Anyone see Larry King Live last night?

Palomar · 2004-09-30 09:52:33

*He had on a panel of religious authorities: Southern Baptist minister, Roman Catholic priest, Islamic (...don't know the appropriate title...) and a Jewish rabbi. Oh, and Deepak Chopra. I didn't watch the program in its entirety, but did see good portions of it.

The program was entitled "Anger, God, War..." along those lines -- current events of course, the history of warfare in human socities, etc.

The Southern Baptist minister of course believes only betterment can come about via salvation through Jesus Christ (I'm not sure he mentioned End Times scenarios...).

The Catholic priest encouraged people to drop the "we/they" business.

The Rabbi said there IS "we and they," and said some people and groups -are- evil. He also praised American Christianity as being the protector and nurturer of the greatest levels of human freedom the world has ever known.

The Islamic leader extolled the virtues of being good and beneficient to one another (similar to the Catholic priest).

Deepak Chopra surprised me the most though...at the very end! The one "secular" presence in the group (he was interviewed via satellite link) who seemed to consistently reiterate that it is up to us (not any external spiritual entities) to make a better world, choose good and beneficient actions and behaviors over destructive and selfish behaviors...that mankind is due for consciousness expansion, betterment, putting away old warrior behaviors, etc. I was glad for his input...and then he ruined it (in my opinion) at the very end, by suddenly asserting that if humans ceased to exist tomorrow we -- mere specks of dust -- wouldn't be missed at all in this vast universe. That might be true...but it sends the wrong message. Most people want a goal to work towards. "It doesn't matter anyway" isn't a goal. And I don't believe life -- or any lifeform on this planet -- is unworthwhile or should be dismissed out of hand like that. It's akin to gathering a group of volunteers to accomplish something...and then telling them it (the objective) doesn't matter anyway. :-\ So what's the point again?

Of course the religionists in the group pounced on that, saying loudly that this is why secularism is bad -- because it demotes humans to the level of dust (thereby rendering us unimportant), etc.

It was an interesting exchange.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2004-09-30 10:33:44

Didn't see it, but it sounds like it was an interesting exchange.

Come to think of it, the last time I watched Larry King he had Ronald Reagan on and most Americans had never heard of Saddam Hussein.

The Southern Baptist minister of course believes only betterment can come about via salvation through Jesus Christ (I'm not sure he mentioned End Times scenarios...).

Which raises a host of questions in itself.

The Catholic priest encouraged people to drop the "we/they" business.

From the people that brought you the Crusades and the Inquisition. :laugh:

The Rabbi said there IS "we and they," and said some people and groups -are- evil. He also praised American Christianity as being the protector and nurturer of the greatest levels of human freedom the world has ever known.

Only fair, seeing as how we've pulled their butts out of the fire a few times.

Of course the religionists in the group pounced on that, saying loudly that this is why secularism is bad -- because it demotes humans to the level of dust (thereby rendering us unimportant), etc.

Yet if we proclaim our greatness and primacy in the universe we hear rumblings of "blasphemer." Can't win, I guess.

BWhite · 2004-09-30 11:04:56

The Catholic priest encouraged people to drop the "we/they" business.

Naturally enough. . .

The Rabbi said there IS "we and they," and said some people and groups -are- evil. He also praised American Christianity as being the protector and nurturer of the greatest levels of human freedom the world has ever known.

Are some people pre-destined to be "evil" or can anyone seek forgiveness?

Palomar · 2004-09-30 11:20:52

Are some people pre-destined to be "evil" or can anyone seek forgiveness?

*Well, I presume you're predicating that as in "forgiveness by God."

As for whether some people are born (whoops...you said "predestined"...as in a church dogma?) evil, I think of Jeffrey Dahmer. I'd like to believe he wasn't born evil. However, even after incarceration and claiming to become a born-again Christian (including baptism), he still acknowledged strong impulses to commit more gruesome crimes.

I think some people are destructive killing machines (psycho/sociopaths) by nature. Not sure how much control they could get over it, but I think there are a few at least in whom that nature completely possesses them and they could likely never -not- be that way. :-\

--Cindy

BWhite · 2004-09-30 11:54:35

Are some people pre-destined to be "evil" or can anyone seek forgiveness?
*Well, I presume you're predicating that as in "forgiveness by God."
As for whether some people are born (whoops...you said "predestined"...as in a church dogma?) evil, I think of Jeffrey Dahmer. I'd like to believe he wasn't born evil. However, even after incarceration and claiming to become a born-again Christian (including baptism), he still acknowledged strong impulses to commit more gruesome crimes.
I think some people are destructive killing machines (psycho/sociopaths) by nature. Not sure how much control they could get over it, but I think there are a few at least in whom that nature completely possesses them and they could likely never -not- be that way. :-\
--Cindy

Okay, are some "groups of people" necessarily evil?

In other words, would God condone an "us vs them" mentality?

= = =

Can Satan be redeemed? is a theological variation.

Can God make a rock too big for him to pick up? :;):

BWhite · 2004-09-30 11:56:37

The Catholic priest encouraged people to drop the "we/they" business.
From the people that brought you the Crusades and the Inquisition. :laugh:

Bah!

Several Popes have already apologized for that.

Palomar · 2004-09-30 12:10:58

Okay, are some "groups of people" necessarily evil?

*People can act evilly -in- groups (often do -- Nazism, emboldened by numbers, peer pressure). But to answer your question: With the exception of people forming a group for purposes of carrying out evil acts, I don't believe any group of humans brought together via random chance (such as generational tribal units) are necessarily evil.

In other words, would God condone an "us vs them" mentality?

*Supposedly God created Heaven and Hell...so yes, apparently.

Can Satan be redeemed? is a theological variation.

*According to theologies I'm familiar with/have been exposed to, that dude is damned regardless. There is a doctrine in evangelical Christianity called "the unpardonable sin." Humans can commit it and once you do...you're beyond redemption, period.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2004-09-30 12:17:13

Bah!
Several Popes have already apologized for that.

I meant that comment mainly in jest, yet I must also add, and I mean no offense with this, it is part of the Church's history and can't be brushed aside any more than neo-Nazis can dismiss the genocide of European Jews as a "mistake" from the past.

Every faith, nation and creed has its skeletons, some just have bigger piles.

Euler · 2004-09-30 13:45:08

Can God make a rock too big for him to pick up?

Yes, but he would have to give up some of his power to do so.

Ian Flint · 2004-09-30 14:23:01

Getting back to the original post...

It seems Deepak Chopra, got it all right. Even the part about the dust agrees with the Jewish and Christian scriptures. But hey, he's just an Indian, so God probably cursed him from before birth. Don't listen to the seductive enticings of the evil Brown Man!

BWhite · 2004-09-30 14:24:12

Okay, are some "groups of people" necessarily evil?
*People can act evilly -in- groups (often do -- Nazism, emboldened by numbers, peer pressure). But to answer your question: With the exception of people forming a group for purposes of carrying out evil acts, I don't believe any group of humans brought together via random chance (such as generational tribal units) are necessarily evil.
In other words, would God condone an "us vs them" mentality?
*Supposedly God created Heaven and Hell...so yes, apparently.
Can Satan be redeemed? is a theological variation.
*According to theologies I'm familiar with/have been exposed to, that dude is damned regardless. There is a doctrine in evangelical Christianity called "the unpardonable sin." Humans can commit it and once you do...you're beyond redemption, period.
--Cindy

I once read an interesting quip:

Any serious theologian who denies at least the possibility of universal salvation is a fool; any serious theologian who teaches the doctrine of universal salvation is an ass.

dicktice · 2004-10-01 08:14:07

I have yet to read anything in what all you adherants of the various so-called faiths have written in the above about the literal meaning of "evil." Couldn't you at least agree on a definition, in common, for the term before continuing to rant on the subject of religion in these forums—either that, or better yet why not give it a rest?s

smurf975 · 2004-10-01 09:02:36

The Rabbi said there IS "we and they," and said some people and groups -are- evil. He also praised American Christianity as being the protector and nurturer of the greatest levels of human freedom the world has ever known.
Only fair, seeing as how we've pulled their butts out of the fire a few times.

When did Christianity do this?

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