The Dollar as Old Maid - Borrow and spend is unsustainable

BWhite · 2005-02-26 09:56:13

http://www.investorsinsight.com/article … 22505]Link

Two years ago 88 cents bought a euro. Today that is over a $1.30.

Palomar · 2005-02-26 10:15:16

*It'll bounce back.

Reminds me (unrelated but similar) of reports we occasionally hear of tomato or lettuce crops being massively wiped out in a certain state or states from flooding or whatever, etc., and how prices will climb sharply (due to shipping costs to your area) and the produce might become scarce as well...and yet there's plenty of that same type of produce in every supermarket in town and the cost is maybe a few pennies higher per pound.

I don't mean to sound flippant and I'm not happy with the economy either...but it'll come back around.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2005-02-26 10:24:39

Interesting. Well, as much as an article on international economic fluctuations can be.

Certainly there are advantages as well as disadvantages to a falling dollar, but I'd go so far as to say that it's primarily the result of having multiple currencies based on essentially nothing.

While I've come to step back from my old gold-backed currency position the fact remains that a currency directly backed by something real negates most of the currency games that occur at present. The US has altered the foundation of its currency on more than one occasion, perhaps now would be a good time to consider transitioning to an indexed currency backed directly by a group of tradeable commodities. For example, every dollar backed by a pre-determined mixture of gold, steel, oil, wheat, beef, etc. Basic stuff that underpins the economic workings of the country. Any fluctuation in one of the items is balanced by the others, negating the potential for swings with gold alone, yet the currency is essentially immune to number-fudging and collapse. It becomes a direct marker of the economic life of the nation, likely the closest we can realistically get to a direct valuation of individual labor.

C M Edwards · 2005-02-26 12:50:50

Yes, Cobra, but then economists would have to tell the truth! The end result could be a disastrous academic version of Liar Liar.

BWhite · 2005-02-26 13:47:47

*It'll bounce back.
Reminds me (unrelated but similar) of reports we occasionally hear of tomato or lettuce crops being massively wiped out in a certain state or states from flooding or whatever, etc., and how prices will climb sharply (due to shipping costs to your area) and the produce might become scarce as well...and yet there's plenty of that same type of produce in every supermarket in town and the cost is maybe a few pennies higher per pound.
I don't mean to sound flippant and I'm not happy with the economy either...but it'll come back around.
--Cindy

True - but one side efect of that "bounce back" will be a reduction in the US standard of living. Higher interest rates will raise the value of the dollar and reduce our ability to consume goods and services.

A weaker dollar makes it easier to export yet "we" cancel purchases or reduce consumption. A vacation at the Stratford Shakespeaere festival in Ontario will cost my family substantially more this summer than in years past, meaning less money for other stuff, or a different vacation.

The huge unpopped bubble is US debt.

Public, corporate and consumer. Too many families have maxed out their credit cards. Too many families are using debt to fund their monthly budget and that is unsustainable. The adjustment will be very painful.

= = =

Cobra wants a global currency? Hmmm....

Sounds socialist.

Edit: Next, he will want uniform global regulations for banking and finance. I know Citibank wants that.

btw, my favorite anti-globalization story is an anecdote about a Belgian "opponent" of globalization kicking a cash machine in the Buenos Aires airport because it wouldn't dispense dollars and charge the transaction to a VISA card issued by a bank in Zurich .

:;):

Edited By BWhite on 1109449558

Grypd · 2005-02-26 15:04:39

There are two sides to everything and this also applies to the falling Dollar. Though it allows buisness to be able to sell its products a lot easier it also means that the companies themselves become a lot easier pray to hostile takeovers by foreign companies. And if you require resources from abroad like Oil you find that you are paying a lot more for them.

Still it is when it is reset that it really hurts. Even if it starts to rise all the people who have debts or credit find they are needing to pay a lot more interest. People find there jobs going and small buisness gets hammered.

Cobra Commander · 2005-02-26 16:53:02

Cobra wants a global currency? Hmmm....
Sounds socialist.

Actually I'm just saying the US should consider, if the rest of the world wants to follow, great, but it isn't necessary. Particularly being that the Dollar is close to a de facto global currency already, at least for the time being.

besides, how is a global currency socialist? it's not as though I advocated taking it from the producers and giving it away. :;):

True - but one side efect of that "bounce back" will be a reduction in the US standard of living. Higher interest rates will raise the value of the dollar and reduce our ability to consume goods and services.

Yes, yet I'm torn about this. On the one hand no one wants a reduced standard of living, least of all me. On the other hand, a wee bit of hardship might be good for us, Americans have by and large become a rather soft lot, creatures of comfort who have difficulty coping with even the most trivial inconveniences. A little temporary dip won't be the end of the world and we might even be better for it.

Gold and firearms, invest in the future.

BWhite · 2005-02-26 17:57:19

Cobra wants a global currency? Hmmm....
Sounds socialist.
Actually I'm just saying the US should consider, if the rest of the world wants to follow, great, but it isn't necessary. Particularly being that the Dollar is close to a de facto global currency already, at least for the time being.
besides, how is a global currency socialist? it's not as though I advocated taking it from the producers and giving it away. :;):

Fair enough, socialist may not be accurate. But it got your attention, no?

But, a global currency would signify the coming end of the traditional system of nation-states, excatly as I argued about with Shaun a while back. A global system of largely uniform laws for finance and banking would be an even stronger signal.

Grypd · 2005-02-26 18:16:30

Cobra wants a global currency? Hmmm....
Sounds socialist.
Actually I'm just saying the US should consider, if the rest of the world wants to follow, great, but it isn't necessary. Particularly being that the Dollar is close to a de facto global currency already, at least for the time being.
besides, how is a global currency socialist? it's not as though I advocated taking it from the producers and giving it away. :;):
Fair enough, socialist may not be accurate. But it got your attention, no?
But, a global currency would signify the coming end of the traditional system of nation-states, excatly as I argued about with Shaun a while back. A global system of largely uniform laws for finance and banking would be an even stronger signal.

It would especially when there would obviously be an organisation in control of what happens to the money ie how much is printed and in its worth. This is a world bank extraordinaire with the power to tell countries where to go.

The Dollar though used still for measuring how much an item has value ie Oil barrels really is not as useful as it once was and many countries no longer believe it to be stable. This is especially in the case of Argentina which pegged its currency to the Dollar in the erstwhile hope of fiscal security and was badly stung. Actually not having recovered from it.

The only currency that appears to be a threat to the percieved Dollar hegemony is the Euro. It has benefitted from the damage the Dollars slide has done and with some reforms in its member nations could actually become the defact trading financial stock. Ie how many Euros to a barrel of Oil.

For the USA this would be percieved as a real loss of power and respect. And in these dangerous times it would be a real body blow. And with certain countries notably China holding very large reserves of Dollars it could happen that should a sudden slide in Dollars value occur happen then China could dispose of its Dollars and exasperate a bad situation tumbling the dollar to being worth nothing. It happened to the USSR

BWhite · 2005-02-26 19:41:45

A global bank in control of a global currency? Time to read our Andrew Jackson biographies.

Martian Republic · 2005-02-26 22:12:47

Actually I'm just saying the US should consider, if the rest of the world wants to follow, great, but it isn't necessary. Particularly being that the Dollar is close to a de facto global currency already, at least for the time being.
besides, how is a global currency socialist? it's not as though I advocated taking it from the producers and giving it away. :;):
Fair enough, socialist may not be accurate. But it got your attention, no?
But, a global currency would signify the coming end of the traditional system of nation-states, excatly as I argued about with Shaun a while back. A global system of largely uniform laws for finance and banking would be an even stronger signal.
It would especially when there would obviously be an organisation in control of what happens to the money ie how much is printed and in its worth. This is a world bank extraordinaire with the power to tell countries where to go.
The Dollar though used still for measuring how much an item has value ie Oil barrels really is not as useful as it once was and many countries no longer believe it to be stable. This is especially in the case of Argentina which pegged its currency to the Dollar in the erstwhile hope of fiscal security and was badly stung. Actually not having recovered from it.
The only currency that appears to be a threat to the percieved Dollar hegemony is the Euro. It has benefitted from the damage the Dollars slide has done and with some reforms in its member nations could actually become the defact trading financial stock. Ie how many Euros to a barrel of Oil.
For the USA this would be percieved as a real loss of power and respect. And in these dangerous times it would be a real body blow. And with certain countries notably China holding very large reserves of Dollars it could happen that should a sudden slide in Dollars value occur happen then China could dispose of its Dollars and exasperate a bad situation tumbling the dollar to being worth nothing. It happened to the USSR

If the Euro become the defacto currency, that would plunge the United States into a depression, because we import most of our stuff from overseas now like shoes, clothing, TV and we would have to have Euro's buy those products instead of just printing dollars. Our only recourse would be to become a third world country or declare bankruptcy and reorganize our financial house by reorganizing the Federal Reserve System by having the Treasury take it over or setup a Third National Banking System.

Larry,

Dook · 2005-02-27 08:20:24

If the Euro become the defacto currency, that would plunge the United States into a depression, because we import most of our stuff from overseas now like shoes, clothing, TV and we would have to have Euro's buy those products instead of just printing dollars. Our only recourse would be to become a third world country or declare bankruptcy and reorganize our financial house by reorganizing the Federal Reserve System by having the Treasury take it over or setup a Third National Banking System.
Larry,

The economy is like a roller coaster. Things do well, the stock market goes up, people investing think everythings great and they invest too much, things become over valued, then usually one big headline causes it to crash and when it falls it falls farther than it should. People worry and save, the worth of stocks falls, things become undervalued, but it comes back up. Why?

Because the population is still growing. All of these new people need food, clothing, vehicles, airline tickets, coca-cola, cigarettes, alcohol, computers, furniture...

When we purchase a new Toyota we don't have to use foreign currency. The worth of the two, dollar/yen, is compared and the worth transferred from one account to another.

And the US will never be a third world country. The work ethic of Americans (and those who come here to work) now and through history is one of invention, development, and discovery. Most third world countries have just as many resources as the US but look at what they have done for themselves.

BWhite · 2005-02-27 09:21:14

And the US will never be a third world country. The work ethic of Americans (and those who come here to work) now and through history is one of invention, development, and discovery. Most third world countries have just as many resources as the US but look at what they have done for themselves.

Currently, we consume more than we produce. We spend more than we earn. That is unsustainable.

We ARE productive, just not productive enough to sustain our current level of spending.

Dook · 2005-02-27 10:06:26

Currently, we consume more than we produce. We spend more than we earn. That is unsustainable.
We ARE productive, just not productive enough to sustain our current level of spending.

The government definately needs to pull back the reins on it's spending and improve the efficiency of it's departments. It is unsustainable forever but we have time. The war on terror, in Iraq, and the problem social security have put us in a position where we cannot trim spending at the moment but in the future we will because, we have to.

I believe that we have to take these steps:
1) An independant review of every department's practices with a focus on improving efficiency and a 5% reduction in federal workers gained through attrition.
2) A 4% increase in income taxes plus a 5 cent federal increase applied to both alcohol and cigarettes. All of this must go toward balancing the budget and paying down the national debt.
3) An efficiency program instituted for the military. Unit commanders who return money to the general fund while still accomplishing their mission and maintain morale get better proficiency reports.
4) Cut the funding to most of the programs cited by the Citizens Against Governmental Waste.

Really the biggest abusers of taxpayer money is congress itself. Millions to build a tropical jungle in Ohio?

I believe the President needs to take drastic steps. He needs to publicly denounce these bills and point out the congressmen who initiate them, then he needs to veto them. I would veto every single bill that congress approves if there is any expenditure at all or any line items that does not have anything to do with the original bill.

Citizens Against Government Waste website
http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pag … ports_main

BWhite · 2005-02-27 10:43:33

Millions for pork in Ohio? Heh! More of the same ole' same ole' - - you got a speck in your eye, ignore the plank in mine.

Yup. Welfare mothers scam thousands, corporate big-wigs scam billions. Better slap down those welfare queens!

[I might trade missile defense cuts for a few social program cuts, however, since by the time missile defense is operational (if ever) the Chinese won't need to send ICBMs, they will merely need to call our bonds due.]

= = =

Take away power from Congress and give it to our Precious Leader?

Yup. Exactly what Bush wants.

Edit: Just say "No!" - - to fascism!

= = =

Look at a pie chart of the federal budget.

Interest and defense are the biggest items by far. Tell me what to cut and be specific, not vague "efficiency" and "welfare queen" nonsense.

Of course, if we can lie and convince people Social Security is broken, we can cut benefits and solve the problem that way. Standard corporate raider operating procedure. Grab power and steal the pension funds.

Edited By BWhite on 1109522698

Martian Republic · 2005-02-27 10:50:34

If the Euro become the defacto currency, that would plunge the United States into a depression, because we import most of our stuff from overseas now like shoes, clothing, TV and we would have to have Euro's buy those products instead of just printing dollars. Our only recourse would be to become a third world country or declare bankruptcy and reorganize our financial house by reorganizing the Federal Reserve System by having the Treasury take it over or setup a Third National Banking System.
Larry,
The economy is like a roller coaster. Things do well, the stock market goes up, people investing think everythings great and they invest too much, things become over valued, then usually one big headline causes it to crash and when it falls it falls farther than it should. People worry and save, the worth of stocks falls, things become undervalued, but it comes back up. Why?
Because the population is still growing. All of these new people need food, clothing, vehicles, airline tickets, coca-cola, cigarettes, alcohol, computers, furniture...
When we purchase a new Toyota we don't have to use foreign currency. The worth of the two, dollar/yen, is compared and the worth transferred from one account to another.
And the US will never be a third world country. The work ethic of Americans (and those who come here to work) now and through history is one of invention, development, and discovery. Most third world countries have just as many resources as the US but look at what they have done for themselves.

You are making several assumption that are not correct.

The first assertion that you make that not correct is. Once the US Dollars is no longer the medium of exchange and the Euro becomes the medium of exchange and oil is paged at the Euro instead of the dollar, then we will have to buy Euro's to buy oil and other things. We are currently Euro poor when it comes to having Euro's which we would have to acquire through trading and we are currently 500 billion dollars in the red to even hit Zero Trade Deficit department. Then we have the trade deficit of over the last ten to fifteen years with an accumulation of several trillion dollars. So if the rest of the world goes off the dollars standard we are going to be hurting.

Your second assertion that not correct is that the dollar has a value, which is not true. The only thing that give the dollar any real value is the American worker that produces goods and services and the dollar is the medium of exchange within the United States. Otherwise the US dollar is worthless and is just a piece of paper with a note on it as to it supposed value. The US dollar will only be useful for internal use and will have very limited use externally with other countries once the US dollar stops being the medium of exchange for the rest of the world.

Your third assertion that not correct is that the United States is productive that it can produce for itself or has something to trade with other countries to get what we need. That not true either once the US Dollar is no longer the medium of exchange, then we have nothing to offer the rest of the world, because we no longer produce goods and services the way use to in the past. We use to be one of the world exporters of food, TV, Radio's, Cloth, shoe's, car's, air planes, etc. Now we are one of the net importer of all or most of these things with very little to exchange with other nation of the world of things that they would want from us. We close down most of our factories and farms so we don't produce goods and services for either the American People or for trading with the rest of the world either.

That one of the reason's that George Bush sent American troops to Iraq. To control the oil and to eliminate Saddom Hussien for take his oil off the US Dollars Standard and putting it on the Euro currency. The only thing that keeping the US Dollar afloat is the fact that it the medium of exchange of the world. If the rest of the world should use Euro's instead of dollars for there medium of exchange, the dollar will drop like a rock with nothing to stop it and it will become basically worthless. With trillion's dollars of debt that we currently have and having to generate 500 billion dollars of more debt each year to stay afloat, the rest of the world will not keep trading with the United States.

That why George Bush is trying to steal Social Security for Wall Street, because there broke and they need the cash flow to keep the system from collapsing like in 1929. But, stealing Social Security will only delay this collapse for a few weeks or possibly a few months and then it will collapse anyway, minus the Social Security System for the general population. I don't care if you admit it or don't admit it, there a 1929 Stock Market crash coming and there nothing that can stop it.

Our only recourse is to put this bankrupt system through Chapter 11 bankruptcy and reorganization and setup a new economic system to replace it like FDR did for the 1929 depression. There is no other choices, but these two choices.

Economic collapse on a national bases.

Or Economic reorganization on a national bases.

There is no third possibility and anybody that thinks there is, is either lying or deceiving himself or herself.

Larry,

BWhite · 2005-02-27 11:27:07

Is this relevant?

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinside … 7.htm]Ford Motor "reported a full-year 2004 net income of $3.5 billion, seven times its 2003 total, despite a challenging environment that included declining market share and and skyrocketing costs for health care and steel."

Great, right? America'a manufacturers are healthy!

But wait. . .

But Ford's performance was less due to car and truck sales than record results by its financing arm. Ford Motor Credit Company's net income totaled $2.9 billion for the year, up $1.1 billion from 2003.

80% of Ford Motor profits come from finance and insurance. Let that settle in for a minute.

Dook · 2005-02-27 11:58:47

Yup. Welfare mothers scam thousands, corporate big-wigs scam billions. Better slap down those welfare queens!
[I might trade missile defense cuts for a few social program cuts, however, since by the time missile defense is operational (if ever) the Chinese won't need to send ICBMs, they will merely need to call our bonds due.]
Look at a pie chart of the federal budget.
Interest and defense are the biggest items by far. Tell me what to cut and be specific, not vague "efficiency" and "welfare queen" nonsense.
Of course, if we can lie and convince people Social Security is broken

Nobody said anything about 'welfare queens' and big-wigs scam billions from their shareholders, not the government. You're a spin doctor, don't mix apples, oranges, and banana's.

And interest on the debt and defense are second in the budget to Health and Human Services.

Sure defense could use some cuts, I personnally approve of about half of the Citizens Against Government Waste recommendations for defense cuts but even if you cut all the money the defense dept. gets it almost gets you a balanced budget and pays no interest on the national debt.

So no matter how you look at it social programs need to be cut as well. You prioritize, the ones providing the most benefit stay while the many, many, others go. How does a jungle in Ohio benefit people? Over the long run the interest we will pay on that $1 million or so will end up costing us another $1 million.

And whether you like the President or not he has always had the power to veto every damn thing that congress approves and they can (good luck) overrule him.

I would very much like to see your proof that social security does not need fixing. Probably just more "it's the military's fault" nonsense.

Dook · 2005-02-27 12:33:11

Martian Republic:

The dollar is not the medium of exchange now. Get a grip, they don't haul US dollars around, it's just numbers on a computer screen. We will never have to buy Euro's, ONLY THE WORTH is exchanged. If you want buy a Toyota and the dollar is down compared to the yen then you have to pay more. That's it. You don't have to go out and find more yen. When you buy a new pair of Reebok's do you use Euro's? Or when you order a Guinness? NO!

The dollar as a piece of paper is worthless just as any money on it's own is basically worthless. We do this because it's smart and we don't want to be stupid. People don't want to carry around heavy clumps of gold to buy things. And even in you were to recreate the gold standard and base your dollars worth on that, that piece of paper would still be worthless on it's own. The dollar is backed by the US government and is accepted and preferred EVERYWHERE! Many countries won't accept their own currency because of the problem with their local black markets. I just went to the Seychelles and they won't even accept their own money! I had to use American $ to pay for my coca-cola.

The US has nothing to offer the rest of the world? OMG dude, take a trip and see what other countries are like. See how all of Europe shuts down for 4 hours in the middle of the day to take a nap. Let me tell you what the world wants most since you don't know: American movies, cigarettes, soft drinks... Also the immense food production of the US keeps food prices low for many third world countries and we even give them some of the money to pay for it!

China's recent growing economy is nothing compared to what the US economy has given the world in the last 50 years. We've driven the worlds economy for a very long time. In fact much of their economy is based on US factories. Also the following report, out today, shows the world's largest economies (US not China) productivity is growing.

http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news/ne … p?id=21249

If the dollar's worth drops like a rock then our goods become less expensive to the rest of the world and American's then have to pay more for foreign goods, which they won't so that is good for our economy. Dude, sign up for a marco-economics class.

War for oil, omg. Then why haven't our gas prices gone down? Where's all this oil, that we are supposedly stealing, going if not into the world's oil markets?

Yeah, yeah, that's why stock prices are up and the Fed's are probably going to raise interest rates yet again to slow the economy down.

The sky is not falling no matter how much you run around crying about it.

Grypd · 2005-02-27 14:04:21

The US has nothing to offer the rest of the world? OMG dude, take a trip and see what other countries are like. See how all of Europe shuts down for 4 hours in the middle of the day to take a nap. Let me tell you what the world wants most since you don't know: American movies, cigarettes, soft drinks... Also the immense food production of the US keeps food prices low for many third world countries and we even give them some of the money to pay for it!
If the dollar's worth drops like a rock then our goods become less expensive to the rest of the world and American's then have to pay more for foreign goods, which they won't so that is good for our economy. Dude, sign up for a marco-economics class.

Dook im a european take it from me my country does not shut down when the sun is high. But certain countries do, it is there culture to do so, Then again though they consider the working day to go well into the evening. They evolved this way of working when air conditioning was not invented. Actually they consider it mad to be moving around at noon and early afternoon.

The United States is a tremendous producer of food but this is due to a very highly concentrated industrialised way of operation. It requires extensive use of machinery and chemicals. Any hindrance to oil would seriously dent this production and there are a lot of people looking for Oil at the moment.

Even with the Dollar falling in value it actually does not increase exports too much. Most products are now made in countries other than the traditional western sources. These production countries still have the advantage with there much reduced costs that a low dollar USA cannot even match! Especially with most products made in the USA requiring resources from outside countries that do require payment.

A lot of the value in what is the Global american firms are that they are making there money abroad or in financial services. This means making money by selling loans and credit cards

War for oil, omg. Then why haven't our gas prices gone down? Where's all this oil, that we are supposedly stealing, going if not into the world's oil markets?

It is going into the worlds market. But the demand for Oil at the moment is incredible and many countries are pumping at full capacity. This is generally put down to India and Chinas new and increasing demand for fuel. Iraq is hardly ready to increase its oil exports yet it is still trying to repair and modernise the infrastructure it already has. Oil prices are rising and it is apparent they are not going to go back down, actually expect some real big increases this year.

The sky is not falling but it is just the general trend of economic power shifting. It is at the expense of the USA but that is free market economics for you. And it is open for sabotage like everything. imagine if China was to dump its dollars cheap. it would hurt the Chinese but it would do a lot more damage to the USA. It is an example of just how really fragile the worlds economy has been designed to be.

Martian Republic · 2005-02-27 14:07:48

Martian Republic:
The dollar is not the medium of exchange now. Get a grip, they don't haul US dollars around, it's just numbers on a computer screen. We will never have to buy Euro's, ONLY THE WORTH is exchanged. If you want buy a Toyota and the dollar is down compared to the yen then you have to pay more. That's it. You don't have to go out and find more yen. When you buy a new pair of Reebok's do you use Euro's? Or when you order a Guinness? NO!
The dollar as a piece of paper is worthless just as any money on it's own is basically worthless. We do this because it's smart and we don't want to be stupid. People don't want to carry around heavy clumps of gold to buy things. And even in you were to recreate the gold standard and base your dollars worth on that, that piece of paper would still be worthless on it's own. The dollar is backed by the US government and is accepted and preferred EVERYWHERE! Many countries won't accept their own currency because of the problem with their local black markets. I just went to the Seychelles and they won't even accept their own money! I had to use American $ to pay for my coca-cola.
The US has nothing to offer the rest of the world? OMG dude, take a trip and see what other countries are like. See how all of Europe shuts down for 4 hours in the middle of the day to take a nap. Let me tell you what the world wants most since you don't know: American movies, cigarettes, soft drinks... Also the immense food production of the US keeps food prices low for many third world countries and we even give them some of the money to pay for it!
China's recent growing economy is nothing compared to what the US economy has given the world in the last 50 years. We've driven the worlds economy for a very long time. In fact much of their economy is based on US factories. Also the following report, out today, shows the world's largest economies (US not China) productivity is growing.
http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news/ne … p?id=21249
If the dollar's worth drops like a rock then our goods become less expensive to the rest of the world and American's then have to pay more for foreign goods, which they won't so that is good for our economy. Dude, sign up for a marco-economics class.
War for oil, omg. Then why haven't our gas prices gone down? Where's all this oil, that we are supposedly stealing, going if not into the world's oil markets?
Yeah, yeah, that's why stock prices are up and the Fed's are probably going to raise interest rates yet again to slow the economy down.
The sky is not falling no matter how much you run around crying about it.

Here are a few links that deal with the Bush con job on trying to sell his scam of privatizing the Social Security System. Oh, this privatization of Social Security is based on Pinochet who is that dictator in Chile and he had to install it at gun point. Which should give you a heads up as to what George Bush is trying to pull on the American People. George Bush is trying to push something on the American people that could only be put in place by a fascist dictator in Chile.

http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modu … ...sid=963

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http://www.new-enlightenment.com/sss1.h … m/sss1.htm

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http://counterpunch.org/sustar01142005. … 42005.html

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http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6827519/]http:/ … d/6827519/

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http://www.rense.com/general61/codnj.ht … /codnj.htm

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http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/writin … ...sec.htm

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The US dollar is not put out by the US Government, but by a Private Bank Called the Federal Reserve Bank. The following web links are from the Federal Reserve Web Site and is what it has to say about itself. So you can read it for yourself.

The Federal Reserve System was created in 1913.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalin … nfo/fract/

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The Federal Reserve System was created by the US Government, but is not part of the US Government. It has a Government Charter to function as the Central Bank of the United States, but is private banking system and not part of the US Government.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalin … sect01.htm

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The Federal Reserve is a Private Bank with stockholder. These Stockholder are other member private banks like Chase Manhattan or American Bank.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalin … sect04.htm

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It is the Federal Reserve that creates the US Dollar, but the US Dollars is actually a credit note by the Federal Reserve System and loaned to the US Government. When you pay Federal Taxes, you pay the Federal Reserve System and they take there cut and take there members banks like Chase Manhattan cut off the top and give the Federal Government the rest of the money. So when you pay your Federal Taxes, your not paying the US Government, your paying the Federal Reserve System. Which under US Law you don’t have to do that, but that why the IRS was created to intimidate you into paying a private bank your Federal Tax money.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalin … sect05.htm

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The Federal Reserve System is suppose to stay inside the United States as there home base, but technically they don’t have to. Since they are basically a private institution.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalin … ect25a.htm

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The Federal Reserve System which is a non government operation, engages in foreign policies agreement apart from the US Government and even goes contrary to US foreign policies deals. The Federal Reserve sometime even supersedes the elected Government of the United States with there financial policies also.

http://www.bis.org/cgfs/cgfsconf2005.ht … nf2005.htm

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Larry,

Dook · 2005-02-27 14:45:01

The United States is a tremendous producer of food but this is due to a very highly concentrated industrialised way of operation. It requires extensive use of machinery and chemicals. Any hindrance to oil would seriously dent this production and there are a lot of people looking for Oil at the moment.
Even with the Dollar falling in value it actually does not increase exports too much. Most products are now made in countries other than the traditional western sources. These production countries still have the advantage with there much reduced costs that a low dollar USA cannot even match! Especially with most products made in the USA requiring resources from outside countries that do require payment.
A lot of the value in what is the Global american firms are that they are making there money abroad or in financial services. This means making money by selling loans and credit cards
The sky is not falling but it is just the general trend of economic power shifting. It is at the expense of the USA but that is free market economics for you. And it is open for sabotage like everything. imagine if China was to dump its dollars cheap. it would hurt the Chinese but it would do a lot more damage to the USA. It is an example of just how really fragile the worlds economy has been designed to be.

In reality the US cannot compete with many foreign farmers because the US farmers quality of life is much higher, we will not work for $1 an hour so the government subsidizes our farmers.

North America's consumption of oil is large, in 2001 it was 46 (in quadrillion btu) vs 28.5 for Western Europe, and 13 for industrialized Asia but we all know that oil prices can only go up that's why fuel cell powered vehicles and hybrids will begin to replace gasoline powered ones.

The dollar falling in value may not increase exports too much but American consumers love a bargain and with foreign products becoming more expensive because of it, look out!

General trend of power shifting? In 2001 the US GDP was $9,394 billion. Compare that with all of Western Europe at $9,513. China's economy is equal to Italy's at $1,212 billion.

The US population has a lot of room for growth, Western Europe not so much. China's population is already so large that they have even less room.

I for one am not worried a bit about the future of the US in relation to the rest of the world.

BWhite · 2005-02-27 16:27:07

I for one am not worried a bit about the future of the US in relation to the rest of the world.

Big picture, neither am I, there merely will be a whole lot of unnecessary suffering caused by our current "borrow & spend" Administration.

Borrow and spend is exactly the same as tax and spend only the taxes are billed to our children.

Dook · 2005-02-27 17:58:59

Every administration since the Civil War has been a borrow and spend administration. You know if you don't like Bush because you are against the war just say that. Spin, spin, spin.

Martian Republic · 2005-02-27 18:33:43

Every administration since the Civil War has been a borrow and spend administration. You know if you don't like Bush because you are against the war just say that. Spin, spin, spin.

It is true I don't like the war in Iraq, but this is the first so called war President that has cut taxes during war. Beside I consider George Bush a war criminal. But that is beside the point and that was not the subject that we were talking about and your trying to change the subject.

I gave you my sources as George Bush stealing Social Security from the American People and I referenced the Chile Dictator as George Bush's model for Privatizing our Social Security. George Bush himself said that the Pinochet Plan was the plan that he was using. The Chile Social Security went belly up. The British tried it on a limited bases and they took a beating on privatization of there Social Security System. Matter of fact, there have been six to eight different countries that have tried it on a limited bases and it was a bad deal for them too and there coming off privatization system, because there losing too much money in there privatization program.

Now dollar and Federal Reserve System and what I said about them was a paraphrase of what the Federal Reserve System say's they are and are not my own words.

Larry,

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