Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

dickbill · 2002-10-27 09:32:33

Hi all,

I think that the Mars Society flag with the blue and red crescents is not great. It is too reminiscent of the islamic flag. Mars colonization is mostly and first an occidental idea. Are we afraid or ashamed of our occidental cultural heritage ? Why not to use the occidental greek symbol for MArs, or a symbolic variation of that sign to spare the ultrasensitive feminist organizations sensitivity.

Adrian · 2002-10-27 11:09:24

What red and blue crescents flag? As far as I know, there's only one 'official' Mars Society flag and that's the red, green and blue tricolore - imagine the French flag, but with red, green and blue running from left to right. Or even better, look at CNN's illustration.

Personally, I think the Mars Society tricolore is a bit dull, but it's not going to offend anyone so it's an obvious choice. I did give some thought about working on some variation of the two crescents New Mars logo for a flag, but then gave it up after a while; wasn't sure if I could get the proportions right, and I knew that people would complain about the presumed Islamic association.

Number04 · 2002-10-27 15:25:28

I agree with dickbill, I think the flag should include some type of mythology. But the CNN color scheme is nice.

Phobos · 2002-10-27 22:37:35

Maybe Dickbill was thinking of the New Mars crescents which are blue and red. And don't touch the New Mars logo, it's perfect as is even though I understand Dickbill's point that it might have some similiarities to certain flags.

Byron · 2002-10-28 07:21:20

Who came up with the New Mars logo, anyhow? I've loved it since the first time I visited this board...you have the three 'colors of Mars'...and the proportional sizes of the earth (blue cresent) and Mars (red cresent) is the coolest thing of all in that logo. I've never had any occassion to make the connection of this logo with the Islamic flag until duckbill happened to mention it...

As for the 'official' flag of Mars...I vote with the existing red, green, blue tri-color...it's clean, simple, noncontroversial...what more can you ask of a flag? Good ideas are sometimes best left alone.

B

Adrian · 2002-10-28 11:50:27

I came up with the New Mars logo - glad you like it! I thought it was appropriate to have red, green and blue as colours, and the double crescents seemed quite elegant.

dickbill · 2002-10-28 13:18:28

Yes, I confused the tricolor flag with the New Mars logo, just on top of this web page.
Now, I found the Mars society logo great, I like it. But the tricolor flag...hum...it is not a great invention. Why do we have to like it ? why do we have to copy that particular type of flags ?
If that flag is supposed to represent Mars, then the Japanese flags fits better than a tricolor flag. Who choosed the flag BTW ?

Number04 · 2002-10-28 13:33:41

People that are infinitely smarter then us.

Adrian · 2002-10-28 15:26:56

As far as I know, it was the Mars Society Powers That Be who invented the flag (read as: the Zubrins). And probably some other people on the Board of Directors and Steering Committee.

Palomar · 2002-10-28 16:16:29

As for the 'official' flag of Mars...I vote with the existing red, green, blue tri-color...it's clean, simple, noncontroversial...
B

*Hmmmm, I don't know about that, Byron. If red, green, and blue for the colors of the Marsian flag is an echo of KSR's novels, persons opposed to terraforming won't like it. ???

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2002-10-28 16:51:23

Great New Mars logo, Adrian! I've always liked it too.

One question, though. It may be an optical illusion, but is the diameter of the red crescent a tad on the small side compared to the diameter of the blue crescent? Or are they actually scaled correctly in accordance with the ratio of the diameters of Earth and Mars?

Very small point, I know, and, in the great scheme of things, of little or no significance to anybody! But I was just curious, that's all.

Adrian · 2002-10-28 17:07:37

The diameter of Mars is a bit larger than half of Earth's. I just checked the raw vector image that I made for the logo and the sizes are about right - they're not perfect (Mars is a few percent smaller than it should be) but they're not bad.

Byron · 2002-10-28 18:09:30

I have this poster on the wall that has an image of Mars superimposed on Earth, and it really does look a lot smaller than you might think...as a general rule of thumb, Earth is twice the diameter of Mars, and Mars is twice the diameter of the Moon...

Cindy...you do have a point about the Martian flag, but at least it doesn't have any *earthly* connotation, which is really what I was referring to when I said it was 'noncontroversial.' I suppose no matter what flag, if any, is ever adopted as the "official flag" of Mars, it will generate at least some controversy. We'll just have to go with the what the 'majority' thinks is best, I guess...

However, another idea for a Martian flag I think might work is a plain black background with an image of Mars (the side that has Tharsis and Marineris) occupying the middle, similar to the rising sun on the Japanese flag...but like everything else, I'm sure there would be controversy about that too...lol.

B

Phobos · 2002-10-28 18:39:46

*Hmmmm, I don't know about that, Byron. If red, green, and blue for the colors of the Marsian flag is an echo of KSR's novels, persons opposed to terraforming won't like it.
--Cindy

At least it's not a swastika. *waits to receive 50 page history of the swastika by Clark*

dickbill · 2002-10-28 18:48:44

Allright, the New nars forum's logo is fine since it is just a forum logo and I am not the owner of that forum after all. But for the flag, i too understand it as a sign of terraforming and/or of "The" trilogy , but I just find it not very aesthetic and not very imaginative. In addition, rectangular flags like that are very reminiscent of army and nationalisms.
But if those 3 colors have to be kept, which I understand because they symbolise terraforming, why not to use them combined or INSIDE a more symbolistic logo such as the greek Martian symbol. Do not underestimate the evocative power of symbols. I think that the current Mars Society flag lacks that evocative power.
Let's face it, if you see a greek (or roman) martian symbol right now in the street, you might think it's to indicate a gay organization or people or that it is for men symbol and not women. I guess it's the main reason why it has not been choosed. I think it's a mistake to abandon that sign because of those reasons, because the ideologic content is lost and that this sign has just to be adapted.

Palomar · 2002-10-28 22:47:21

*Okay, so maybe we can have a flag designing contest. Perhaps it's been suggested before, somewhere at these message boards...

--Cindy

Byron · 2002-10-29 06:46:29

Let's face it, if you see a greek (or roman) martian symbol right now in the street, you might think it's to indicate a gay organization or people or that it is for men symbol and not women. I guess it's the main reason why it has not been choosed. I think it's a mistake to abandon that sign because of those reasons, because the ideologic content is lost and that this sign has just to be adapted.

This sign just has to just be adapted, huh? I think we could do just fine with any number of other designs...and perhaps we could come up with a symbol that doesn't have earthly 'baggage' with it....

B

dickbill · 2002-10-30 18:34:30

The Mars Logo, with the astronaut in front of a green house/biosphere, actually contains that Mars greek symbol, although not obvious at first sight. I lilke more that logo even if it is a little bit too "cartoon". This as opposed to the Mars tricolor rectangular flag which is too reminiscent of nationalism in my opinion and really too "boring".
But a sign without any Eart reference ? Why should we get rid off everything from Earth ? not everything is negative here on Earth. Just think about the great genius that the occidental civilization has produced. We should not erase or forget that positive past. We are not smarter than the Newton, Descartes, Euler, Poincare, Nietzsche, Darwin, Lamarck, Galileo, Copernic, Einstein, Planck, Feinman....the list is so long. In many biographies, you can read the amazed author sincerely asking "but from where the hell did he got that surhuman/quasi-divin idea" like if their ideas were more intuition or divination than genius. They remind us that there is more in man than just man. Each time those great minds enlighted us a little bit more, each time they help us to move away from the bestiality of our origin and to get closer where we want to go now: on Mars. Please, do not erase that great heritage. It is the best of humanity. We should not fall into that obscurantist idea of a "pure virginal start from scrap without any Earth baggage" .

Phobos · 2002-10-30 20:20:05

We seem to think that Mars will only have one flag. I'm not convinced yet that Mars will necessarily be a single nation. But in any case flags are usually very abstract things with symbology that reflects some aspect that a culture finds important. I.E. the fifty stars on the US Flag stands for unity of the states, the sickle and hammer on the USSR flag represents the idea that the nation belongs to the workers. I imagine the Martians will continue the tradition and design their flags using symbology that reflects values they find important whether it involves Earth or not. To us we think they should find Earth important because we gave rise to their civilization, but they could find that concept arrogant and instead honor the unique contributions they themselves made to their civilization when it comes to designing the flag.

Palomar · 2002-10-30 22:21:04

*Okay, I have the answer: A flag with a photo of Johnny Depp on it, circa 2001.

That's the Marsian flag. Reddish gold background with a tan circle in the middle upon which is superimposed a glossy 8 x 10 studio shot of Johnny Depp...with long, dark tousled hair, leaning sideways from the upper torso and resting his head against an outstretched palm, pouting slightly while soulfully and sensually gazing into the camera's lens...

Yep, that's it. Like it, lump it -- but that's my vote folks.

Johnny Depp is the Marsian flag!

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2002-10-31 00:54:20

Do I detect yet another weakness, Cindy?!

Palomar · 2002-10-31 14:18:11

Do I detect yet another weakness, Cindy?!

*Me?! Heck, no. I am Lieutenant Commander of the Jedi Order of Voltaire; thus, I have no weaknesses!

You know, I did just now have an image come to mind for the first Marsian flag. Someone previously mentioned the Japanese flag, so that was definitely an inspiration [giving credit where credit is due]. How about this:

Black background. Orange-reddish disc, centered. Tiny blue-green disc in the upper left-hand corner.

Or this [a variation that just came to mind]:

Black background. Blue-green disc, centered; superimposed on that, a smaller orange-reddish disc. The discs are scaled to reflect Earth and Mars size differences.

I think it's good.

--Cindy

Byron · 2002-10-31 15:08:00

Black background. Blue-green disc, centered; superimposed on that, a smaller orange-reddish disc. The discs are scaled to reflect Earth and Mars size differences.
I think it's good.
--Cindy

You mean like I have in my avatar??

B

Palomar · 2002-10-31 15:27:59

Black background. Blue-green disc, centered; superimposed on that, a smaller orange-reddish disc. The discs are scaled to reflect Earth and Mars size differences.
I think it's good.
--Cindy
You mean like I have in my avatar??
B

*[Jaw drops] Oh geez! Yes! It's interesting how the subconscious mind works!

Yes, Byron, your avatar was ::obviously:: an inspiration as well, though I honestly did not consciously think of it while typing my last post; in fact, I hadn't consciously thought of it all day [as this is the first post of yours I've read today, Byron].

Well...giving credit to Byron's avatar!

And admitting I'm apparently not as clever as I would like to think I am [thank you, my subconscious mind!] ???

--Cindy

Byron · 2002-11-01 08:43:20

And admitting I'm apparently not as clever as I would like to think I am [thank you, my subconscious mind!] ???
--Cindy

Don't feel bad Cindy...this sort of thing happens to everyone, myself included...

Glad to see that you think the design of my avatar is worthy of a flag, though...LOL...

B

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#1 2002-10-27 09:32:33

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#2 2002-10-27 11:09:24

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#3 2002-10-27 15:25:28

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#4 2002-10-27 22:37:35

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#5 2002-10-28 07:21:20

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#6 2002-10-28 11:50:27

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#7 2002-10-28 13:18:28

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#8 2002-10-28 13:33:41

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#9 2002-10-28 15:26:56

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#10 2002-10-28 16:16:29

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#11 2002-10-28 16:51:23

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#12 2002-10-28 17:07:37

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#13 2002-10-28 18:09:30

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#14 2002-10-28 18:39:46

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#15 2002-10-28 18:48:44

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#16 2002-10-28 22:47:21

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#17 2002-10-29 06:46:29

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#18 2002-10-30 18:34:30

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#19 2002-10-30 20:20:05

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#20 2002-10-30 22:21:04

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#21 2002-10-31 00:54:20

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#22 2002-10-31 14:18:11

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#23 2002-10-31 15:08:00

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#24 2002-10-31 15:27:59

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

#25 2002-11-01 08:43:20

Re: Mars Society red and blue crescents flag - ridiculous flag

Board footer