Tsunami in Asia

GraemeSkinner · 2005-01-03 23:37:44

Just seen on the news this AM, that India have rejected foreign aid for recovery from the tsunami - seems a bit strange to me.

Graeme

GraemeSkinner · 2005-01-04 00:35:23

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific … 7.stm]Just Seen This

Runway accident with relief cargo plane, now limited to helicopter take offs only at the airport.

Graeme

Palomar · 2005-01-04 06:15:58

Just seen on the news this AM, that India have rejected foreign aid for recovery from the tsunami - seems a bit strange to me.
Graeme

*Oh, it's probably some childish and assinine "reason" such as not wanting to appear weak and needy to Pakistan -- especially as taking help from the United States goes.

And of course the persons making the decision to refuse help are likely the very ones who don't need it. So long as they've got full plates and clean water, who cares about anyone else? Most people in power are assh0les anyway.

Now the question is: Is India helping their own? ???

--Cindy

Dook · 2005-01-04 06:36:18

They should have notified CNN when they knew the earthquake hit and CNN could have put out a warning. It wouldn't have saved those first hit by the tsunami but tourists in other parts would surely have seen the broadcast and the word would have gone out. CNN is seen all over the world.

I was in the middle east when it hit. CNN and BBC were covering it non-stop. The arab news channels were a whole day late in covering it and then it was only the top story before all the others. Al Jazeera was too busy covering the problems in Iraq.

Also the Red Cross is at the bottom of my list for aid agencies. They pay their area directors way too much, $200,000 a year! As much as the president! For a charity that is just insane.

John Creighton · 2005-01-04 15:31:24

*Oh, it's probably some childish and assinine "reason" such as not wanting to appear weak and needy to Pakistan -- especially as taking help from the United States goes.
And of course the persons making the decision to refuse help are likely the very ones who don't need it. So long as they've got full plates and clean water, who cares about anyone else? Most people in power are assh0les anyway.

Or maybe it is a very noble gesture. By India refusing aid it means more aid can go to countries that are less able to help them selves. India was further away from the tusimi epie center, it has a large population, economy and its elevation increases quickly from the cost.

Now the question is: Is India helping their own?

I thought India might be helping some other countries. Its large population and ships in the area must have been of some use. I wonder how many of India’s ships got damaged.

Shaun Barrett · 2005-01-04 17:49:30

I seem to remember a report last week that about 400 fishing boats were missing from the east coast of India(?). But there were so many confusing reports at the time it's hard to know if that report was accurate - and does "missing" necessarily mean destroyed? I never noticed a follow-up to that one.

I'm proud to say, the last time I heard, Aussies had privately raised $83 million in donations for the relief effort. That total is still rising and I think it may have stung the government, who were only promising about $65 million in aid, because there's now talk of Australia providing $500 million.
I certainly hope the rumour is true because we're a wealthy country and can afford to be generous in the face of all that suffering among our poorer neighbours.

I believe the U.S. has offered $450 million so far and I note the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln was among the first on the scene, using its helicopters to distribute food etc.
Well done, America!
Always there to help in an emergency. :up:

I predict that America will first of all be blamed for the shift in the Earth's crust that caused the tsunami. Then, when it becomes impossible to make the accusation stick, she will be denigrated for not doing enough to warn everybody it was happening, and then castigated for not doing enough to help those affected.
It wouldn't make any difference if America donated $50 billion, of course; her detractors can never be satisfied.
:;):

SpaceNut · 2005-01-05 05:56:47

Well this mornings radio news had an arab news media as saying that a joint Japanese, US and a few other nations set off an atomic bomb that caused this catastrophy. This same radio news also warned of child trafficing, kidnapping and such fears.
They also commented that not much news of the American efforts to aid in this disaster were being broadcast as another way that the media was clouding the reality of things. Then they topped this all off with the followup news on Bagdad assasination and car bombing as if to put more bad light on the US war.
Just Great how the news media can play both sides to distort the truth. :angry:

GraemeSkinner · 2005-01-05 06:04:22

I predict that America will first of all be blamed for the shift in the Earth's crust that caused the tsunami. Then, when it becomes impossible to make the accusation stick, she will be denigrated for not doing enough to warn everybody it was happening, and then castigated for not doing enough to help those affected.

Its true, though it may be said in jest, but its because a lot of people need someone to blame - for everything, many can not understand that natural disasters are just that, natural, its easy to rant and rave afterwards in hindsight about early warning systems etc but in the end theres nothing we can really do about it, say they'd sent out a warning, sure many would have believed it, but many would not, the people on the remote islands would have no where to go so although it would have saved some, i don't think it would have made a major difference.

Graeme

GraemeSkinner · 2005-01-05 06:08:56

Well this mornings radio news had an arab news media as saying that a joint Japanese, US and a few other nations set off an atomic bomb that caused this catastrophy. This same radio news also warned of child trafficing, kidnapping and such fears.

Thats just soooo believeable, first of all I can never see the Japanese and US collaborating in a nuclear strike, what would they achieve? In deed what would anyone think they'd achieve by doing this. I've heard of the child traffic on Sky news this morning.

They also commented that not much news of the American efforts to aid in this disaster were being broadcast as another way that the media was clouding the reality of things. Then they topped this all off with the followup news on Bagdad assasination and car bombing as if to put more bad light on the US war.
Just Great how the news media can play both sides to distort the truth. :angry:

I just think its poor form to use a major disaster such as this for political gains, which is basically what that news report seems to be doing. I've seen nothing from all the countries that are offering/providing aid that shouts this is a publicity stunt they all look genuine to me.

Graeme

Palomar · 2005-01-05 10:24:30

Well this mornings radio news had an arab news media as saying that a joint Japanese, US and a few other nations set off an atomic bomb that caused this catastrophy.

*Riiiiiiiight. We'd do something like that, only to turn around and shell out $350 million to help alleviate what we caused. I'm surprised they'd even suggest other nations were also involved...We need help being "evil infidels" now? :laugh:

This same radio news also warned of child trafficing, kidnapping and such fears.

*Sure. That stuff is going on, I heard it on ABC News -- it's occurring IN Middle Eastern nations.

I just think its poor form to use a major disaster such as this for political gains, which is basically what that news report seems to be doing. I've seen nothing from all the countries that are offering/providing aid that shouts this is a publicity stunt they all look genuine to me.

*Taiwan -- tiny Taiwan -- is contributing $55 million to the tsunami relief efforts. Saudi Arabia is donating a measly $22 million. Need I say more?

I predict that America will first of all be blamed for the shift in the Earth's crust that caused the tsunami. Then, when it becomes impossible to make the accusation stick, she will be denigrated for not doing enough to warn everybody it was happening, and then castigated for not doing enough to help those affected.
It wouldn't make any difference if America donated $50 billion, of course; her detractors can never be satisfied.

*Sure, America has done some bad things in the past and has made serious mistakes...just like every other nation. But most everyone is on the bandwagon now. It's like high school: No matter what each individual's true thoughts of The Outcast is (hey, maybe that kid's not so bad; he/she does have some good qualities; I think my friends are being too unfair; etc.), it'd be totally uncool and "eeeeeewww!" to do anything but go along with the In Crowd, the Cool Clique -- otherwise you'll be shunned yourself. Quite a bit of the America bashing is beginning to sound seriously hysterical and incredibly petty. But hey, the pendulum swings doesn't it?

--Cindy

GraemeSkinner · 2005-01-05 10:31:28

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p … .stm]Found after eight days amazing!

Graeme

GraemeSkinner · 2005-01-05 10:34:16

I'm proud to say, the last time I heard, Aussies had privately raised $83 million in donations for the relief effort. That total is still rising and I think it may have stung the government, who were only promising about $65 million in aid, because there's now talk of Australia providing $500 million.
I certainly hope the rumour is true because we're a wealthy country and can afford to be generous in the face of all that suffering among our poorer neighbours.

Seen the following on BBC news

Australian Prime Minister John Howard has offered Indonesia $765m over five years to assist its recovery from the devastation of the Asian tsunami

Five years is good, means they are in for the long haul rather than looking for an impossible quick fix.

Graeme

Palomar · 2005-01-05 15:21:30

I'm proud to say, the last time I heard, Aussies had privately raised $83 million in donations for the relief effort. That total is still rising and I think it may have stung the government, who were only promising about $65 million in aid, because there's now talk of Australia providing $500 million.
I certainly hope the rumour is true because we're a wealthy country and can afford to be generous in the face of all that suffering among our poorer neighbours.
Seen the following on BBC news
Australian Prime Minister John Howard has offered Indonesia $765m over five years to assist its recovery from the devastation of the Asian tsunami
Five years is good, means they are in for the long haul rather than looking for an impossible quick fix.
Graeme

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u … 2101]Yahoo! article pertaining to same

*Um...how to word this? ??? I'm all for the tsunami victims receiving as much aid as they can possibly need. But geez...Australia is surrounded by water and not terribly distant from where the 9-magnitude quake initially occurred. What's going to happen if there's a recurrence closer to home -- say along the southeastern coast of Australia. Might want to keep a few dollars at least tucked away in the piggy bank for a rainy day. I should hope Aussies won't jeopardize their own financial (emergency) security....

There's the mention of strained relations with Muslim Indonesia and reference to Iraq. Mending fences is okay and all that, but again -- Mother Nature, as we know, can be very unpredictable.

-*-

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s … aid]Threat of Corruption: Stealing Aid

*We knew that was coming.

Bill O'Reilly questioned -- for many months after 9/11 -- where all those massive amounts of aid money went, especially from the celebrity drives to bring in donations (Tom Cruise hosted one low-key, star-studded TV event). And afterwards people wrote or called into O'Reilly, with proof they needed assistance and qualified, and yet those relief agencies were nearly impossible to contact.

I sure hope there is NOT an overall repeated scenario of this sort of thing in Asia.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-01-07 14:44:40

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s … i_rape]She wants to be a journalist

*Unfortunately, due to what happened to her and the social stigma of it (so unfair!), her name isn't made known.

Unimaginable. Hopefully someone will truly come to her rescue and she'll be able to realize her dreams. ::shakes head::

Kofi Annan is touring the area; he's apparently reeling from shock. Heard a news reporter an hour ago saying television can't even come remotely close to giving the viewer an idea of the true scale of the devastation. Not surprising.

And unfortunately the kidnapping and trafficking of children might be on the rise.

--Cindy

P.S.: I saw on a TV program last evening that the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln creates extra water from some internal process, which can generate something like 800 gallons of fresh, drinkable water per hour. I didn't jot down the facts, but anyway -- it's a conjoined group of spigots attached to the deck. Turn the handle and out comes fresh water. :up: They're constantly tapping that resource and flying the H20 via the 'copters to needy villagers, etc. Does anyone know how that process might work? ??? The reporter didn't go into detail (time constraints).

Shaun Barrett · 2005-01-07 20:05:34

A terribly sad tale about that poor young woman being raped by that excuse for a human-being. I'm not nearly as squeamish about the death penalty as many others here and I just found one more to add to my list - along with all child molesters everywhere. ( :bars2: ) I can tell you right now, if I'd seen that appalling disgrace happening and I'd had a rifle handy, that bast*** wouldn't be bothering anyone ever again.
And this shame on the female victim crap .. I'll never understand that BS! Instead of the relatives hiding the poor girl away, they should be out looking for the cur that attacked her. And they should maybe take a rope with them, too. :realllymad:

No, Cindy. I can't help you with the desalination thing on the Abraham Lincoln. If it's a nuclear-powered vessel, they probably have energy to spare for such things but I don't know much about it. I'm sure someone here will know.

The Australian people have breached the $100 million mark, and still rising - great stuff! And now our government has pledged $1 billion in total aid, to be spent over the next 5 years, for Indonesia alone. There will be other aid to other countries, too, I believe. But Indonesia caught the brunt of the disaster and Australia is her nearest neighbour.
Plus, we were among the first aid-workers to arrive at some of the devastated sites and the Aussie naval vessel, HMAS Kanimbla, with heavy-lift helicopters on board and laden with supplies, is on its way to help as we speak.
I am extremely pleased and proud of my country's efforts, even though it's no more than our neighbours have a right to expect from us at such a time.

Again, I draw attention to the American efforts also. As she has always done, these past hundred years, the United States has stepped up to the plate in fine style to help those in need. I'm very impressed that the Abraham Lincoln was so quickly on the scene. And what a magnificent job she's been doing, too!
I don't give a Good-God-Damn what the detractors and left-wing loonies have to say about America, you're not just a Superpower .. you're a super Power! Your politicians often let you down badly (we all have that lousy problem, in any democracy) but you're a big country with big-hearted people and I'm more than happy to call you all 'cousins'.

[Cindy, you raised fears about future tsunamis affecting the east coast of Australia and that maybe we should keep some cash in the kitty to save our own a**es in case of such an eventuality.
The most likely cause of a major tsunami in the Pacific is a submarine landslide in the Hawaiian Islands. Apparently there's evidence that a previous slide caused a mega-tsunami which produced a wave 500 metres high on one of those islands!
By the time such a wave reached Australia, it would still reach a height of some 50 metres at the shoreline, destroying most of the infrastructure on our eastern seaboard. If that happened, a billion dollars one way or the other wouldn't save Australia from an economic meltdown of apocalyptic proportions. Especially since a similar wave would simultaneously take out most of America's western seaboard - pulverising cities like San Diego, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.
We'll just have to cross that bridge when we come to it.]

Cobra Commander · 2005-01-07 22:03:33

A terribly sad tale about that poor young woman being raped by that excuse for a human-being. I'm not nearly as squeamish about the death penalty as many others here and I just found one more to add to my list - along with all child molesters everywhere.

I have to admit, it's shit like this that sometimes makes me think we could do more good invading and imposing order after natural disasters than just pouring in aid. Perhaps the knowledge of similar events followed by scumbags impaled vertically on sharpened stakes would have some impact on this sort of subhuman behavior.

I know it's a totally unworkable idea sprung from gut-level rage, but really, I'd have no problem with some aid workers over there taking it upon themselves to investigate these cases and mete out punishment, whatever local custom finds acceptable. A box of MRE's for the locals in one hand and an untraceable small-caliber handgun in the other. A few "happy accidents" along the way.

And no, I'm not going to argue this as a policy proposal, it just pisses me off that there are such people out there.

The Australian people have breached the $100 million mark, and still rising - great stuff! And now our government has pledged $1 billion in total aid, to be spent over the next 5 years, for Indonesia alone. There will be other aid to other countries, too, I believe.

Good to hear.

But now that the numbers have gotten so large, I'm concerned about how much of the aid will actually go to help those that need it and how much will end up lining the pockets of corrupt officials as so often happens in these matters that bring out both the best and the worst in people.

I don't give a Good-God-Damn what the detractors and left-wing loonies have to say about America, you're not just a Superpower .. you're a super Power! Your politicians often let you down badly (we all have that lousy problem, in any democracy) but you're a big country with big-hearted people and I'm more than happy to call you all 'cousins'.

Feels good. We screw up sometimes, but we try. We're glad to once again stand beside our Australian cousins.

Grypd · 2005-01-08 08:31:40

P.S.: I saw on a TV program last evening that the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln creates extra water from some internal process, which can generate something like 800 gallons of fresh, drinkable water per hour. I didn't jot down the facts, but anyway -- it's a conjoined group of spigots attached to the deck. Turn the handle and out comes fresh water. :up: They're constantly tapping that resource and flying the H20 via the 'copters to needy villagers, etc. Does anyone know how that process might work? ??? The reporter didn't go into detail (time constraints).

Hi Cindy
The USS Abraham Lincoln is a Nimitz class aircraft carrier it creates drinkable water by distilling the sea water. Its power is supplied by the Nuclear reactor aboard.

The Nimitz class actually can distill about 500,00 litres of water a day but it needs a lot to supply to the large crew aboard.

actually if anyone remembers the Sea Dragon thread we had it was planned to use a Nuclear aircraft carrier to crack the sea water to provide the Hydrogen and oxygen to fill the Sea Dragons tanks.

But more importantly is that a lot of aid is going to these areas I only hope that a reasonable amount of law and order can be imposed as these places where simply in rebellion before the Tsunami.

Palomar · 2005-01-08 13:38:27

P.S.: I saw on a TV program last evening that the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln creates extra water from some internal process, which can generate something like 800 gallons of fresh, drinkable water per hour. I didn't jot down the facts, but anyway -- it's a conjoined group of spigots attached to the deck. Turn the handle and out comes fresh water. :up: They're constantly tapping that resource and flying the H20 via the 'copters to needy villagers, etc. Does anyone know how that process might work? ??? The reporter didn't go into detail (time constraints).
Hi Cindy
The USS Abraham Lincoln is a Nimitz class aircraft carrier it creates drinkable water by distilling the sea water. Its power is supplied by the Nuclear reactor aboard.
The Nimitz class actually can distill about 500,00 litres of water a day but it needs a lot to supply to the large crew aboard.
actually if anyone remembers the Sea Dragon thread...

*Okay, thanks Grypd. I really know very little about warships and the like (not that I'm generally greatly interested in them either...).

(Sea Dragon thread? :hm: I'll Search for it...doesn't ring a bell).

Thanks again.

--Cindy

RobS · 2005-01-08 17:46:38

"Distilling" no doubt means desalinating. A half million liters per day would be 130,000 gallons per day. If there are 5,000 crew on board and they need 40 gallons per day, that's 120,000 gallons. A typical house uses about that per day per person (showers, washing clothes, cooking, etc.).

-- RobS

LtlPhysics · 2005-01-08 20:27:20

Could it be only a matter of time before an Islamic Holy Warrior decides to take out one of the Infidel's helicopters?

Grypd · 2005-01-09 10:41:37

Could it be only a matter of time before an Islamic Holy Warrior decides to take out one of the Infidel's helicopters?

Lol the Indians already had this problem. They had been worried that some of the indigenous peoples who live on the islands in the Indian ocean could have been wiped out and as these peoples are still in the stone age they took a helicopter to look.

What they got was a lot of flint tipped arrows and spears coming there way.

Incidentally it should be noted that the Indian goverment will not give aid or allow it to these peoples. If the goverment or aid agencies was to aid them it would likely destroy there cultures so in fact wiping out what was left. Nasty situation to be in but there is no other choice.

SpaceNut · 2005-01-10 12:00:34

But there is no reason not to leave things that would not change there life style. ex.. open pit filled with fresh water and fish.

Telemedicine and distance learning after the tsunami

In the immediate aftermath of the December 26 earthquake and tsunami, relief workers and local governments were able to use satellite communications to coordinate their emergency responses. Months from now, experts will have to evaluate how well these networks performed and evaluate where there is need for improvement. Already, the need for a new tsunami warning network is widely accepted. Such a network will require a large scale and robust satellite communications system. The debate over what the architecture of such a system will be promises to be fascinating.

When we talk of comunications to far off places and how to resupply those that are there it presents one of the means to better understand what we will go though as we venture off into space hopefully to stay.

Much like the early warning system for tsunami waves there is a need for the developement of near earth asteriod and other objects that would cross the path of the would be explorers. But that is all for another thread.

Palomar · 2005-01-11 07:46:51

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005 … ke.htm]How the Earthquake affected Earth

*Hmmmmm...

January 10, 2005: NASA scientists studying the Indonesian earthquake of Dec. 26, 2004, have calculated that it slightly changed our planet's shape, shaved almost 3 microseconds from the length of the day, and shifted the North Pole by centimeters.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-01-11 08:55:32

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005 … ke.htm]How the Earthquake affected Earth
*Hmmmmm...
January 10, 2005: NASA scientists studying the Indonesian earthquake of Dec. 26, 2004, have calculated that it slightly changed our planet's shape, shaved almost 3 microseconds from the length of the day, and shifted the North Pole by centimeters.
--Cindy

*My god...

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/tectonics-05g.html]Earth is STILL ringing like a bell

even 2 weeks after! They say this could continue for a couple of more weeks.

Geez.

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2005-01-12 08:03:02

More data just keeps rolling in from the orbiting satelites that were in position.
NASA/French Space Agency, Jason and Topex/Poseidon oceanography satellites Data Reveal New Details of Tsunami

Then you get the fear mongering articles Asteroid Could Cause Tsunami, Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) Scientist Says

"Every 10,000 years or so, we should get a tsunami from an asteroid, and we haven't had one in about that amount of time," Galen Gisler said. "It's a hard thing to calculate, because we don't know how many asteroids are out there, but some international groups are starting to do surveys to quantify that."
A half-mile-wide asteroid hitting the Atlantic near Florida could cause a 10-foot tsunami that could kill thousands and leave massive destruction.

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#51 2005-01-03 23:37:44

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#52 2005-01-04 00:35:23

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#53 2005-01-04 06:15:58

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#54 2005-01-04 06:36:18

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#55 2005-01-04 15:31:24

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#56 2005-01-04 17:49:30

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#57 2005-01-05 05:56:47

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#58 2005-01-05 06:04:22

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#59 2005-01-05 06:08:56

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#60 2005-01-05 10:24:30

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#61 2005-01-05 10:31:28

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#62 2005-01-05 10:34:16

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#63 2005-01-05 15:21:30

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#64 2005-01-07 14:44:40

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#65 2005-01-07 20:05:34

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#66 2005-01-07 22:03:33

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#67 2005-01-08 08:31:40

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#68 2005-01-08 13:38:27

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#69 2005-01-08 17:46:38

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#70 2005-01-08 20:27:20

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#71 2005-01-09 10:41:37

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#72 2005-01-10 12:00:34

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#73 2005-01-11 07:46:51

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#74 2005-01-11 08:55:32

Re: Tsunami in Asia

#75 2005-01-12 08:03:02

Re: Tsunami in Asia

Board footer