Kenneth Bigley beheaded...

Shaun Barrett · 2004-10-09 19:51:16

And another thing ... !
I've noticed Josh putting inverted commas around the word "insurgents" and Stu has gone to some lengths to point out the kinds of words used by Western journalists to describe Islamic extremists.
I would like to add my two cents worth here as well.

The ABC and SBS T.V. networks here in Australia have taken to calling the terrorists anything but terrorists and murderers, which I agree with Stu is what they really are. We now get the softer euphemisms like 'insurgents', 'rebels', hostage takers', 'fighters', 'militants', etc.
These terms carry with them the implicit and almost subliminal message that somehow the terrorists have some kind of legitimate cause for which they're fighting. They haven't, of course, but we Australians are being fed a monotonous diet of subtle misinformation to that effect (I don't know if it goes on to the same extent in other countries).
But why? I can't fathom what SBS or the ABC is hoping to achieve by backing the wrong side. Even assuming you hate America or American foreign policy, even assuming you disapproved of the Iraq war, even if you have a dozen alternative histories you might have preferred to see happen, where is the percentage now in undermining the Coalition forces? Could it possibly be that the people running these two Australian T.V. networks actually wish for the liberation of Iraq to fail, for the forces of militant Islamic extremists to succeed in derailing the process of democratisation? Can they possibly be so determined to damage Western liberal democracy that they would aid and abet the cause of Islamofascism to achieve that goal?
Hmmm. In this case, I have to say that even I DonGetIt!
:bars:

MarsDog · 2004-10-09 20:21:26

For better or worse, might is right, and every once in a while US stirs up a nest of killer bees. Bee stings are bad for the global economy, and the killer bees have to be neutralized.

Palomar · 2004-10-09 20:32:50

To borrow a little from CC's post, DonPanic you DonGetIt!

:laugh:

I know...let's round up some Bluegrass Music CDs and send them to DonPanic. He LOVES Bluegrass music (dontcha, DonPanic!) -- I remember him speaking VERY fondly of it.

Yep, Bluegrass music with pro-Bush themes. That's the key to convincing DonPanic. :laugh:

Hours and hours of pure listening enjoyment -- Bluegrass! I have a couple of CDs...what's your street address, DonPanic? I'll send them via fastest airmail!

--Cindy :;):

::edit::

Shaun: Some of you here probably know of John Howard, the Australian Prime Minister who sent Aussie troops out to Afghanistan and Iraq on the first available boats, to fight alongside British and American soldiers.
Well, let me tell you, that man has been harried, pilloried, vilified, and had pins stuck into little effigies that look just like him(! ), by the Australian media, ever since the Iraq invasion. Fortunately, the media attacks have been seen by the Australian people for the shameless political exercise that they were.
John Howard was re-elected Prime Minister last night, with a substantially increased majority, and may well gain control of the Senate too.

*Yes, I read an article on Yahoo! news. I was taken completely by surprise. Wouldn't it be something if Blair is voted in again as Brit PM -- Howard and Blair maintaining their offices -- and yet Bush gets drummed out. Can't wait for November 2! It's going to be one hell of a ride.

Grypd · 2004-10-10 12:55:28

And another thing ... !
I've noticed Josh putting inverted commas around the word "insurgents" and Stu has gone to some lengths to point out the kinds of words used by Western journalists to describe Islamic extremists.
I would like to add my two cents worth here as well.

The papers and press can only go with what the political leadership calls them and Donald Rumsfield calls them "insurgents"

The only way to treat them with the contempt they deserve is to call them what they truly are terrorists not insurgents not rebels terrorists. Cindy if Blair is chucked out and the main reason is the Iraq crisis it wont be that British citizens are being kidnapped and murdered or our soldiers killed it will be that the British public are put off about the spin that occured in the lead up to the war. But we are in Iraq now and we have to stay the course and win this thing. If we succeed we will have a free democratic country surrounded by countries that are the complete opposite and this will give the people of those countries hope and a way to go.

clark · 2004-10-10 15:39:14

nothing like a good ol fashioned snuff flim to bring out the emotion, eh?

You feel bothered? Watching a man plead for his life, bruttaly ended by people who display no emotion for the act? Amazing to think that technology allows deeds to be beamed into the comfort of your living room while you drink your tea or prepare your evening meal. It dosen't feel so safe now, does it? It dosen't feel right that your comfort is invaded in such a manner?

Feel however you want, but the reactions displayed show the desired effect. Anger, calls for vengence, the heart turning to stone- no longer trying to see the individuals within this situation, but just a blanket view of the world.

These thugs, a few of them, use television to magnify their power and to reach a wider audience to increase their influence. Doing something like this in the dark with no witnesses defeats the purpose. Trying to effect a change to win people to their cause is not achieved by these acts- they know it. It is designed to terrify us. It is designed to enrage us. It is designed to draw us in deeper.

You think it's going to get any better? You think it's going to be safe for innocent people in a war zone? Innocent people get killed by both sides- one is clinically impersonal, the other emotionaly personal. People die, people hold grudges, and it keeps going.

Watch what happens with Iran. We bomb em, Isreal bombs them, and three Iranian divisions will wreak havoc in Iraq. That's where we are right now. That's the strategic screw up. It's going to get a lot worse. No amount of hate or blame will solve it.

We didn't need to go into Iraq because there was no imminent threat. We could have waited longer and continued with the sanctions while we hunted down the terroists in Afghanistan. The people who are dying in Iraq shouldn't be. Saddam may have had desires for WMD's, but he didn't have the capability- we had time. Bush misled us and now things are truly FUBAR'd. You can thank your Prime Minister for going along. You can thank Blair for being a patsy.

Now we have to stay a course we shouldn't have tread, paying a price without end, in the blood of people like Bigley and Armstrong. The terroists were not in Iraq until we went there. Bush used the 9/11 atmosphere as a pretext for action that wasn't neccessary at the time.

But then, I doubt few get it.

BWhite · 2004-10-10 18:56:58

I agree with clark.

These videos are released to manipulate us. 9/11 was perpetrated to manipulate us.

Rage blinds our reason and we write checks we cannot cash and seek to capture bridges that are beyond our abilities.

= = =

When JDAMs go astray and kill children and grandparents "by mistake" and we justify it as collateral damage the hatred becomes mutual and there will be no end unless we kill them all.

But we cannot kill them all because we need their oil.

Palomar · 2004-10-10 20:06:31

When JDAMs go astray and kill children and grandparents "by mistake" and we justify it as collateral damage

*Sorry, Bill, I think you're being unfair. We go out of our way to -avoid- as many civilian deaths as possible. In fact, we're -so- careful about it that I'm amazed we even manage to put down a few bad guys. Of course I'm NOT glad when innocents get killed...-anywhere-. Keep in mind the bad guys over there don't give a damn how many innocents (there or elsewhere) THEY kill. They have no moral or ethical qualms whatsoever. Can we afford to guilt induce and check ourselves to the point of sheer and total inactivity?

But we cannot kill them all

*Who in the government has said we want to kill them all? Is that our aim and purpose? Based on how careful we are to *avoid* civilian casualties, my best guess is NO.

because we need their oil.

*And they need our $.

Why do we persist in having this particular conversation anyway? It's far too late to turn back now. As Grypd so eloquently put it: "But we are in Iraq now and we have to stay the course and win this thing." And no, I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel...

--Cindy

P.S.:

I agree with clark.
These videos are released to manipulate us.

*Well of course it's manipulation. I'm sure most people here are already well aware of that.

Josh Cryer · 2004-10-11 01:10:15

Yeah, I do say we drop this thread, I just wanted to add one more thing though. Apparently MI6 had attempted to rescue Bigley.

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.as … ...D=27205

A British hostage killed in Iraq, Kenneth Bigley, escaped briefly by car after two of his captors were bribed with the help of British intelligence services, a newspaper reported here yesterday.

The 62-year-old civilian engineer, disguised in an Arab robe and headdress, was helped to flee by two of the kidnappers who accepted a large sum of money from a Syrian and an Iraqi who had penetrated the group on behalf of MI6, the Sunday Times said, citing a Saudi spokesman for the hostage-takers named as Abu Ahmad Al Saudi.

---

It is likely that Ken Bigley was not beheaded alive, however. But I won't say how I know that.

Shaun Barrett · 2004-10-11 01:47:56

Thank you, Cindy.
Great post! We can't sit around analysing 'ifs buts and maybes' any longer.
:bars:

Josh Cryer · 2004-10-11 05:44:12

I just decided to close this now... sorry if anyone had anything to add, let's just let it go. May the familes of Kenneth Bigley, Jack Hensley, and Eugene Armstrong see justice for the brutal way in which their loved ones died. Hopefully no more will have to die. Hopefully these bastards will be bombed to #### and back.

Hopefully.

If you pray, pray for these familes. If you don't. Wish them well anyway.

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