What i herd on TV - What i herd on TV

PaganToris · 2002-08-07 16:20:37

i was whatchinbg the discovery sometime last week and a guy said that if we where to live on mars no matrter what happen we would have o drink recycled sweat and urine now tell me would u guys wanna live on mars now?
I WANNA HEAR WHAT U GUYS HAVE TO SAY!

Phobos · 2002-08-07 19:39:53

As long as the purification system is working well drinking recycled moisture isn't really a big deal since the water will still be pure. Anyhow, here on Earth we're basically drinking the body waste of untold animals through the eons ourselves. Even water that is evaporated from the oceans and returned to us as fresh water through rain was once host to the body waste of the critters that live there.

Bill White · 2002-08-08 09:33:19

Don't forget about photocatalysts. A while back I posted several links about these processes.

Place a quantity of slightly "dirty" water in a giant glass jar - add the appropriate photocatalysts - set out in the sun. OK, I agree that Martian insolation is meager, so we give it more time and we build jars out of thermopane glass.

The photocatalysts use the solar energy to crack the H2O into H2 gas and O2 gas which can be siphoned off.

Now burn the H2 and you have pure distilled water - far cleaner than anything you will ever drink out of a municipal water faucet, even after you use Brita or Everpur.

So, whats the problem?

PS - I will look for links, later, but "google" for photocatalysts and you will be buried in links. . .

Bill White · 2002-08-08 09:40:50

30 seconds on google:

Problem/Opportunity
Toxic organic and inorganic contaminants in waste streams generated by chemical, metallurgical, and other industries must be destroyed or removed before the waste streams are released to the environment. The activities of the DOE alone could generate more than 200,000 m3 of aqueous mixed waste, contaminated with both toxic organics and metals, that would require treatment over the next 20 years.
Many researchers have undertaken extensive studies of photocatalytic techniques assisted by titanium dioxide (TiO2) for the removal of organic and inorganic contaminants from aqueous waste streams. These techniques have been proven effective for oxidative destruction of the most resistant organic compounds and for reduction of several heavy metals. However, reduction of toxic heavy metal ions, such as lead (Pb2+), had not been reported.

Urine? No problem! Just don't add old crushed Duracell batteries to your water waste stream.

By the way, on the 9 month cruise from Earth to Mars, sunlight will NOT be in short supply.

Dirty water + TiO2 + sunlight = super clean water.

But, this is different from other photocatalysts I have read about which do actually crack H2O into H2 and O2.

Now, here is a blurb cut from from Nature, December 2001:

Water power - A new material helps to make clean fuel from water.
6 December 2001
PHILIP BALL
Hydrogen power could have a bright future.
? DOE/NREL
Scientists in Japan have found a more efficient way to extract hydrogen, the ultimate 'green' fuel, from water. They have developed a material that uses sunlight to break water molecules into their constituent elements of hydrogen and oxygen1.
The material is not yet efficient enough to be commercially viable, but its inventors believe that it can be improved. If they are right, hydrogen may soon be on tap just like natural gas.
Hydrogen burns in air without producing the sooty pollution and greenhouse gases associated with fossil fuels. The element can also power fuel cells to generate electricity. Such fuel cells can power emission-free electric vehicles.
Unfortunately, water is reluctant to give up its hydrogen. Electricity can split water, but electricity is mainly generated using polluting and nonrenewable technology.
Several 'photocatalysts' will split water quite efficiently using ultraviolet light. But this squanders most of the Sun's energy, which lies in the visible range. Visible-light photocatalysts, on the other hand, have tended to be either unstable, decomposing with prolonged use, or bad at splitting water.
Zhigang Zou of the National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology in Tsukuba, Japan, and co-workers have developed a photocatalyst that seems to be very stable, showing no evidence of degradation after extended use. It is not terribly efficient - over 99% of the light energy is wasted rather than used to split water - but this is respectable when compared with the competition.
The material, like the majority of visible-light photocatalysts, is a metal oxide, which generates hydrogen and oxygen when immersed in water in sunlight. The oxide contains indium, nickel and tantalum; the efficiency depends on the amount of nickel in the material.
Zou and colleagues believe that they can improve the efficiency by increasing the surface area of the photocatalyst - making it porous, for example, or grinding it into a fine powder - and by further tinkering with the chemical composition.

Comments:

"Commercially viable" is not relevant for Mars. The fact that these guys cannot generate power cheaper that gasoline at $1.50 per gallon - in the USA - does not mean this catalyst would not be amazingly cheap compared with other Martian power sources.

Besides, we are killing three birds with one stone, aren't we?

If urine, sweat and other bodily fluids can be cracked into H2 and O2 - leaving behind solid wastes that can be reprocessed as well, we generate energy and keep the habitat clean and have 100% oure water for drinking. Anyone see a problem?

A New Zealand company has a photocatalyst coating that can be applied to glass and ceramic. Expose it to UV light and organic grime on the surface - sweat, grease, fingerprints, mold, bacteria - are broken down into basic elements. Washing the hab may mean flooding it with UV light given freely by the Sun - get the people out first - and then sweep up the debris.

IMHO we should try this out on the ISS right now. Fly up some treated glass or ceramic panels. Grow molds, or bacterial cultures, or rub human sweat and grime on the panels - and then expose to natural sunlight. If the stuff decays, we have a new material for building the insides of spaceship habitats and we "wash up" by flooding compartments with natural sunlight.

Better chemistry for better living!

Mark S · 2002-08-08 10:27:56

As long a you can filter the urea, salts, and other undrinkables from the water, I'd have no problem going to Mars and recycling my waste water. The ISS has this ability, but frequent resupply missions and the astronauts' distrust of the purification system has meant that the reclaimed water hasn't been reused.

PaganToris · 2002-08-09 23:20:19

well still just thnxing of the fact that u are drinking someone elses body waste aint all that great u guys might thnx it is but i dont.

CalTech2010 · 2002-12-02 16:13:15

You're getting too stuck on the thought of drinking urine. After you've removed the impurities from the urine, at the molecular level it is just like drinking pure water.

Phobos is completely correct about drinking the wastes of eons of animals. We are really just the present keepers and users of recycled atoms.

Yes it's gross thinking about drinking someone else's urine, but with a subatomic state of mind it really isn't so gross.

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#1 2002-08-07 16:20:37

Re: What i herd on TV - What i herd on TV

#2 2002-08-07 19:39:53

Re: What i herd on TV - What i herd on TV

#3 2002-08-08 09:33:19

Re: What i herd on TV - What i herd on TV

#4 2002-08-08 09:40:50

Re: What i herd on TV - What i herd on TV

#5 2002-08-08 10:27:56

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#6 2002-08-09 23:20:19

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#7 2002-12-02 16:13:15

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