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#1 2004-05-03 19:38:31
- Acidrain
- InActive
- From: Cali USA
- Registered: 2004-04-25
- Posts: 7
Re: Senate committee want to kill shuttle outright!
The Senate's Committee on Commerce, Science, & Transportation, which oversees NASA's budget, is holding a hearing Wednesday on the Space Shuttle and future launch vehicles. The chairman of the committee, Sen. Brownback, has made some noises recently about killing the shuttle outright and shifting the funds to future launch vehicles.
Space Shuttle and the Future of Space Launch Vehicles
Science, Technology, and Space Hearing
Wednesday, May 5 2004 - 2:30 PM - SR - 253
http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/wit … fm?id=1175
(Note: URL includes a link for a webcast od the presentations)
This should be interesting, perhaps the funds could be funding something more realistic and to Mars!!!
Acidrain
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#2 2004-05-03 19:49:15
- Bill White
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- Registered: 2001-09-09
- Posts: 2,114
Re: Senate committee want to kill shuttle outright!
Why buy tires for a car headed to the junkyard?
A link to Brownback's http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascit … c]possible position on this.
= = =
A reply:
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#3 2004-05-04 08:49:53
- clark
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- Registered: 2001-09-20
- Posts: 6,375
Re: Senate committee want to kill shuttle outright!
This situation is exactly why we shouldn't depend on any other nation for our space access, in any capacity.
If Congress kills the Shuttle, we have effectively ended international participation in the ISS by unilaterally altering the scope of the ISS. We have agreements with our international partners that require us to develop agreements and consensus on any changes made to ISS.
This also means no American's ever go into space until Constellation is up and ready, or, as Bill has often pointed out with Plan Bush: Kill the Shuttle and ISS, yet do not approve Plan Bush, and we all will see the demise of human space flight (by America).
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#4 2004-05-06 01:30:44
- PurduesUSAFguy
- Banned
- From: Purdue University
- Registered: 2004-04-04
- Posts: 237
Re: Senate committee want to kill shuttle outright!
I have a hard time seeing the death of the shuttle as anything but a good thing. It will take such an action to force NASA to commit to a new system and get it developed. It this kills the ISS so be it. I have yet to see any new science it is supposed to be doing that hasn't been done on Mir, Salut, or Sky Lab previously. If nothing else sell the US interest in it to a private group, maybe it can acheive the goal that the Idustrial Space Facility (ISF) set out to do in the late 80s before it was targeted and killed by NASA.
Clark, I don't think that there are any conspiracies to kill human space flight. It is an iconic part of our national and international identity. If nothing else there is too much money and political capital invested in the NASA centers, especially the two directly dependant on human space flight for congress to kill them out right. The loss of thousands of NASA and contractor jobs would be political suicide.
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#5 2004-05-06 10:14:35
- clark
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- Registered: 2001-09-20
- Posts: 6,375
Re: Senate committee want to kill shuttle outright!
I think it unlikely too, but that dosen't mean others don't think it's a nice little thing to do.
We can also alter NASA to such an extent it ain't NASA no more. What I think may come down the line is an accelerated retirement of the Shuttle accomadated by some horse trading, as follows:
US commits to completing US core complete of the ISS, followed by the immediate retirement of the shuttle fleet.
Immediate development of some SDV using two of the exsisting orbitor's.
Agreement between the international partners that the US will pay for the completion of the ISS via some Shuttle alternative- either with some SDV later, or any other approach that someone can think up.
Agreement and change in current US law to allow NASA to fund Soyuz rocket rides, which takes the pressure off of Russia to sell their seats. NASA simply buys the seats, which means we don't have to worry about tourists or 1 year missions for astronauts.
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#6 2004-05-06 10:50:22
- Bill White
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- Registered: 2001-09-09
- Posts: 2,114
Re: Senate committee want to kill shuttle outright!
ISS completion issues:
Shuttle can loft roughly 12,500 kg to 51 degrees, right? Too lazy now to hunt down the exact figure. ISS modules all fit that criteria.
Proton can lift 19,000 kg to 51 degrees for less than $100 million per shot. Maybe way less.
As GCNRevenger has taught us, last mile guidance is crucial.
24 Protons would cost $2.4 billion, correct? Therefore there would be billions of dollars left over from the STS budget to design and deploy a "last mile" module to attach to the Proton carried payload.
But that transfers billions from NASA's budget to Russia. Unacceptable, right?
= = =
Option #2
Bigelow is claiming to be working on ultra low cost on orbit stuctures for its space hotel.
Now that Kouru will come onlien for Soyuz, abandon ISS (or donate it) and build ISS-2 in a few years with much lower costs and at a decent inclination.
Ground orbiter today, unless it can be space hardened for permanent deployment at ISS-2 with no heat shields and her wings clipped. As I proposed before retrofit with cold gas manuevering thrusters, long lived space hardened fuel cells and re-fillable OMS tanks.
Park at ISS-2 and NEVER come down, except into the deep Pacific after its working life is exceeded.
Then launch the next one. 
Smithsonian don't need no multi-billion dollar spacecraft.
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#7 2004-05-06 10:59:36
- clark
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- Registered: 2001-09-20
- Posts: 6,375
Re: Senate committee want to kill shuttle outright!
Option #3
Agree that ISS is done with US core complete, with US funding launch for any remaining modules for the international partners that want certain ones. Instead of 30 flights, we try for ten (five more Shuttle, five non-shuttle US funded).
Allow Russia to send up as many tourists as they want, since the ISS will be "complete". Use ESA as the alternative to move astronauts up and down on our own schedule.
Throw a few bones to our partners on this constellation project.
Ditch SDV, go EELV.
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#8 2004-05-06 11:45:33
- Bill White
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- Registered: 2001-09-09
- Posts: 2,114
Re: Senate committee want to kill shuttle outright!
Article on this subject
http://www.wesh.com/spacenews/3275615/d … etail.html
= = =
EELV vs SDV?
Can you say Boeing v. Thiokol, the mayor of New Orleans and the population of central Florida?
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#9 2004-05-06 12:14:30
- clark
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- Registered: 2001-09-20
- Posts: 6,375
Re: Senate committee want to kill shuttle outright!
I wonder what happens with the Shuttle after retirement- I mean, dosen't the United Space Alliance (basically Lockheed and Boeing) own it now? I never understood the full extent of the agreements made there.
I'm sure they won't be happy with an early retirement of the Shuttle... but then, maybe they will since that opens up more opportunites for their respective launch business.
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#10 2004-05-06 14:25:11
- Mark Friedenbach
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- From: Mountain View, CA
- Registered: 2003-01-31
- Posts: 325
Re: Senate committee want to kill shuttle outright!
I wonder what happens with the Shuttle after retirement- I mean, dosen't the United Space Alliance (basically Lockheed and Boeing) own it now? I never understood the full extent of the agreements made there.
I'm sure they won't be happy with an early retirement of the Shuttle... but then, maybe they will since that opens up more opportunites for their respective launch business.
NASA owns the shuttles, United Space handles most of the care, preparation, and launch services.
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