Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

Gennaro · 2003-07-17 13:22:19

This might have been discussed at length before and I might even have read something about it that I have forgotten, but I'll accept the risk and throw the question out all the same.

As far as I know Martian gravity is a third that of Earth. In "zero" gravity prolonged stay results in chronically reduced bone mass apart from other negative health effects.

What's the prospect then of staying for a few years, or even a lifetime on Mars? What will happen to your body? Could there be problems related to pregnancy and procreation for instance? What do you think?

dickbill · 2003-07-17 13:45:28

well yes, that has been discussed elsewhere but it is interesting topic.

Regarding pregnancy:

In human, we don't know and we cannot extrapolate from lower vertebrates because of our embarassing big brain. But I guess we could extrapolate from primates females gesting and delivering at zero g. BTW, the translife experiment is (will be actually) conducted with mice, gestation period: 21 days...will see what happen.

Lower vertebrates: amphibians at zero g have been hatched, and they seem normal with few if any abnormalities reported. If everything is fine at zero g, it is safe to assume it would be safe at 0.38g, so frogs (not the french, the real frogs) can safely reproduce on Mars meaning that future martians can set up a frog colony for their food, prepared a la francaise, hmmm yummy, yummy.

Other vertebrates: chicken hatch at zero g (well, microgravity). I posted a linked somewhere but in short, while most embryo are OK, there are more abnormalities reported (size and neural tube defects). So you see with evolutive complexity increasing, human could be at risk. But that was at zero g, maybe at 0.38g all eggs would hatch normal embryos. I wonder if translife expects to use chicken eggs in addition to mice.

Gennaro · 2003-07-17 14:01:21

Hm, very interesting.

So, these kinds of experiments are carried out right now on the ISS and whatever we say, we can only safely say that we don't really know enough about it yet?

Of course the real frogs get eaten by the French frogs, so considering the fact that only the original frogs are such excessively primitive little quakers, it maybe doesn't help us much, no matter what field day they'll have, hoping around in point thirtyeight gee.

Tricky.

Morris · 2004-08-08 18:14:03

Bringing up a topic which started in another thread but seems more appropriate for this one, how will our biological clocks change, either during the long trip en route on on Mars itself?

Morris · 2004-08-08 18:37:26

The link for the NASA studies on biological factors affecting long-duration space flight can be found at [http://]criticalpath.jsc.nasa.gov/beta/User/risk.jsp?showData=30. [/http://] Extremely interesting site.

Rxke · 2004-08-08 23:13:52

The "Low gravity, a showstopper?" topic is all about this subject.

http://www.betterhumans.com/]Better Humans sometimes has stuff related to longetivety treatments and other stuff to make us... 'better' than we are now.

And our clocks are mainly affected by the day/night cycle, so lighting is crucial I guess this is mainly a non-issue. (despite Ant's far out ideas, heh.)

mboeller · 2004-08-09 02:55:03

I read lately in the BIS-Spaceflight that even the gravity on Mars (0.38g) is not enough to sustain the bone mass or muscle's of people. At the moment they assume that 0.4g is the absolute minimum requirement for longtime health. I found this rather disturbing, so I hope they are wrong.

Morris · 2004-08-09 09:42:13

The "Low gravity, a showstopper?" topic is all about this subject.
http://www.betterhumans.com/]Better Humans sometimes has stuff related to longetivety treatments and other stuff to make us... 'better' than we are now.

Thanks for the info.

And our clocks are mainly affected by the day/night cycle, so lighting is crucial I guess this is mainly a non-issue. (despite Ant's far out ideas, heh.)

Not quite a non-issue, but one we know how to handle. The NASA information on this indicates that sleep disturbances resulting from circadian rhythm disturbances can "severely diminish cognitive performance capacity" to the point that it "may jeopardize astronaut performance" and "posing risks to individual astronaut [?] mission success", that such sleep disturbances are quite common (the most common use of medication among astronauts is to combat sleep disturbance), but that such problems are relatively easy to deal with by "bright light entrainment pre-flight", "individual active noise cancellation at sleep", and appropriate scheduling. When these don't work, medication is available. The overall risk status is "green".

The [?] above is due to the fact that the page printout is truncated on the right. <Teeth grind, pet peeve>

But, back to reality, the more I think about Ant's assertion the more I think that it would be very interesting to see whether aging is speeded up or slowed down in microgravity. I would think that an experiment on this with very simple organisms would be something that a high school class could work with NASA to arrange.

Morris · 2004-08-09 09:52:22

I read lately in the BIS-Spaceflight that even the gravity on Mars (0.38g) is not enough to sustain the bone mass or muscle's of people. At the moment they assume that 0.4g is the absolute minimum requirement for longtime health. I found this rather disturbing, so I hope they are wrong.

Yes, I hope so too but am afraid they are right. The most interesting thing would be to explore the basis for their assumption that .4g is the minimum for long-term health. If Mars is that close, it may be within the margin of error and/or biological adjustments (e.g. medication) may be possible.

Rxke · 2004-08-09 11:06:50

But where do the BIS people get their opinion from? AFAIK there has been no long-term experiments at .38g...

Or do the British have a secret Mars-base?

IMHO, as long as you'd do regular semi-intensive excercises when young (read: when still growing..), to build up your calcium-reserve, and overall fitness... and relatively normal excercises when older, I think you'd be better off than on Earth!
Less weight, less wearing out of joints, less work for your heart (ideal when you get older?) An active life would be the key, I guess, no slouching off, if you wanna live long!

Morris, about the longetivity stuff: http://www.methuselahmouse.org/]Methuselahmouse was what I was looking for, a contest to raise the longest-living (healthy!) mouse. Current record is already quite stunning: "The first prize was awarded in June 2003 to Andrezj Bartke, whose genetic research produced a healthy mouse that lived nearly 5 years, or 180-200 years in human terms."
And mouse= ideal errr... labrat (yeha, right...) to get more insight into the aeging process.

Morris · 2004-08-09 13:32:52

http://www.methuselahmouse.org/]Methuselahmouse was what I was looking for, a contest to raise the longest-living (healthy!) mouse. Current record is already quite stunning: "The first prize was awarded in June 2003 to Andrezj Bartke, whose genetic research produced a healthy mouse that lived nearly 5 years, or 180-200 years in human terms."
And mouse= ideal errr... labrat (yeha, right...) to get more insight into the aeging process.

Yes, very impressive. And I was interested to see that Ray Kurzweil supports the prize.

dicktice · 2004-08-09 13:55:31

I'm going out on a limb, and state catagorically--unless proven wrong experimentally--that life lived on Mars will be longer in real time than on Earth, and on Moon even longer, due to less work, wear and tear on the heart muscle.
Regarding body clock resetting, melatonen suffices for me whenever I skip a night's sleep, emailing. Works a treat.

Morris · 2004-08-09 18:35:44

Regarding body clock resetting, melatonen suffices for me whenever I skip a night's sleep, emailing. Works a treat.

Yes, I have had others tell me that as well. But I have also heard that lab studies have not borne this out. If it is experimentally sound I wonder why the astronauts are treated with hypnotics instead of melatonin?

SpaceNut · 2004-08-19 11:02:04

It is rocket science
Resident helps NASA solve space travel troubles

http://www.zwire.com/site....1&rfi=9

The SCSU students are participating in research to help NASA minimize the negative effects of prolonged weightlessness on human bones.
NASA's land-based and space studies already show that bone loss varies greatly from astronaut to astronaut. Some experience little-to-no loss, while others experience significant bone loss

dicktice · 2004-08-19 13:33:27

Morris: Try it youself. Makes your dreams more interesting too, another sign that your brain is rearranging your previous waking experience memories more thoroughly than before. Any comment?

Commodore · 2004-08-19 20:35:35

I'm going out on a limb, and state catagorically--unless proven wrong experimentally--that life lived on Mars will be longer in real time than on Earth, and on Moon even longer, due to less work, wear and tear on the heart muscle.

I'll bet any such benifits would be offset by the radiation exposure.

dicktice · 2004-08-21 11:57:27

I'm going out on a limb, and state catagorically--unless proven wrong experimentally--that life lived on Mars will be longer in real time than on Earth, and on Moon even longer, due to less work, wear and tear on the heart muscle.
I'll bet any such benifits would be offset by the radiation exposure.

Not underground . . . come on, that shouldn't keep us from at least testing the hypothesis.

RobS · 2004-08-22 23:42:19

Actually, I have the opposite worry; lower gravity will weaken the heart and increase cardiovascular disease. The heart needs exercise to work efficiently. Consider that in the 1960s there was a study of postal workers and it found that the workers who walked around and delivered the mail had lower heart attack rates than the ones sitting behind a desk. Sitting behind a desk is a rough simulation of lower gravity.

-- RobS

SpaceNut · 2004-08-23 09:26:31

A space traveller’s dream of one day holidaying on Mars might sound appealing, but it would be a one-way-trip.

Not only would it take years to reach the Red Planet but our bones, muscles and joints would crumble under gravity on return to Earth.

Mars holiday, a pricey bonecruncher
http://www.uq.edu.au/news/index.phtml?article=5831

Rather than coming directly to Earth maybe use the Iss as a kind of decompression station like for the bends in divers. Allowing for close doctor like care while re-abiliting the Astronauts that would go to Mars in the far off future.

C M Edwards · 2004-08-23 13:09:33

Sitting behind a desk is a rough simulation of lower gravity.

Does that mean my dreams of space travel have already been partially fulfilled?

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#1 2003-07-17 13:22:19

Re: Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

#2 2003-07-17 13:45:28

Re: Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

#3 2003-07-17 14:01:21

Re: Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

#4 2004-08-08 18:14:03

Re: Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

#5 2004-08-08 18:37:26

Re: Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

#6 2004-08-08 23:13:52

Re: Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

#7 2004-08-09 02:55:03

Re: Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

#8 2004-08-09 09:42:13

Re: Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

#9 2004-08-09 09:52:22

Re: Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

#10 2004-08-09 11:06:50

Re: Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

#11 2004-08-09 13:32:52

Re: Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

#12 2004-08-09 13:55:31

Re: Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

#13 2004-08-09 18:35:44

Re: Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

#14 2004-08-19 11:02:04

Re: Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

#15 2004-08-19 13:33:27

Re: Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

#16 2004-08-19 20:35:35

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#17 2004-08-21 11:57:27

Re: Long Term Health Effects - Life on a low grav, rusty planet

#18 2004-08-22 23:42:19

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#19 2004-08-23 09:26:31

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#20 2004-08-23 13:09:33

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