in the concept of fate. That's a bit "off" from the preferred American concept of "you are the master of your own destiny" -- which I still believe in to an extent...but not as much as I formerly did. Yeah, it's antithetical to the general American way of thinking that you can be at the mercy, so to speak, of unforeseen occurrences or on the receiving end of unintended consequences (even if the consequences originated from an action or actions NOT put into motion by you)...but it (fate) seems a more realistic concept.

I also think we Americans have a rather silly view of "happiness." As if it's our birthright, is somehow magically owed to/guaranteed to us (because of the words "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in the Constitution). Happiness is desirable of course. But it's not abundant in life, in my experience...and based on others' lives I've seen throughout the years. I type dozens of medical reports a day, which often includes mentions of peoples' emotional states. Lots of folks feeling they "aren't happy enough." I have to respect their feelings, but the question arises...what is "happy enough"? And is there ever enough? What is this elusive chimerical THING everyone's chasing after? Is this pursuit making people *miserable* in the process? Is this elusive quality what makes people seek out various medications or other ways of alleviating "depression" -?

Maybe they aren't really depressed at all -- maybe just unrealistic. The standards of happiness are often ludicrously high, IMO. Some people have good fortunate and fate -- they might be happier. Other people might be ill-fated or have bad luck -- unhappy. I doubt much of happiness is "created." The conditions around it can be so greatly varied.

I see in the news there's been two bombings in Cairo today. People in other parts of the world are used to this sort of thing -- daily occurrences. We Americans get a bomb *threat* and everyone's flipping out.

Some cherished American ideals are overrated and unrealistic. Real life clashes and then people get "depressed." Small wonder we've turned into a pill-popping, prescription-writing nation. Can't live up to the Ideal? Take a pill.

Maybe more folks should read Edgar Allan Poe.

--

Fledi · 2005-04-30 15:49:09

It look like the "pursuit of happiness" has become some kind of general doctrine for most of modern civilization. It is not a bad priciple in itself, it just has become disconnected from doing good deeds. The problem is, this egoistic kind of reaching for happiness at the cost of others doesn't lead to long lasting happiness, only to more and more misery. But I guess it's still too early for most people to realize this.

MarsDog · 2005-04-30 16:05:14

Sugarcoat the will to live, transforming it into the concept of happiness,
hence the need for more dentists.

BWhite · 2005-04-30 16:12:21

Victor Frankl has written that we often cannot control what happens to us but we can always control our attitude towards what happens to us, our "stance" towards life.

As a concentration camp prisoner, Frankl would sometimes counsel the guards and provide them useful pyschological assistance.

Edited By BWhite on 1114899162

Shaun Barrett · 2005-04-30 18:03:47

Gosh, what a very philosophical thread!
There was a kind of home-spun wisdom on my mother's side of the family which said, among other things, that the most miserable people in the world were those who spent the most time concerned with their own happiness. Conversely, the happiest people were those who concerned themselves with, and took pleasure in, the happiness of others.
This general attitude can be extrapolated in many directions. If it is adhered to carefully and becomes part of your personality, it eliminates much of the unhappiness in various situations and it wards off depression. For example, it was an axiom in our household that, if someone received something you imagined you'd like for yourself, rather than succumb to destructive envy, join in the happiness of the individual who received that thing - i.e. be genuinely happy for them. It takes practice and a degree of self-control (unfortunately, our base instincts are powerful) but it develops empathy and it works.
It's amazing how much happiness there is around you if you only stop looking for your happiness and enjoy happiness in general, wherever you find it.

I apologize if this sounds trite, like something out of a "Waltons" script! But all I'm doing is relaying what I was taught and vouching for the fact that it's a viable ethic. It takes considerable effort (what worthwhile thing doesn't? ) but it really works.

Trebuchet · 2005-04-30 19:47:35

(because of the words "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in the Constitution)

Those words are technically from the Declaration of Independence, and are a bastardization of "life, liberty, and PROPERTY" which, I believe, was the original formulation by Locke.

Palomar · 2005-04-30 21:57:35

Those words are technically from the Declaration of Independence,

and are a bastardization of "life, liberty, and PROPERTY" which, I believe, was the original formulation by Locke.

*(Trying to recall stuff by/about John Locke I read a couple of years ago and hoping memory holds out): Probably, though I don't remember reading it in a formulation

BWhite · 2005-05-01 10:25:21

(because of the words "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in the Constitution)
Those words are technically from the Declaration of Independence, and are a bastardization of "life, liberty, and PROPERTY" which, I believe, was the original formulation by Locke.

Some say Jefferson knew EXACTLY what he was doing. :;):

dicktice · 2005-05-01 12:25:34

Cindy: Say not so! You, a fatalist? I can't imagine you crossing the street without looking to the left and right (or right and left, in New Zealand, when fate would've taken me out if it hadn't been for a certain white-knuckled driver). Don't tell me you'd jump out on your first skydive without checking first to see if you'd mistaken the 'chute in your pack for a pillowcase full of dirty socks?

Palomar · 2005-05-01 19:21:25

Cindy: Say not so! You, a fatalist? I can't imagine you crossing the street without looking to the left and right (or right and left, in New Zealand, when fate would've taken me out if it hadn't been for a certain white-knuckled driver). Don't tell me you'd jump out on your first skydive without checking first to see if you'd mistaken the 'chute in your pack for a pillowcase full of dirty socks?

*No, dicktice, not a fatalist. But I am inclined to give more credence to the concept of fate nowadays. As I said earlier:

That's a bit "off" from the preferred American concept of "you are the master of your own destiny" -- which I still believe in to an extent...but not as much as I formerly did.

A combination of both: To an extent our lives are determined by fate, to an extent we can be "masters of our own destiny."

Or, to put it another way: Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't.

The American ideal of "master of your own destiny" is overblown and unrealistic, IMO. I've seen enough evidence to prove -- in my mind anyway -- that it's just not always so.

I think we're more at the "mercy" of fate than we care or like to admit. :-\ Unfortunately.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2005-05-02 10:50:16

*I'm beginning to believe more in the concept of fate.

Define "fate".

If you mean "chance", as in you don't have complete control of your destiny because sometimes shit just happens I agree.

If it's meant in a "pre-ordained" sort of way, as in some idea of "it's my fate to__", I must disagree.

But then as far as I'm concerned, Fate is a small cat that waits for me at the door. She might hiss at Phobos and Deimos, but she's harmless.

Palomar · 2005-05-02 11:13:22

*I'm beginning to believe more in the concept of fate.
Define "fate".
If you mean "chance", as in you don't have complete control of your destiny because sometimes shit just happens I agree.
If it's meant in a "pre-ordained" sort of way, as in some idea of "it's my fate to__", I must disagree.
But then as far as I'm concerned, Fate is a small cat that waits for me at the door. She might hiss at Phobos and Deimos, but she's harmless.

*Chance. Random and unforseeable events entirely out of one's own control. Consequences/Reactions which, in a ripple-like manner, might effect your life in an adverse manner -- even if you did not put the Cause in motion.

For instance, 20 minutes from now I'll be on my way to the grocery store. I'll obey all speed limits, traffic signals, etc. If someone is just now getting behind their wheel, drunk and/or loaded and crashes into me...that's fate.

I don't think of it as "pre-ordained." That'd suggest some sort of supernatural influence, which I reject.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2005-05-02 11:41:06

*Chance. Random and unforseeable events entirely out of one's own control. Consequences/Reactions which, in a ripple-like manner, might effect your life in an adverse manner -- even if you did not put the Cause in motion.

Ah, then absolutely I agree. Though it need not only affect one's life in an adverse manner.

Carpe diem.

dicktice · 2005-05-02 18:27:06

Ah, but ... if you had been looking right to left, instead of left to right, contrary to what you normally do crossing that intersection? Best to be aware always what you are doing and just for luck, cross your fingers. In Sweden, of course, hold your thumb. I've found that not to work in Canada, by the way.

clark · 2005-05-05 20:29:36

I always thought of "Fate" as kind of like an inescapable doom. Such as, we are all "fated" to die. We can be rich, poor, sick, healthy, happy, sad, etc., etc. But in the end, we each die.

That's 'fate' in my book. The things in your life, the things that you think matter most, that's fate too. Why?

Because those things, even the minor ones that clutter up a lifetime and slowly shape who you are, they make you who you are. And we are all fated to die as whoever we are.

Maybe it has conotations of religion, but my view isn't quoting it. Our free-will, our choice, it's deciding on those parts of us that we want ourselves to be.

Do I want to be a businessman? A criminal? A loud-mouth malcontent? A wife? A father? An astronaut? Whatever.

Fate is simply the inability to escape who we really are.

Everything else is merely coincedence and happenstance.

Mad Grad Student · 2005-05-05 21:35:42

Well, this is a fascinating topic, isn't it.

The fact of the matter is that the Universe is really big. Super big- you just really won't believe how big it truly is. As a result, each individual can only affect a miniscule fraction of the Universe, and the rest just goes about its business as usual. As a result there are of course unforseen forces that affect all of us, which I suppose could be interpreted as fate, but just as strongly we all have a sphere of influence that can directly affect our futures much more than the hand of lady luck can.

One of my favorite examples of this dichotomy is the fortunate/unfortunate result of United flight 232. On the way from Los Angeles to Chicago a component in the fan disk of the plane's number 2 engine (it was a DC-10, so this is mounted in the tail) gave up the ghost and the turbine promptly disassembled itself in a fraction of a second. Ordinarily this is rather pedestrian as far as in-flight emergencies go, a simple matter of shutting down the engine and landing at the nearest availible runway. Unfotunately for these guys, though, the debris from the engine just happened to shred through all three of the redundant hydraulic systems in the airplane. Within 14 seconds the crew had absolutely zero control over the airplane, the most disastrous worst-case scinerio of which anyone could conceive. That's one huge piece of rotten luck, to say the least.

However, this is where things get really interesting. The flight crew did get a good smack across the face by the hand of fate, but they dealt with it beautifully. By throttling the two remaining engines they were able to regain some control, enough to put the plane on the runway, at least. Unfortunately there were many onboard who didn't survive the ensuing splat (the video of the "cartwheeling" DC-10 on fire is now infamous), but two-thirds of the passengers walked away practically uninjured. We are not mere slaves to fate, there is always an opportunity to get out of any tight spot if we are quick enough to see it.

As for happiness, it seems to me that many people have an ingrained reflex against it for some odd reason. Among my co-workers (or classmates, whichever term you prefer) there is a never-ending deluge of complaints about every possible subject under the Sun. If you try to cheer them up they either start lamenting about how rude you are or inquire as to if you have recently consumed any illegal drugs. Lousy bunch of weirdos...

For some reason, fate and sadness are two elements that seem intrinsic to human nature. It's as though people don't want to accept responsibility for their lives and can't find anything to give them pleasure during their few short years in this world. Maybe they just don't know themselves well enough to find what makes them happy. Perhaps pessimism is a quality they've picked up from their peers. Whatever the reason, I'm very thankful that I don't have either of these personality traits. We all have the power to intimately affect our futures and find happiness. Or to squander these precious potential gifts. Whichever you do is your decision.

C'mon, live a little.

Shaun Barrett · 2005-05-06 01:17:42

MadGrad:-

We all have the power to intimately affect our futures and find happiness.

Someone said you don't have to find your happiness, you only have to declare it.
Apparently it's a state of mind and it's all up to you.

If Schrodinger's cat can be alive or dead just by the fact of our observing it, then it makes sense that we can surely be happy or sad just by the fact of our declaring it. It's simple quantum mechanics

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