Rabid Anti-Americanism?

Palomar · 2005-04-20 09:16:05

*I can't pass this up. The article quoted below was posted just this morning at space.com.

****The actual mission itself is being followed in http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3432]THIS THREAD. Hopefully we can keep the topic matter separate.****

I don't consider myself a paranoid person. However, this does strike me as anti-Americanism. Was Huygens (ESA) considered "an act of vandalism," i.e. setting upon the pristine surface of Titan?

April 20
Russian Astrologist Sues NASA
NASA has been taken to court in Russia over its plans to crack open a comet.
Marina Bai, a Russian astrologist, filed a lawsuit last month with the Presnensky district court in Moscow, demanding that the U.S. space agency call off its $311 million Deep Impact mission. As reported in MosNews.com, Bai is also asking for 8.7 billion rubles ($311 million) in compensation for moral damages.
“The actions of NASA infringe upon my system of spiritual and life values, in particular on the values of every element of creation, upon the unacceptability of barbarically interfering with the natural life of the universe, and the violation of the natural balance of the Universe,” Bai said in her claim.
Deep Impact, which is already in space, is scheduled to collide with Comet 9P/Tempel 1 on July 4th of this year. The spacecraft carries explosives, which will be used to dig out a crater in the comet. Scientists will then hope to learn what a typical comet is made of.
The district court dismissed the Bai’s case, but the Moscow City Court took up the appeal and will rule following a hearing scheduled for May 6.
Benny Peiser, a researcher at Liverpool John Moores University who follows asteroid science and the surrounding media and public attention, said even some Russian scientists have jumped on this court case, calling the space mission an act of "vandalism that cannot be justified."
"I can only hope that this irrational technophobia is not a sign of things to come in other parts of Europe, which is already falling worryingly behind internationally in science and technology, never mind space exploration," Peiser told SPACE.com.

IMO, this is only because it's NASA/USA. Anti-Americanism run amok.

--Cindy

srmeaney · 2005-04-20 10:01:18

Is his point of view any less valid than a room full of christians pushing creationism over real Science. Or do you despise him because he's Russian?

BWhite · 2005-04-20 10:08:02

Bah! Why does everything have to be about US?

Guys buy big stereo speakers, and oversized power boats to compensate for a perceived inadequacy, well, elsewhere.

Americans wrap themselves in the flag, and exaggerate perceived international slights for similar reasons.

SpaceNut · 2005-04-20 10:16:33

In the world of sue, sue, sue, it is only a matter of time before ones action result in them being sued. Usually this is all in an attempt to gain monetarily or to cause pain monetarily to those involved between those being sued and the sue'e.

Cobra Commander · 2005-04-20 10:18:55

My impression is that this is one part anti-Americanism and two parts stupid.

Shaken, not stirred.

A Russian able to sue an American agency over "spiritual" concerns, how far they've come. :laugh:

Palomar · 2005-04-20 10:20:32

srmeaney: Or do you despise him because he's Russian?

*It's not a he, it's a she. And no, being Russian has nothing to do with it. I have nothing against the Russian people, never have.

Bill: Americans wrap themselves in the flag, and exaggerate perceived international slights for similar reasons.

You're not being fair, Bill. I've 20 times accepted and admitted American blame and failure for every 1 time I've pointed out what I believe is an act of pure anti-Americanism.

Why didn't this same scientist -- Ms. Bai -- go after ESA for landing a probe on a previously untouched moon?

Unfair is unfair, and I'm not afraid to call 'em as I see 'em.

--Cindy

P.S.:

This is ultimately another extension of protest of the war in Iraq. A silly extension of protest, IMO.

It's fashionable to bash the U.S. and dingbats like Ms. Bai and her colleagues are on the bandwagon. Have you ever heard of such a law suit being brought against NASA before? I haven't.

srmeaney · 2005-04-20 10:23:12

Say they cracked the comet open and found the Son of God in Cryo storage on route to earth. Would the minority beliefs of this "Crazy" still be under question?

Cobra Commander · 2005-04-20 10:33:00

Say they cracked the comet open and found the Son of God in Cryo storage on route to earth. Would the minority beliefs of this "Crazy" still be under question?

???

Okay. <puts on "absurd hypothetical" hat> So this cryogenically stored body, presumably human, is found inside a comet. Okay, weird. But where'd the "son of God" stuff come in? Did the frozen body say so? Did you card him?

"Hey, it's me, frozen comet man. My dad, God, is really P-O'd at you guys for making fun of this Russki woman. Stop it or I'll make Errosist's predictions come true. Or rather my dad will, being that he's God." :laugh:

GCNRevenger · 2005-04-20 10:46:16

"asking for 8.7 billion rubles ($311 million) in compensation for moral damages.

"The actions of NASA infringe upon my system of spiritual and life values, in particular on the values of every element of creation, upon the unacceptability of barbarically interfering with the natural life of the universe, and the violation of the natural balance of the Universe""

LOL
Pathetic! Moonbattery at its finest.

Sometimes Bill, sometimes... but not this time. If that were a Russian impactor instead of an American one, do you think that Russian aerospace engineers would be siding with crazy hug-a-comet lady? Russian engineers hate NASA, no secret about that.

GCNRevenger · 2005-04-20 10:50:04

Say they cracked the comet open and found the Son of God in Cryo storage on route to earth. Would the minority beliefs of this "Crazy" still be under question?

Okay, first it was your hate-filled slander against Christianity, but now you are siding with this insane UFO Russian nut job?

Oh no! We better not land on Mars! The weight from our lander might crush the underground Martian angels!

Palomar · 2005-04-20 10:52:49

I guess my reply post didn't go through. Here it is (if this winds up a repeat post, sorry...not intentional):

*It's unforgiveable, IMO, that scientists are behaving in this manner. Spirituality before science? Go join a frickin' nunnery or monastery.

They're inserting politics into science. If you don't like American policies, are opposed to the war in Iraq and etc., fine. Be opposed, protest, etc. Carry a banner in the street, scream your head off on a corner, write letters...But DON'T use a science mission such as DI as a "whipping boy" of sorts, to project anger and loathing onto.

This is as stupid as trashing tricycles because you don't like SUV's and Hummers.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2005-04-20 10:55:48

I guess my reply post didn't go through. Here it is (if this winds up a repeat post, sorry...not intentional):

Testing. If this doesn't show up, we may have a crash here.

Okay, fixed it.

Edited By Cobra Commander on 1114016171

srmeaney · 2005-04-20 11:05:47

Okay, first it was your hate-filled slander against Christianity, but now you are siding with this insane UFO Russian nut job?
Oh no! We better not land on Mars! The weight from our lander might crush the underground Martian angels!

If the next Pope decides that Space is off limits to NASA and a devotely religious President orders the dismantling of NASA for Spiritual reasons is it any different to one lone religious crackpot stopping the breaking of a comet?

BWhite · 2005-04-20 11:08:18

When I was in first year law school we had a HUGE class-wide argument over a friviolous lawsuit that was actually filed in the circuit court of Cook County.

Some Chicago Bears season ticket holders (all lawyers) got together and filed a consumer fraud complaint saying that it was false advertising for the Chicago Bears to hold themselves out as a "professional" football team. It was the "Bears suck" lawsuit.

Some of us first year students thought the lawsuit was baseless and frivolous and should be dismissed but still was pretty darn FUNNY!

Others were outraged and thought the lawyers should be formally disciplined. HUGE argument lasted for weeks.

= = =

Is this Russian lawsuit patently ridiculous. Well d'oh!

I'd say 95% stupid/silly and 5% vaguely anti-American.

But if we are to survive as the most powerful nation on the planet, we need to learn to take a joke at our expense.

Cobra Commander · 2005-04-20 11:14:08

If the next Pope decides that Space is off limits to NASA and a devotely religious President orders the dismantling of NASA for Spiritual reasons is it any different to one lone religious crackpot stopping the breaking of a comet?

Well, assuming that we had a President who was not only Catholic (I can think of one) and devout enough to listen to the Pope on matters of governing his own nation, and Congress went along with it, then yes it would be different. The elected representatives of the people would have sanctioned it.

That would be tragic, "one lone religious crackpot" trying save a comet is more funny than anything else.

But <still wearing "absurd hypothetical" hat> the Pope would have to find some theological basis for making that call, he can't just make stuff up out of thin air and have people fall in line behind him just because he wears the Pope-hat.

The Commonwealth is the tool of Satan and collaborating with its twisted aims will condemn your soul to eternal damnation. Here's your wine and bread, bottoms up.

Palomar · 2005-04-20 11:17:18

I'd say 95% stupid/silly and 5% vaguely anti-American.
But if we are to survive as the most powerful nation on the planet, we need to learn to take a joke at our expense.

*We've taken plenty of "jokes" at our expense lately, IMO.

There's a limit to it.

Did we bring some of it onto ourselves? Yep. YES.

But does that automatically give others "a pass" to keep on and on (and on and on and on) taking jabs at us?

Not in my books.

When scientists pull stunts like this -- in public, for all the world to see -- then it's gone beyond the point.

Part of loving something is not only admitting fault, but also protecting it.

I certainly don't believe NASA deserves this spit in the eye.

The very fact that these scientists are putting "spirituality" before science is an another indicator. They're QUACKS.

--Cindy

BWhite · 2005-04-20 11:22:53

Sometimes Bill, sometimes... but not this time. If that were a Russian impactor instead of an American one, do you think that Russian aerospace engineers would be siding with crazy hug-a-comet lady? Russian engineers hate NASA, no secret about that.

Hate us? Nah.

Its psy-ops via mockery. And we get psyched out pretty easily.

Didn't Kruschev take 12 new bombers (thats all they had) and have them fly repeated loops duirng a Moscow air show? I recall reading that the CIA told Eisenhower the Soviets had HUNDREDS of a new advanced bomber - - the fabled bomber gap.

We got played.

They know that the new age moonbats in America will buy into this "spirits in the comet" nonsense. And they are playing it.

= = =

Edit: We get all riled up about it and they win. Laugh it off and we win.

Edited By BWhite on 1114017872

srmeaney · 2005-04-20 11:25:55

It probably hasn't gotten out too much but the New Pope strongly supports the rechristianisation of Europe and an end to multiculturalism. His policy is based on the Idea that all christianity extends from the same doctrine. Anyone who isn't christian is a Heretic.

GCNRevenger · 2005-04-20 11:35:52

"I'd say 95% stupid/silly and 5% vaguely anti-American."

*Coughs* I think that is kinda anti-American in itself...

Nah, the Russian aerospace institutions hate NASA... first stabbing us in the back over ISS parts (getting NASA to cough up perhaps as much as $600M), gloating over Shuttle (kept operating in part because of Bruan), and basically doing what they can to keep NASA down or stuck and embarressed.

What in the heck does the supposed Bomber Gap have to do with this? ...The CIA got suckerd because the Communists were smart and moved their bombers around to different bases for our spy planes/satelites to see, not because of any "air show" nonsense We aren't dumb, thats stupid leftist folk-lore.

Palomar · 2005-04-20 11:54:47

Laugh it off and we win.

*Not necessarily.

Silence gives assent.

Sometimes you've got to speak up, otherwise people might (likely will) misconstrue it as apathy or agreement.

It is -- at the very least -- *unbecoming* of scientists to behave like this. And that, I think, troubles me the most. It's the principle of the matter.

They don't deserve to be called scientists.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-04-20 12:08:53

*And no one has to put up with constant antagonism.

Like I said, enough's enough.

--Cindy

BWhite · 2005-04-20 13:15:07

"I'd say 95% stupid/silly and 5% vaguely anti-American."
*Coughs* I think that is kinda anti-American in itself...
Nah, the Russian aerospace institutions hate NASA... first stabbing us in the back over ISS parts (getting NASA to cough up perhaps as much as $600M), gloating over Shuttle (kept operating in part because of Bruan), and basically doing what they can to keep NASA down or stuck and embarressed.
What in the heck does the supposed Bomber Gap have to do with this? ...The CIA got suckerd because the Communists were smart and moved their bombers around to different bases for our spy planes/satelites to see, not because of any "air show" nonsense We aren't dumb, thats stupid leftist folk-lore.

If the Russian areospace industry "hates" us its because we have a concerted and very deliberate policy of starving them of cash.

It may (or may not) be good policy for us, but its still a legitimate reason for their hostility. And if they can pay us back by trolling the "New Age" elements in our society, shame on them for trying and shame on us for falling for it.

That lawsuit? Its a troll!

Don't feed the trolls!

When we "get our knickers in a knot" over somethign stupid like an astrologer filing a lawsuit (total BS by the way) and start whining about "anti-Americanism" it reveals our own underlying insecurty - - just like the insecure man who buys a giant cigarette boat.

= = =

By the way, which "scientists" support the astrologer? As I recall, some Russians can be surprisingly (and genuinely) superstitious.

Edited By BWhite on 1114024580

Cobra Commander · 2005-04-20 13:31:41

Certainly an big show of outrage is grossly over-reacting, and in that Bill has a point.

In a metaphorical sense collectively glancing over, muttering "stupid", then proceeding to bust open a comet would be the most sensible approach.

BWhite · 2005-04-20 13:43:30

Certainly an big show of outrage is grossly over-reacting, and in that Bill has a point.
In a metaphorical sense collectively glancing over, muttering "stupid", then proceeding to bust open a comet would be the most sensible approach.

Yup. That is pretty much my whole point. :up:

Palomar · 2005-04-20 13:49:57

start whining about "anti-Americanism" it reveals our own underlying insecurty - - just like the insecure man who buys a giant cigarette boat.

*Not insecure, just sick and tired of it.

There's a difference.

Give me a break, Bill. It's not like I'm posting similar stuff day in/day out, nor screaming "anti-Americanism!" every other day.

No apologies here.

By the way, which "scientists" support...As I recall, some Russians can be surprisingly (and genuinely) superstitious.

Don't know, the article was brief (I quoted it entirely) and other names weren't mentioned.

--Cindy

P.S.: And as for whining...yeah, I'm tired of it too. THEIRS.

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