9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

Cobra Commander · 2004-07-23 08:03:15

I just started going over the document this morning, already a long collection of incompentence and blundering. Though they avoid mentioning that some of the policies themselves are ill-conceived...

:hm:

More to follow, no doubt.

Palomar · 2004-07-23 08:20:49

*No. Is it available for reading online somewhere? I suppose I could Google for it. But then I get enough eye strain on the computer. Hard copies available where?

Just curious. Not sure I'll read much of it. I have my blood pressure to consider. :-\ I'm already steamed enough about the war situation and etc.

Gov't bungling -- yes, old story as we all know. Heard a few evenings ago about reservists not getting their pay; big-time screwup in the check posting system. People ducking bullets deserve to get their pay on time, full amount, etc.! No hassles or excuses. It's deplorable and outrageous that reservists serving their country are having to resort to clinging to every penny because of morons running the payrolls.

Sorry -- didn't mean to get off topic.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2004-07-23 08:32:12

*No. Is it available for reading online somewhere? I suppose I could Google for it. But then I get enough eye strain on the computer. Hard copies available where?

It was up on Yahoo last night, but they seem to have pulled it from the banner. But:

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/crep … s/911.html

All 585 pages of it. Chock full of SNAFUs, FUBARs and things that make the blood boil. But so far no "Bush's fault" support.

:bars2:

Rxke · 2004-07-23 09:31:20

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3917489.stm]BBC
has their 'panel' giving comments on the report. If you feel inclined, you can pipe in yourself.

(The panel is a group of people being followed before election, they are giving their views on current events and wether or not it changes their voting-tendencies. )

Trebuchet · 2004-07-23 13:54:27

Not Bush's fault, no, but Cobra's right, the sheer incompetence displayed by the bureacracies is staggering.

Cobra Commander · 2004-07-23 14:44:47

Not really new, but interesting:

"Bin Ladin shares Qutb;s stark view, permitting him and his followers to rationalize even unprovoked mass murder as righteous defense of an embattled faith. Many Americans have wondered "Why do they hate us? Some also ask, What can we do to stop these attacks?
Bin Ladin and al Qaeda have given answers to both these questions.To the first, they say that America had attacked Islam; America is responsible for all conflicts involving Muslims. Thus Americans are blamed when Israelis fight with Palestinians, when Russians fight with Chechens, when Indians fight with Kashmiri Muslims, and when the Philippine government fights ethnic Muslims in its southern islands. America is also held responsible for the governments of Muslim countries, derided by al Qaeda as your agents. Bin Ladin has stated flatly, "Our fight against these governments is not separate from our fight against you." These charges found a ready audience among millions of Arabs and Muslims angry at the United States because of issues ranging from Iraq to Pales-tine to America's support for their countries' repressive rulers. Bin Ladin's grievance with the United States may have started in reaction to specific U.S. policies but it quickly became far deeper.To the second ques-tion, what America could do, al Qaeda's answer was that America should abandon the Middle East, convert to Islam, and end the immorality and godlessness of its society and culture. It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind. If the United States did notcomply, it would be at war with the Islamic nation, a nation that al Qaeda's leaders said desires death more than you desire life."

Palomar · 2004-07-23 15:26:59

Not really new, but interesting:
To the second ques-tion, what America could do, al Qaeda's answer was that America should abandon the Middle East, convert to Islam, and end the immorality and godlessness of its society and culture. It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind. If the United States did notcomply, it would be at war with the Islamic nation, a nation that al Qaeda's leaders said desires death more than you desire life."

*They'll huff an' they'll puff an' they'll blow our house down, huh?

We're the worst civilization in the history of the world? I wonder how much of history most of those half-literate gimps actually know. And no, I don't mean history exclusive to U.S. textbooks.

Well, looks like we're in it for the long haul. Actually, I wish I could give the world one week without the U.S. Let's see how well they'd get along without the mightiest economy on Earth.

But no, I don't discount some of the bad things the U.S. has done, bungled policies, etc. We have earned some of this hatred.

Convert to Islam? I'll withhold comment, except for this: :down: (But then that goes for any religion where I'm concerned).

Actually, the way things are going in our society, the U.S. will probably run the course Rome did: Decay and self-destruction from within (we won't need any "help"). But hey, if al-Qaeda wants to keep their collective boxers in a knot...

This nation's founders warned subsequent generations to pretty much stay home and mind their own business. Looks like we're going to (maybe) learn that the very hard way.

--Cindy

dicktice · 2004-07-24 13:12:38

Remember "Dr No"? I've pointed this out somewhere before, so I'll keep it short: Aliens-from-space provides the unifying influence for Earth's combatitive nations in sci-fi story after story, and moving pictures as well. To my knowledge the first Bond film "Dr No" provided the first implied threat to all the nations of Earth. Well, we can forget an actual alien invasion, since it won't happen in time to save us from ourselves . . . but now we have Osama bin Laden: Dr No in spades! And look how many recently completely incompatible nations have begun to draw together (however ruluctantly) against this common threat. His personification was quite unforeseen in even the darkest of sci-fi epics about apocalyptic futures. So how about a great big bronx cheer for good old Osama, for getting us to start pulling up our socks preparatory to spreading our civilization out into space?

Palomar · 2004-07-24 13:40:15

Remember "Dr No"?

*No.

(Just kidding).

I see your point, dicktice.

Bin Laden and his cohorts (ilk) are akin to Hitler and the Nazis. They want massive genocide, they are targeting a specific group of people; I see no difference.

--Cindy

P.S.: This quote especially: "the United States...a nation that al Qaeda's leaders said desires death more than you desire life." Straight from the horse's mouth. Is that a wake-up call or what? I wonder how many Americans will read that sentiment ... and heed it. Given the current ratio of smart/wise (few) to stupid/apathetic (many) in this nation, I'm not getting my hopes up. Sorry to say.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s … ]Australia threatened (and Italy -- again)

Cobra Commander · 2004-08-03 13:43:39

See, Clinton was on it, there was a plan.

"At some point during this period, President Clinton expressed his frustration with the lack of military options to take out Bin Ladin and the al Qaeda leadership, remarking to General Hugh Shelton, "You know, it would scare the shit out of al-Qaeda if suddenly a bunch of black ninjas rappelled out of helicopters into the middle of their camp." Although Shelton told the Commission he did not remember the statement, President Clinton recalled this remark as "one of the many things I said." The President added, however, that he realized
nothing would be accomplished if he lashed out in anger. Secretary of Defense William Cohen thought that the President might have been making a hypothetical statement. Regardless, he said, the question remained how to get the "ninjas" into and out of the theater of operations. As discussed in chapter 4, plans of this kind were never carried out before 9/11."

John Creighton · 2004-08-03 18:22:32

"At some point during this period, President Clinton expressed his frustration with the lack of military options to take out Bin Ladin and the al Qaeda leadership, remarking to General Hugh Shelton, "You know, it would scare the shit out of al-Qaeda if suddenly a bunch of black ninjas rappelled out of helicopters into the middle of their camp." Although Shelton told the Commission he did not remember the statement, President Clinton recalled this remark as "one of the many things I said." The President added, however, that he realized
nothing would be accomplished if he lashed out in anger. Secretary of Defense William Cohen thought that the President might have been making a hypothetical statement. Regardless, he said, the question remained how to get the "ninjas" into and out of the theater of operations. As discussed in chapter 4, plans of this kind were never carried out before 9/11."

Joke? ??? :hm:

Cobra Commander · 2004-08-03 18:51:50

Joke?

Well, I posted it because it's kinda funny, but it's really in the report.

Ninjas :laugh:

Rxke · 2004-08-04 01:47:17

Is there any mention about that last-minute scrub of a planned UAV attack on Bin Laden?

It was supposed to have happened during Clinton's presidency, allegedly they were able at one instance to kill Bin Laden, but they didn't...

Cobra Commander · 2004-08-04 05:57:48

Re. the UAV attack. According to the report the armed version of the Predator drone wasn't even near ready for deployment until early in the Bush Administration, though a number of attempts to capture/kill bin Laden were aborted under Clinton, among them an ambush by Northern Alliance forces, capturing him using tribal forces, and a cruise missile strike aborted at the last moment due to some doubts about accuracy of the intel placing bin Laden at the target site. It was later confirmed that he was there, but left early so it's questionable whether the strike would have got him.

None of the partisans really get what they wanted in the report. Clinton's lack of bold action is understandable given the situation at the time (there's no way the US would just up and invade Afghanistan on a whim, for example) but no reasonable person could read through it and conclude that "it's Bush's fault" either. Just a long string of government officials missing clues, guarding turf and not really sure what their limits or responsibilities were, doing nothing. We all know the drill. :hm:

clark · 2004-08-05 14:32:00

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we," -President Bush, Jr. - Speaking during a signing ceremony for a new $417 billion defense appropriations bill that includes $25 billion in emergency funding for operations in Iraq

What a jack ass. :laugh:

BWhite · 2004-08-05 14:36:12

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/8/5/114044/0656]A popular new Democratic web-site

= = =

While police guard Kerry & Bush, thieves http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld … dlines]rob three banks!

clark · 2004-08-05 14:54:21

By his statements, would he qualify as part of the "Axis of Evil" now?

The bombers are in the air... :laugh:

C M Edwards · 2004-08-05 20:14:59

*Sigh.* You know, I like that junior senator that Dubya's daddy had for his vice president. In spite of some bad press, he's a reasonable fellow, and I'd have voted for him instead of our current president.

They ate that man alive for even allowing the impression that he was like this. But George W Bush - who really is that inept of an orator - gets Texas, the presidency, and possibly a second term.

Where's the justice?

<Edit Addition> Of course, it's looking like George W Bush is going to be one of our most quoted presidents. I guess there's some poetic justice there...

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#1 2004-07-23 08:03:15

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#2 2004-07-23 08:20:49

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#3 2004-07-23 08:32:12

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#4 2004-07-23 09:31:20

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#5 2004-07-23 13:54:27

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#6 2004-07-23 14:44:47

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#7 2004-07-23 15:26:59

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#8 2004-07-24 13:12:38

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#9 2004-07-24 13:40:15

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#10 2004-08-03 13:43:39

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#11 2004-08-03 18:22:32

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#12 2004-08-03 18:51:50

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#13 2004-08-04 01:47:17

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#14 2004-08-04 05:57:48

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#15 2004-08-05 14:32:00

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#16 2004-08-05 14:36:12

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#17 2004-08-05 14:54:21

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

#18 2004-08-05 20:14:59

Re: 9/11 Commission Report - Anyone else reading this thing?

Board footer