Greece Joins ESA

Palomar · 2005-03-23 13:46:02

http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish … 32005]This just in from universetoday.com

*Is ESA's 16th nation to join. Greece's Hellenic National Space Committee (that's an interesting name...) has been interacting with ESA since the early 1990s. In September 2003 they formally applied to become an ESA member. Negotiations throughout summer '04.

Greece already participates in ESA’s telecommunication and technology activities, and the Global Monitoring for Environment and Security Initiative

--Cindy

Gennaro · 2005-03-23 14:09:13

Nice, although it's mostly just a formal procedure.

SpaceNut · 2005-03-23 14:14:54

How much are they going to contribute to the cause monetarily or though science?

Gennaro · 2005-03-23 15:01:49

Whatever it is, we'll just have to make sure it won't be a minus. And I don't believe it will.

*Low pitched mumbling*: Now, if we just could get the into some bilateral partnership with the Russians, we could help funding a recommittment to that monster Vulcan rocket they were working on in the 70's... and we could setup a Euro-Russian Mars Direct program, hmm...

http://k26.com/buran/Info/Hercules/vulk … ulkan.html

DonPanic · 2005-03-23 16:49:29

LO

How much are they going to contibute to the cause monetarily or though science?

In term of money, as Greece is among the main states which gets the most help from European Union per capita, the contribution is rather symbolic, in fact, a return of part of EU help to ESA.
In matter of science, some more hundreds technicians and physicists added.

Palomar · 2005-04-08 09:20:46

*Won't create a new thread for this question:

Why won't/hasn't Russia joined the ESA?

Maybe I've come across indications (in the past) as to why not, but can't recall.

Probably some of it is due to pride (justifably so) over past accomplishments? The desire to remain autonomous?

Really, I'd like to know. If Russia were to join, maybe THAT would put a fire under NASA's rump and get *real* progress started again.

--Cindy

DonPanic · 2005-04-11 02:25:36

LO

Why won't/hasn't Russia joined the ESA?

Because Russia wants to deal with ESA as an equal, matter of national pride, as you suggest.
Russian space industry needs money, half the Soyuz production is bought by ESA, to be launched from Kourou.
Nasa isn't much moved by Euro-China-India-Russia space cooperation, all added is a small percentage of US space industry and the main of that quatuor, ESA, cooperates with Nasa in many space science programs.

srmeaney · 2005-04-11 04:06:03

A lot of the problem is EU's rejection of Russia joining Europe as a member-state.

It is good that Greece is Joining the ESA program. With further increases in the Collective Funding that ESA offers, they may be able to pay for Hermes, Although They need a better Lab module. The existing one is far too small. Perhaps an inflatable Hab module along the lines of the Transhab.

DonPanic · 2005-04-11 06:01:59

LO

A lot of the problem is EU's rejection of Russia joining Europe as a member-state.

I bet Russia will join Europe before Turkey... if European public opinion rejection of Islam increases.
Hermes is buried, as a technologically obsolete concept.

Grypd · 2005-04-11 07:46:08

There seems to be anti EU bias in Russia at the moment and this also applies to the "client states" that are in the way. Russia did not like the Baltic states joining europe as this area was to Russia their fief. Russia looks at the expanding EU and sees only a potentially powerful problem.

One of the biggest issues that where in the Ukraines problematic election was that the progressive party that eventually won wants to join the EU. The fact that the other side resorted to vote rigging and the actual poisoning of the opposing leader with Dioxin shows the tensions that where there.

It did not help that Putin and Russia actually hailed the original elections and Yanukovich as victors even with the vote rigging shown. It was suggested should the Ukraine actually have gone to civil war over the result (which had been a real possibility) that Russia would have provided military support.

Anyway it makes sense for Russia to be involved with ESA it gets money for rockets and benefits from what ESA is doing. ESA of course gets a rocket system that can reasonably easily be upgraded to the Manned version and it benefits from the Russian experience and technology. But do they trust each other ???

srmeaney · 2005-04-11 10:03:56

Trust is built through Working together. As long as they form a single technology-science production house that is open to the examination of all ideas and the development of the best, a EURO-RUSSIAN space program will outshine all others.

HERMES is not dead. It is an unexploited legacy that must be moved forward until they can create what can truely be described as a Space plane. HOTOL was just a shuttle, HERMES is the direction they needed to look in, even if they got it wrong.

They just didn't know what they needed.

Grypd · 2005-04-11 10:37:28

HERMES is not dead. It is an unexploited legacy that must be moved forward until they can create what can truely be described as a Space plane. HOTOL was just a shuttle, HERMES is the direction they needed to look in, even if they got it wrong.
They just didn't know what they needed.

Hotol was just a shuttle, actually Hotol was a single stage to orbit spaceplane which used advanced sabre engines. It was far too far in advance of anything we could do but it is the direction we will go in. We will not be able to go straight to a single stage but we will use two or more completely reuasable ascent stages and with this we will be able to get people to space a lot cheaper than we can now.

Still until there is a need for such a craft we will go with the capsule approach and that is what Hermes was a capsule type shuttle that just had the capability of being completely reused. But the Russian capsules we currently have actually have a good degree of reuseability in them.

Still I cannot see an alliance between Russia and ESA lasting unless they are in direct competition with another country or feel that to be able to compete they must stay close. The only country that could be would be the USA, China and India and Japan though doing great progress are still off the Horizon. But maybe not forever.

DonPanic · 2005-04-11 12:48:24

LO

Russia looks at the expanding EU and sees only a potentially powerful problem.
One of the biggest issues that where in the Ukraines problematic election was that the progressive party that eventually won wants to join the EU. The fact that the other side resorted to vote rigging and the actual poisoning of the opposing leader with Dioxin shows the tensions that where there.
It did not help that Putin and Russia actually hailed the original elections and Yanukovich as victors even with the vote rigging shown. It was suggested should the Ukraine actually have gone to civil war over the result (which had been a real possibility) that Russia would have provided military support.
Anyway it makes sense for Russia to be involved with ESA it gets money for rockets and benefits from what ESA is doing. ESA of course gets a rocket system that can reasonably easily be upgraded to the Manned version and it benefits from the Russian experience and technology. But do they trust each other ???

The US manoeuvres in the former USSR republics surrounding Afghanistan push Russia towards Europe.
The russian trust in America is at lowest, because of the US desire to miltarise space, and to get a antimissile shield, not seen as an antiterrorist policy. ???
Today, a contract between ESA and Russia has been signed.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-04-20 14:49:53

Greeks still have influence, a source of many styles of play and story telling, many Western folklore stories, birthplace of the ancient Olympic Games, officially the Hellenic Republic on the southern tip of the Balkan peninsula, 10 million people and $430 billion economy, it has huge Solar-Power generation potential with good sunny weather in Greece, they have influence on world shipping since ancient times and still have influence on the world's total merchant fleet, Tourism in Greece a major source of income.

despite having significant contribution to Western culture an agency and nation which has not made many feats in space?

now a place for illegal invaders, a major entry point for illegal immigrants trying to enter the EU

maybe a lot of us know some of their history, here is a site with maybe an education recap for young people

'Why were the Greeks significant?'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/zxytpv4

in news today

A Greek Orthodox monk says King Charles III has turned to him for spiritual advice since his cancer diagnosis
https://www.aol.co.uk/news/greek-monk-s … 59743.html

Poland, Greece discuss use of frozen Russian assets to aid Ukraine
https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/9766/Ar … id-ukraine
Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk met with his Greek counterpart Kyriakos Mitsotakis

Now replaced by the Hellenic Space Center the Hellenic Space Agency was founded 2018, Greece has a much smaller economic budget other big European players influence the ESA Major nation contributors include Germany, France and Italy?

ISARS was founded in 1955, under the name Ionospheric Institute an older group the Institute for Astronomy, Astrophysics, Space Applications, and Remote Sensing a non-profit research institute in Greece with expertise in multidisciplinary astrophysical, space and environmental science
https://web.archive.org/web/20120402052 … pns220.php

Greece Creates Space Agency in Bid for Economic and Strategic Benefits
https://spacewatch.global/2018/03/greec … -benefits/

quote

'The establishment and operation of the Hellenic Space Organisation will be one of the most dynamic features of our course towards the modern digital economy of the future'

Helmos Observatory, National Observatory of Athens - Aristarchos Telescope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsQtdqiDAgE

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-04-21 01:37:40)

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#1 2005-03-23 13:46:02

Re: Greece Joins ESA

#2 2005-03-23 14:09:13

Re: Greece Joins ESA

#3 2005-03-23 14:14:54

Re: Greece Joins ESA

#4 2005-03-23 15:01:49

Re: Greece Joins ESA

#5 2005-03-23 16:49:29

Re: Greece Joins ESA

#6 2005-04-08 09:20:46

Re: Greece Joins ESA

#7 2005-04-11 02:25:36

Re: Greece Joins ESA

#8 2005-04-11 04:06:03

Re: Greece Joins ESA

#9 2005-04-11 06:01:59

Re: Greece Joins ESA

#10 2005-04-11 07:46:08

Re: Greece Joins ESA

#11 2005-04-11 10:03:56

Re: Greece Joins ESA

#12 2005-04-11 10:37:28

Re: Greece Joins ESA

#13 2005-04-11 12:48:24

Re: Greece Joins ESA

#14 2024-04-20 14:49:53

Re: Greece Joins ESA

Board footer