A "Yes These People Actually Exist Moment" - Phyllis Reincarnated.

ikester7579 · 2004-05-03 05:29:51

I warned you didn't I :<

O yes, the warning. Where did I post anything that was what you accused me of doing? Remember all that bad stuff?

I have to warn New Mars, ikester is known for spreading false information, propaganda, spamming, flaming, and resistance to *gasp* learning!

Hmmm. ???

ikester7579 · 2004-05-06 01:25:58

ok.......
If God is all powerfull (which im not contesting)
and can 'speak' anything into existence

Why did it take him six days?

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Doesnt sound like a days work to me - more like 30 seconds. But if he didnt rest till the 7th day, what was he doing for the rest of the time?

Or maybe God didnt tell us everything, maybe he just wanted to get across the point that he made everything, and he did it in stages, and it was actually quite hard and he was proud of his little project and he didnt want us to get the impression that he had rushed things or cut any corners?

Why is the number 6 and resting on the 7th important in the creation? God is a God of numbers:

One is the number for unity. Genesis 1:1-5. The part of creation that comes together. So ends the first day.

Two is the number of division. Genesis 1:6-8, God devides or seperates things. The waters from above from the water below. So ends day two.

Three is the number of resurrection, devine completeness and perfection. Genesis 1:9-13, God resurrects life from his creation (earth). The earth is now finished or completed, it's life, that grows from it, and it's form, is done. So ends day three.

Four is the number of creation of everything that so far does not require the blood of life. Genesis 1:14-19. All of the stars, planets etc... are now completed. So the void (filling the earth with life that grows from itself) is now fixed.

Four also applies to:
1) Four regions; North, South, East, West.
2) Four elemants; Earth, Air, Fire, Water.
3) Four Seasons; Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter.
4) Four kingdoms; Mineral, vegetable, animal, spiritual.
5) Four winds; from the four directions of this earth as mentioned in the word of God.
6) Four divisions of our day; morning, noon, evening, and night.
7) Four phases of the moon; 1st quarter, new moon, last quarter, and full moon.

Five is the number for God's grace or goodness. There are five offerings in the word of God: 1) The burnt offering, 2) The peace offering, 3) The sin offering, 4) The trespass offering, and 5) The meat offering. To have these offerings, you have to have animals to scrifice. So on the fifth day, God created the animals(Genesis 1:20-23) so that His grace through offerings for sins could be manifested.

Six is the number of: weakness of man, evils of satan, and manifestation of sin. All of this came about through the creation of man. Genesis 1:24-31. Man is what satan used to manifest his evil (sin) through.

Seven is the number for completeness, and spiritual perfection, Genesis 2:1-3. This also set up the 7 day week as a time period we now use. 7 is also the day we worship the Lord.

God could have created everything in one day if He wanted. But as with everything else in His word, it has a message to it. God does not waste any part where His word is written. God is perfect, even up to the number of days He used for His creation. And these numbers coinside with so many things through out the Bible which are way to many to list here. With one number above, I could have listed enough information that would triple how long this post is right now. All the verses, laws, people, things, events, etc...
I hope this helps you better understand.

Algol · 2004-05-06 06:49:39

From your website:

1) Each cell has 2 meters of DNA

Correct. <sigh> you make such a promising start

2) Average person has 75 trillion cells.

The number of cells in the average human body is closer to 10 trillion; you are either including bacteria or are enourmously fat - either way, you are wrong.

3) Length of DNA in a person=150 x 10 to the 12th power in meters or 46,500,000,000 miles.

Its closer to 15 bn miles - but i can see this is just a follow-on mistake from your earlier miscalculation, so i'll let you off.

4) Distance from earth to sun= 150 x 10 to the 9th power in meters or 93,000,000 miles.

woo hoo - back to reality

Some answers:
1) If you were to stretch out the DNA in one cell in a straight line it would be 2 meters long.

Once again, you make a promising start

2) From head to toe, a person has 75 trillion cells. Blood cells, bone cells, brain cells etc... Everything in your body is made up of living cells!

Once again, simply not true.

3) If you took all the DNA that's in your body and stretched it out. You could go the the sun from earth and back again, 500 times!

Closer to 150 times. Your mistake again lies in your earlier calculation, but this isnt the real problem i have with your piece so i shant dwell on it to much.

4) Distance to the sun 93,000,000 miles. 93,000,000m x 500 = 46,500,000,000 miles is how long your DNA is in your whole body!

See above...

How much information can DNA hold?
The DNA molecule found in the nucleus of all cells can hold more information in a cubic centimeter than a trillion music CDs. A spoonful of Shapiro's "computer soup" contains 15,000 trillion computers. And its energy-efficiency is more than a million times that of a PC.

Largely correct - almost entirely irrelevant.

Now since you have read all this. How big is 2%?
2% of 75 trillion cells
2% of 46,500,000,000 miles of DNA

<sigh>

2% of a trillion music CD's( each CD holds 700 megs of data).If "one" music cd can hold 700 megs, 2% of that would be 14 megs(the 2% of one cd). So 14 megs times 1 trillion = 14 trillion megs! This is how much information 1 DNA molecule holds at the 2% level. And since there are 75 trillion cells, average, in the human body to get the total DNA information, it would be 14 trillion(information on one DNA molecule) times 75 trillion molecules(average DNA molecules in a human body). So 14 trillion times 75 trillion = 1050 trillion megs of DNA information through out your whole body. 2% of that is 21 trillion megs. Get the picture?

Where do i start.

It is true that a single cubic cm of dried DNA can hold roughly a trillion music cds of information, however, there is not a cubic cm of material in every cell so your "75 trillion cells multiplied by 1 trillion CD's" comparison is wildly innacurate. You have obviously, somehow, equated 2 m of DNA length to 1 cubic cm of dried DNA.

Every cell in the human body holds exactly the same DNA as the cell next to it. That single sequence of DNA hold all the information that any cell in the body needs in order to do its little job. Therefore mutiplying the number of cells by the length of DNA is an entirely pointless exercise.

You have also displayed a blatant ignorance of primary-school mathematics by twice taking the a 2% value from your total.

A watermelon, a cloud and a Jellyfish only differ by 2%! But are they related? They all contain 98% water. So they are only different by 2%

This statement displays such basic lack of understanding of the actual discussion that i am honestly left speechless.

If you ever had any doubts about this Evolution-Creation thing, you won't after I explain this.

Painfully ironic. If this is the sort of argument creationists put forward it is little wonder that you constantly have to fall back to your "God can 'Speak' everything into existence" argument. A six year-old child could comfortably rip you to pieces in a debate, and all without lifting his eyes from his gameboy. Your basic understanding of science and mathematics is so bad that i find it a wonder you can spell, let alone type - but maybe you got god to 'speak' your post into existence.

Algol · 2004-05-06 06:53:42

Why is the number 6 and resting on the 7th important in the creation? God is a God of numbers:
One is the number for unity. Genesis 1:1-5. The part of creation that comes together. So ends the first day.
Two is the number of division. Genesis 1:6-8, God devides or seperates things. The waters from above from the water below. So ends day two.
Three is the number of resurrection, devine completeness and perfection. Genesis 1:9-13, God resurrects life from his creation (earth). The earth is now finished or completed, it's life, that grows from it, and it's form, is done. So ends day three.
Four is the number of creation of everything that so far does not require the blood of life. Genesis 1:14-19. All of the stars, planets etc... are now completed. So the void (filling the earth with life that grows from itself) is now fixed.
Four also applies to:
1) Four regions; North, South, East, West.
2) Four elemants; Earth, Air, Fire, Water.
3) Four Seasons; Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter.
4) Four kingdoms; Mineral, vegetable, animal, spiritual.
5) Four winds; from the four directions of this earth as mentioned in the word of God.
6) Four divisions of our day; morning, noon, evening, and night.
7) Four phases of the moon; 1st quarter, new moon, last quarter, and full moon.
Five is the number for God's grace or goodness. There are five offerings in the word of God: 1) The burnt offering, 2) The peace offering, 3) The sin offering, 4) The trespass offering, and 5) The meat offering. To have these offerings, you have to have animals to scrifice. So on the fifth day, God created the animals(Genesis 1:20-23) so that His grace through offerings for sins could be manifested.
Six is the number of: weakness of man, evils of satan, and manifestation of sin. All of this came about through the creation of man. Genesis 1:24-31. Man is what satan used to manifest his evil (sin) through.
Seven is the number for completeness, and spiritual perfection, Genesis 2:1-3. This also set up the 7 day week as a time period we now use. 7 is also the day we worship the Lord.

I cant really see your point - but considering your track record with numbers I'm not going to bother reading it again.

Congratulations on counting to six though. (I'm assuming you got seven because it was the only number left)

ikester7579 · 2004-05-06 20:53:28

From your website:

1) Each cell has 2 meters of DNA
Correct. <sigh> you make such a promising start

2) Average person has 75 trillion cells.
The number of cells in the average human body is closer to 10 trillion; you are either including bacteria or are enourmously fat - either way, you are wrong.

3) Length of DNA in a person=150 x 10 to the 12th power in meters or 46,500,000,000 miles.
Its closer to 15 bn miles - but i can see this is just a follow-on mistake from your earlier miscalculation, so i'll let you off.

4) Distance from earth to sun= 150 x 10 to the 9th power in meters or 93,000,000 miles.
woo hoo - back to reality

Some answers:
1) If you were to stretch out the DNA in one cell in a straight line it would be 2 meters long.
Once again, you make a promising start

2) From head to toe, a person has 75 trillion cells. Blood cells, bone cells, brain cells etc... Everything in your body is made up of living cells!
Once again, simply not true.

3) If you took all the DNA that's in your body and stretched it out. You could go the the sun from earth and back again, 500 times!
Closer to 150 times. Your mistake again lies in your earlier calculation, but this isnt the real problem i have with your piece so i shant dwell on it to much.

4) Distance to the sun 93,000,000 miles. 93,000,000m x 500 = 46,500,000,000 miles is how long your DNA is in your whole body!
See above...

How much information can DNA hold?
The DNA molecule found in the nucleus of all cells can hold more information in a cubic centimeter than a trillion music CDs. A spoonful of Shapiro's "computer soup" contains 15,000 trillion computers. And its energy-efficiency is more than a million times that of a PC.
Largely correct - almost entirely irrelevant.

Now since you have read all this. How big is 2%?
2% of 75 trillion cells
2% of 46,500,000,000 miles of DNA
<sigh>

2% of a trillion music CD's( each CD holds 700 megs of data).If "one" music cd can hold 700 megs, 2% of that would be 14 megs(the 2% of one cd). So 14 megs times 1 trillion = 14 trillion megs! This is how much information 1 DNA molecule holds at the 2% level. And since there are 75 trillion cells, average, in the human body to get the total DNA information, it would be 14 trillion(information on one DNA molecule) times 75 trillion molecules(average DNA molecules in a human body). So 14 trillion times 75 trillion = 1050 trillion megs of DNA information through out your whole body. 2% of that is 21 trillion megs. Get the picture?

Where do i start.
It is true that a single cubic cm of dried DNA can hold roughly a trillion music cds of information, however, there is not a cubic cm of material in every cell so your "75 trillion cells multiplied by 1 trillion CD's" comparison is wildly innacurate. You have obviously, somehow, equated 2 m of DNA length to 1 cubic cm of dried DNA.

Every cell in the human body holds exactly the same DNA as the cell next to it. That single sequence of DNA hold all the information that any cell in the body needs in order to do its little job. Therefore mutiplying the number of cells by the length of DNA is an entirely pointless exercise.

You have also displayed a blatant ignorance of primary-school mathematics by twice taking the a 2% value from your total.

A watermelon, a cloud and a Jellyfish only differ by 2%! But are they related? They all contain 98% water. So they are only different by 2%
This statement displays such basic lack of understanding of the actual discussion that i am honestly left speechless.

If you ever had any doubts about this Evolution-Creation thing, you won't after I explain this.
Painfully ironic. If this is the sort of argument creationists put forward it is little wonder that you constantly have to fall back to your "God can 'Speak' everything into existence" argument. A six year-old child could comfortably rip you to pieces in a debate, and all without lifting his eyes from his gameboy. Your basic understanding of science and mathematics is so bad that i find it a wonder you can spell, let alone type - but maybe you got god to 'speak' your post into existence.

LOL, considering that I got this info off a scientific site just goes to show that science itself does not even agree with it self. Do you really think I came up with those numbers myself? I know very little about dna. But say what you will to discredit the information. I'm used to it, it's done all the time. But then again, you also are discrediting the site I got it off of. I guess I'll list what's wrong with it, as you say, and list it as an example of how science can't even agree with itself ??? .

ikester7579 · 2004-05-06 20:55:04

Why is the number 6 and resting on the 7th important in the creation? God is a God of numbers:
One is the number for unity. Genesis 1:1-5. The part of creation that comes together. So ends the first day.
Two is the number of division. Genesis 1:6-8, God devides or seperates things. The waters from above from the water below. So ends day two.
Three is the number of resurrection, devine completeness and perfection. Genesis 1:9-13, God resurrects life from his creation (earth). The earth is now finished or completed, it's life, that grows from it, and it's form, is done. So ends day three.
Four is the number of creation of everything that so far does not require the blood of life. Genesis 1:14-19. All of the stars, planets etc... are now completed. So the void (filling the earth with life that grows from itself) is now fixed.
Four also applies to:
1) Four regions; North, South, East, West.
2) Four elemants; Earth, Air, Fire, Water.
3) Four Seasons; Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter.
4) Four kingdoms; Mineral, vegetable, animal, spiritual.
5) Four winds; from the four directions of this earth as mentioned in the word of God.
6) Four divisions of our day; morning, noon, evening, and night.
7) Four phases of the moon; 1st quarter, new moon, last quarter, and full moon.
Five is the number for God's grace or goodness. There are five offerings in the word of God: 1) The burnt offering, 2) The peace offering, 3) The sin offering, 4) The trespass offering, and 5) The meat offering. To have these offerings, you have to have animals to scrifice. So on the fifth day, God created the animals(Genesis 1:20-23) so that His grace through offerings for sins could be manifested.
Six is the number of: weakness of man, evils of satan, and manifestation of sin. All of this came about through the creation of man. Genesis 1:24-31. Man is what satan used to manifest his evil (sin) through.
Seven is the number for completeness, and spiritual perfection, Genesis 2:1-3. This also set up the 7 day week as a time period we now use. 7 is also the day we worship the Lord.
I cant really see your point - but considering your track record with numbers I'm not going to bother reading it again.
Congratulations on counting to six though. (I'm assuming you got seven because it was the only number left)

Do I get a surprise if I get to ten? Your so funny.

Euler · 2004-05-06 21:05:13

LOL, considering that I got this info off a scientific site just goes to show that science itself does not even agree with it self. Do you really think I came up with those numbers myself? I know very little about dna. But say what you will to discredit the information. I'm used to it, it's done all the time. But then again, you also are discrediting the site I got it off of. I guess I'll list what's wrong with it, as you say, and list it as an example of how science can't even agree with itself.

It is not an example of science disagreeing with itself, it is an example of how not everyone with a webpage knows what they are talking about.

ikester7579 · 2004-05-08 01:29:16

LOL, considering that I got this info off a scientific site just goes to show that science itself does not even agree with it self. Do you really think I came up with those numbers myself? I know very little about dna. But say what you will to discredit the information. I'm used to it, it's done all the time. But then again, you also are discrediting the site I got it off of. I guess I'll list what's wrong with it, as you say, and list it as an example of how science can't even agree with itself.
It is not an example of science disagreeing with itself, it is an example of how not everyone with a webpage knows what they are talking about.

Ok, list the mistakes and the corrections, with references, and I'll fix it.

Gasp!
I seem to remember someone accusing me of not wanting to learn? ???

Palomar · 2004-05-08 15:34:20

LOL, considering that I got this info off a scientific site just goes to show that science itself does not even agree with it self. Do you really think I came up with those numbers myself? I know very little about dna. But say what you will to discredit the information. I'm used to it, it's done all the time. But then again, you also are discrediting the site I got it off of. I guess I'll list what's wrong with it, as you say, and list it as an example of how science can't even agree with itself.
It is not an example of science disagreeing with itself, it is an example of how not everyone with a webpage knows what they are talking about.

*Good point, Euler.

As for Ikester's (disingenuous, IMO) statement "Hmmm, guess science can be wrong": I don't recall science/scientists ever claiming they -couldn't- be wrong. On the contrary, I've heard plenty of preachers and religionists imply they can't be wrong.

And that raises a few interesting points: Was the Virgin Mary always and forever a virgin? Or did she have children after Jesus? Can salvation be earned or not? Can salvation be lost once it's been gained or not? Can a person achieve perfection while still on Earth ("entire sanctification") prior to death or can't they? Is the Pope the deity's supreme representative on Earth or isn't he? Can Mary intercede for sinners alongside of Jesus, or can't she? On and on...

Religion is SO massively confused it isn't even funny [and all the while every sect, denomination, etc., assert -they- have exclusive rights to "the truth" and the right way to salvation, and while damning every other religious grouplet who dares disgree with one tenet of their particular dogma]. Hmmm...I guess religion can be wrong.

But I suppose Ikester will hang around a while longer, hoping to score more reward points with his deity.

--Cindy

ikester7579 · 2004-05-09 04:02:58

LOL, considering that I got this info off a scientific site just goes to show that science itself does not even agree with it self. Do you really think I came up with those numbers myself? I know very little about dna. But say what you will to discredit the information. I'm used to it, it's done all the time. But then again, you also are discrediting the site I got it off of. I guess I'll list what's wrong with it, as you say, and list it as an example of how science can't even agree with itself.
It is not an example of science disagreeing with itself, it is an example of how not everyone with a webpage knows what they are talking about.
*Good point, Euler.
As for Ikester's (disingenuous, IMO) statement "Hmmm, guess science can be wrong": I don't recall science/scientists ever claiming they -couldn't- be wrong. On the contrary, I've heard plenty of preachers and religionists imply they can't be wrong.
And that raises a few interesting points: Was the Virgin Mary always and forever a virgin? Or did she have children after Jesus? Can salvation be earned or not? Can salvation be lost once it's been gained or not? Can a person achieve perfection while still on Earth ("entire sanctification") prior to death or can't they? Is the Pope the deity's supreme representative on Earth or isn't he? Can Mary intercede for sinners alongside of Jesus, or can't she? On and on...
Religion is SO massively confused it isn't even funny [and all the while every sect, denomination, etc., assert -they- have exclusive rights to "the truth" and the right way to salvation, and while damning every other religious grouplet who dares disgree with one tenet of their particular dogma]. Hmmm...I guess religion can be wrong.
But I suppose Ikester will hang around a while longer, hoping to score more reward points with his deity.
--Cindy

For man to ever claim not to be wrong is to lie. And to also make the claim to be God like. Only God is always right, for to be God it is a requirement.

As for your questions:
Was the Virgin Mary always and forever a virgin? Nope. The reason she was called a virgin for the birth of Jesus is because she had laid with no man. And this had to be so also because the claim of Jesus being the Son of God would not have been valid if Jesus were the Son of mortal men. Can imperfect man produce a perfect being? I think not.

Can salvation be earned or not? Salvation is only through Christ: Revelation 3:20, Behold, I stand at the DOOR, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the DOOR, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. It is a choice that we have had from the creation. Since Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge.

Can salvation be lost once it's been gained or not?Yes it can be lost.
http://yecheadquarters.org/catalog4.4.html]Losing salvation.

Can a person achieve perfection while still on Earth ("entire sanctification") prior to death or can't they? Sins can be forgiven. But perfection can only be obtained without sin from the very beginning. For if perfection were obtainable, then Christ would not have had to die on the cross for our imperfections.

Is the Pope the deity's supreme representative on Earth or isn't he? Did the Pope die on the cross for our sins? Only a sinless person that was not born into sin from the very beginning can die for sin so that sin can be forgiven.
Example: In the story of Abramham and his son. When he went to the mountain to sacrafice his son because God had told him to. God stopped him. Why? A representation of sin (man) cannot be a sacrafice for the sins of man. This is why perfection is important for sin to be forgiven. Only a perfect being can die for an imperfect world.

Can Mary intercede for sinners alongside of Jesus, or can't she? Did Mary die on the cross? Was Mary without sin? Was Mary born into sin? Were Mary's parent without sin like God the father? Perfection for the sacrafice for the forgivness of sin has to have perfection from beginning to end. With no sin inbetween. Mary was pure at heart, and this is why God choose her for the task of baring Christ.

Religion is SO massively confused it isn't even funny [and all the while every sect, denomination, etc., assert -they- have exclusive rights to "the truth" and the right way to salvation, and while damning every other religious grouplet who dares disgree with one tenet of their particular dogma]. Hmmm...I guess religion can be wrong.

I agree. Man always messes up the word of God and it's meaning. This is why I decided not to take anything out of context that does not support God's word through from one end to the other. To make assumptions about what is not understood is to make your own religion and belief, if your wrong and try to push it as truth upon others. We try to understand things before God gives us the wisdom to do so. And in this process we rely to much on the opinions of what others say about the word of God. God's word is what it is, and until it is accepted as that, it will always be confusing.

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