"Ping" my fellow U.S. citizens

Grypd · 2005-03-14 16:46:44

Take it from me, Training ensures we dont. But, If you are stuck with a person for a long time this can waver and in fact fall and this may not be a bad thing. But if the lassie did not know the prisoner He should have been handcuffed or under some form of restraint.

And Guns are not allways the answer they are threatening things that simply inspire the other side to employ them as well. This does not mean they are not needed just not carried all the time.

Personal experience this is

Palomar · 2005-03-14 18:07:24

Grypd: And Guns are not allways the answer they are threatening things that simply inspire the other side to employ them as well. This does not mean they are not needed just not carried all the time.

*Hmmmm. Well, that's certainly not the case over here in Gun Happy America.

The deputy, a 51-year-old woman just 5 feet tall, was simply no match for the inmate she was escorting to the courtroom, a 6-foot-1, 200-pound former college linebacker on trial for rape. Authorities say Brian Nichols overpowered deputy Cynthia Hall, took her gun

Not to mention he's nearly 20 years her junior. ::shakes head:: Absurd. Completely absurd.

But now the story's a bit different: No mention that -she- was shot, nor that he grabbed a gun she was carrying in a belt holster, but that

Nichols apparently took Hall's gun from a lockbox, using her keys

Story's changed a bit, but still...could all have been avoided if he'd been restrained! At least 3 people are dead.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s … y_3]Latest version of events here

--Cindy

P.S.: And how ridiculous is this:

Authorities have said Nichols was not in handcuffs or shackles as he was being moved to the courtroom because they did not want to taint the jury by showing him in restraints.

He's already in jail, has been arrested. Showing him in handcuffs and restraints would have "tainted" the jury?? I'd expect to see a prisoner in said restraints. :-\

Grypd · 2005-03-14 18:40:13

The deputy, a 51-year-old woman just 5 feet tall, was simply no match for the inmate she was escorting to the courtroom, a 6-foot-1, 200-pound former college linebacker on trial for rape. Authorities say Brian Nichols overpowered deputy Cynthia Hall, took her gun
Not to mention he's nearly 20 years her junior. ::shakes head:: Absurd. Completely absurd.
But now the story's a bit different: No mention that -she- was shot, nor that he grabbed a gun she was carrying in a belt holster, but that
Nichols apparently took Hall's gun from a lockbox, using her keys
Story's changed a bit, but still...could all have been avoided if he'd been restrained! At least 3 people are dead.
P.S.: And how ridiculous is this:
Authorities have said Nichols was not in handcuffs or shackles as he was being moved to the courtroom because they did not want to taint the jury by showing him in restraints.
He's already in jail, has been arrested. Showing him in handcuffs and restraints would have "tainted" the jury?? I'd expect to see a prisoner in said restraints. :-\

Unfortunatly for the poor Guard is that Judges have a tendency to actually insist that people in front of them remain unbound. As it may prejudice a jury. Have run into this a lot before. Luckily the best case scenario if something goes wrong is that the prisoner simply runs away.

The problem is that Police etc dont actually make the law Judges do and going against there wishes is a sure fire way of getting up on a contempt of court charge.

Incidentally have run into doctors who insist on prisoners not being handcuffed even for minor matters. I have actually had on one occasion refused a doctor this wish as the guy we where escorting was considered to be that high a risk.

Still the one fundamental mistake this officer made when taking Brian Nichols into court was she did it on her own. If he is a risk then get help it really is that simple. The court can wait and Im sure it would have understood the reason.

Palomar · 2005-03-16 13:23:39

*They're still discussing the Georgia case. I saw a news segment last evening about smart guns. A spokesman for the technology firm developing the "smart gun" was interviewed. He said everyone's grasp for a golf club and the like is different/unique, as is everyone's grasp on (or grab for) a pistol. They're working on building in sensors to recognize your grip pattern and habits. If you're recognized, you can fire the pistol immediately. If not, it remains locked.

But what if your dominant hand/arm is injured, you cannot move anything let alone grip the pistol, and you have to try and shoot with your nondominant hand? ??? Guess they'd have to build in recognition that way too.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2005-03-16 13:38:10

*They're still discussing the Georgia case. I saw a news segment last evening about smart guns.

Yep, one of those fairly silly ideas that come up in situations similar to the recent Georgia case. Assuming the technology can be made to work reliably (it doesn't as yet exist), and can recognize the grip of the authorized user even under high-stress scenarios, with either hand, and in the case of cops recognize their partners, and not just fritz out as such gadgetry is prone to do.

I wouldn't use one.

Palomar · 2005-03-16 13:48:09

*They're still discussing the Georgia case. I saw a news segment last evening about smart guns.
Yep, one of those fairly silly ideas that come up in situations similar to the recent Georgia case. Assuming the technology can be made to work reliably (it doesn't as yet exist), and can recognize the grip of the authorized user even under high-stress scenarios, with either hand, and in the case of cops recognize their partners, and not just fritz out as such gadgetry is prone to do.
I wouldn't use one.

*Agreed. I'd rather take the chance of wrestling/fighting with someone over a pistol ready to fire no matter who has it, than take the chance (even if slim...but it only takes 1 time) of being rendered suddenly utterly helpless because of a glitch.

--Cindy

Grypd · 2005-03-16 17:23:47

But there are other means apart from a Gun that rquires to know your fingerprint etc. One option that has been seriously discussed is to have a small micro chip and I mean very small actually in your hand, both of them. The Gun will only fire when it is able to recieve that signal.

Add to the bullets leaving the Gun an electric signature of who fired it and you have a means to police and reduce threat in gun issue.

Cobra Commander · 2005-03-17 07:34:02

But there are other means apart from a Gun that rquires to know your fingerprint etc. One option that has been seriously discussed is to have a small micro chip and I mean very small actually in your hand, both of them. The Gun will only fire when it is able to recieve that signal.

The same sort of problems though, you still introduce a fairly delicate and relatively unreliable link in the chain. From weak batteries, impact damage, water or just the inexplicable failure to work that hits electronics from time to time I wouldn't trust it. Not to mention, how hard would it really be for dedicated criminals to get a device to jam or duplicate the signal?

Add to the bullets leaving the Gun an electric signature of who fired it and you have a means to police and reduce threat in gun issue.

In theory, but like "ballistic fingerprinting" it only tells you who the gun is registered to (or electronically authorized for), if at all, assuming it works in the first place. The guns that you really need an ID on the shooter overwhelmingly won't have one whatever scheme is used.

In the end what all of this is about is trying to make a safer version of a simple mechanical device designed to kill people, it's a bit farcical when you get down to it, like trying to make a knife that won't cut you.

Palomar · 2005-03-18 10:06:56

*Hmmm...someone started a new thread with the words "Corporate Warlords" in the title.

We Americans aren't as smart as we like to think, IMO. We rid ourselves of the yoke, chains and whip of monarchy and nobility, only to enslave ourselves to corporations. :-\ Back in the late 1700's most people were gullible enough to believe nasty propoganda against Thomas Paine, who hoped to bring the greatest measure of freedom and liberty to everyone -- including better education for women AND calls for abolishing slavery. They believed the "spin" put out by the rich, landed bigshots of the time that Paine was atheistic (untrue) scum and dangerous. So, of course, the wealthy property owners (the new aristocracy who hated the British system because it didn't recognize -them-...just like they, in turn, looked down their noses at less fortunate Americans...the old "it's OKAY when I do it" hypocritical b.s.) "won" that round. Master/slave again (meet the new boss -- same as the old boss).

My father often mentioned in the late 1970s/early 1980s the importance of continuing doing business with small business owners. He didn't like the rise of conglomerates, big-name department stores and etc. To that end, my spouse and I opt to eat at family-owned (small-business) restaurants rather than places like Applebee's, etc.

Wal-Mart has come up in recent discussions. Yep, I dislike their policies too. But what...go to Target instead? Another big corporation.

Now we're the serfs and slaves to the corporations. Sure, they can get you a better price and more services...and less alternative choices.

Farming has pretty much gone in the same direction. The mom and pop farm with chickens and pumpkin patches and tree swings are pretty much extinct.

I watched the Martha Stewart debacle, especially when she was in prison: Hundreds if not thousands of fiercely loyal fans
sending her money, sending homebaked goodies, writing scads of letters...

I'm glad, on a human level, nothing untoward or unpleasant happened to Martha while she was in prison, but gee whiz. Maybe dicktice is right: Americans ARE "frustrated royalists." :laugh:

We had an opportunity for true freedom (despite inexcusable abuses of others) and gave it up to the masters -we- put on the throne.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-03-18 16:15:25

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/p … heme]Green Acres is the place for meth

*Sorry...that's probably uncalled for. Is my home state, though. They've been battling this problem for quite some time now. I haven't returned to visit in years and the last time I was there, this problem was still not talked about much.

Unbelievable.

I remember a childhood friend, in the mid-1970s, once complaining about the fact that "everyone thinks all we do is ride around on tractors" (clod-hopper/backwater stereotype). I wish that were true. :-\ A former neighborhood friend, a year younger than I, got busted just last autumn for being involved in "the trade"; he and some pals were caught making meth in a "lab." He's got a daughter from a prior relationship and is looking at prison time. I haven't known him since childhood. A couple of people in my hometown were murdered by other people in "the trade"; unfortunately their little children were murdered alongside of them. A guy, in his late 20s, who grew up in my hometown (tiny hometown!) is in prison for life, for having murdered some people. I probably passed him on the street dozens of times when he was a kid, but don't know him and wouldn't recognize him.

A gal I once babysat for is all grown up, is going to prison for cooking meth and having her small daughter in the same house as that dangerous meth lab. A guy who used to go to my family's church spent time in prison in the mid-90s for drug trafficking; he got a reduced sentence for turning State's evidence against the ringleader.

Sure hits awfully close to home. I've never been in trouble with the law nor done drugs. Yet all these people on the periphery of just my life at one point or another, involved in this crap.

Scourge of the Heartland. Sad, shameful. I remember, in the 1970s and 1980s, some people growing marijuana in their basements, for their own use and to sell to friends...that was the extent of it. Beyond that, drug cartels and hard narcotics were only heard about in metropolitan cities or on the East/West Coast.

Times sure have changed. I hope they can get this situation back under control.

--Cindy

P.S.: I tried to persuade my husband to move in the mid-90s, to that area. I am very glad we did not. But now we're hearing reports of increasing meth labs in rural portions of this state. So who knows...we may be facing this scourge next. I hope not.

Palomar · 2005-03-25 06:25:05

*As we all know, there's been another ugly school-shooting incident (Red Lake, Minnesota).

When will people learn? Where were the adults prior to this tragedy?

The shooter, a very troubled 16-year-old named Jeff, was obviously crying out for attention/help. Spiked up "devil's hair" worn to school, constantly changing hair color, wearing black all the time, telling at least one person he felt like killing people, had no friends ("loner"), etc. Jeff also checked himself into a psychiatric hospital at least once, about a year ago. And he was willing to take anti-depressants. Seems to me this youngster was trying to fight his way out of the enormous depression, isolation and hopelessness he was feeling. He wrote in his diary that he had occasional (brief) periods of hope, but apparently that hope was crushed too quickly again. I can't recall the specifics, but his parents were not in the picture.

The fact that Jeff was trying to overcome his depression and psychological troubles makes me feel sorry for him in this situation, too. And of course for his victims.

The adults in the vicinity?

Apparently Jeff was targeted for a lot of teasing and being picked on. Kids will be kids, of course. Did any of the adults ever try pointing out to his classmates and peers that perhaps it's not smart constantly "ribbing" someone displaying such behaviors day-in/day-out because they might be a ticking time bomb about to go off? ???

Last I saw on TV news, one of the residents of the community (an older man) was challenging the community elders to come out and visit the victims, to interact.

Sad all the way around. Jeff probably could have been helped -- he was willing and did try to help himself. But he's still a kid, and there's only so much he could do for himself.

And now victims are suffering, some have died, all will live with emotional and physical scars.

The adults are to blame for this. Just like they are in almost ALL of these cases, regardless of geographics, race, etc.

--Cindy

::EDIT:: http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/SchoolS … ]Political cartoons about school shootings

Check out "America the Brutiful" on page 6. Good luck trying to get America to give up guns; it's like trying to pry a whisky bottle out of the hands of a drunkard on skid row.

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#51 2005-03-14 16:46:44

Re: "Ping" my fellow U.S. citizens

#52 2005-03-14 18:07:24

Re: "Ping" my fellow U.S. citizens

#53 2005-03-14 18:40:13

Re: "Ping" my fellow U.S. citizens

#54 2005-03-16 13:23:39

Re: "Ping" my fellow U.S. citizens

#55 2005-03-16 13:38:10

Re: "Ping" my fellow U.S. citizens

#56 2005-03-16 13:48:09

Re: "Ping" my fellow U.S. citizens

#57 2005-03-16 17:23:47

Re: "Ping" my fellow U.S. citizens

#58 2005-03-17 07:34:02

Re: "Ping" my fellow U.S. citizens

#59 2005-03-18 10:06:56

Re: "Ping" my fellow U.S. citizens

#60 2005-03-18 16:15:25

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#61 2005-03-25 06:25:05

Re: "Ping" my fellow U.S. citizens

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