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#1 2004-04-29 14:26:19

John Creighton
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: 2001-09-04
Posts: 2,401
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Re: "air force 2025"


Dig into the [url=http://child-civilization.blogspot.com/2006/12/political-grab-bag.html]political grab bag[/url] at [url=http://child-civilization.blogspot.com/]Child Civilization[/url]

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#2 2004-04-29 14:28:35

John Creighton
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: 2001-09-04
Posts: 2,401
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Re: "air force 2025"

Chapter 3b
The Integrated System-of-Systems (cont)

Neutral Particle Beam

A Neutral Particle Beam (NPB) weapon produces a beam of near-light-speed-neutral atomic particles by subjecting hydrogen or deuterium gas to an enormous electrical charge.62 The electrical charge produces negatively charged ions that are accelerated through a long vacuum tunnel by an electrical potential in the hundreds-of-megavolt range. At the end of the tunnel, electrons are stripped from the negative ions, forming the high-speed-neutral atomic particles that are the neutral particle beam. The NPB delivers its kinetic energy directly into the atomic and subatomic structure of the target, literally heating the target from deep within.63 Charged particle beams (CPB) can be produced in a similar fashion, but they are easily deflected by the earth's magnetic field and their strong electrical charge causes the CPB to diffuse and break apart uncontrollably. Weapons-class NPBs require energies in the hundreds of millions of electron volts and beam powers in the tens of megawatts.64 Modern devices have not yet reached this level.65


Dig into the [url=http://child-civilization.blogspot.com/2006/12/political-grab-bag.html]political grab bag[/url] at [url=http://child-civilization.blogspot.com/]Child Civilization[/url]

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#3 2004-04-29 14:30:32

clark
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Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,374

Re: "air force 2025"

And where would they get the power for these things...

P-r-o-m-e-t-h-e-u-s.

Which is why Bill lost his bet.  :;):

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#4 2004-04-29 14:54:08

John Creighton
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: 2001-09-04
Posts: 2,401
Website

Re: "air force 2025"

In Greek mythology, Prometheus was the wisest of the Titans, and he gave the gift of fire to humanity. The name Prometheus means 'forethought.'

For NASA, the name “Prometheus” is indicative of our hope to establish a new tool for understanding nature and for expanding our exploration capabilities. The gift of fire to humans was a powerful gift. We believe that the knowledge that will be enabled by the technologies developed by Project Prometheus will also be a powerful gift. NASA intends that Project Prometheus will be a true gift that will enable the peaceful exploration of the Solar System and our ability to answer important questions about the origin of life in the universe. The Nuclear Systems Initiative was a useful title for the proposed program in that it was clear, concise and easily identifiable. As we move forward with the program, we believe that a name that also contains meanings related to our goals should be used, therefore, we have changed the name to “Project Prometheus.” http://spacescience.nasa.gov/missions/p … s.htm]from here


Dig into the [url=http://child-civilization.blogspot.com/2006/12/political-grab-bag.html]political grab bag[/url] at [url=http://child-civilization.blogspot.com/]Child Civilization[/url]

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#5 2004-04-29 14:58:36

clark
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Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,374

Re: "air force 2025"

I know the story, and I've heard NASA's speel. Nuclear technology can flatten a city, or power it.

Prometheus opens the door for nuclear reactors in space. Nuclear rectors in space allow for particle beams.

NASA needs nuclear power to go anywhere really, but that dosen't mean that the military is not going to use the technology developments for their own ends. NASA and the military have increased cross-technological research and development since Bush came into office.

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#6 2004-04-29 15:00:15

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: "air force 2025"

Prometheous? The little dinky 100's of kilowatt reactor? Nooo I don't think so, you would need far more power, these NaK/He cooled reactors can only reach megawatts efficently.

Somthing like a vapor core nuclear reactor.
http://www.spacetransportation.com/ast/ … _knigh.pdf


[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]

[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]

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#7 2004-04-29 15:01:28

clark
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Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,374

Re: "air force 2025"

Human rated nuclear propulsion will give the neccessary power output.

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#8 2004-04-29 15:23:48

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: "air force 2025"

What human rated nuclear electric propulsion? A nuclear thermal rocket is not suited to making electricity... I don't know how you'd even do that with a mid-sized NERVA-NTR or GCNR reactor.

Nobody is thinking about actually embarking on a program to make a vapor core reactor, thats waaay down the line.


[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]

[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]

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#9 2004-04-29 20:10:48

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: "air force 2025"

*ponders...*

But now if you had some way to store lots of electricity efficently, then a smaller reactor would do the trick.

A technique barrowed from MRI/NMR machines in hospitals and laboratories perhaps... a ring of superconducting material, ~0 resistance, and pump electrons into in only one direction... that might do it. You may need cryogenic componets for the cannon anyway to keep it cool.

Maybe the USAF has been playing Command & Conquer too much...


[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]

[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]

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#10 2004-04-30 22:17:43

John Creighton
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: 2001-09-04
Posts: 2,401
Website

Re: "air force 2025"

I can’t help but wonder why if a satellite fires such a powerful beam it doesn’t go flying backwards. Maybe the moon would be a better place to put such a weapons. Although from that distance it would be impossible to accurately target a fighter plane. Even at the speed of light, I wonder what the delay time would be? And, how fast would the particle beam travel? Would it even go half the speed of light?


Dig into the [url=http://child-civilization.blogspot.com/2006/12/political-grab-bag.html]political grab bag[/url] at [url=http://child-civilization.blogspot.com/]Child Civilization[/url]

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#11 2004-05-01 08:45:33

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: "air force 2025"

Considering the small amount of material actually fired from the cannon, not much recoil. Nothing that smallish OMS engines can't handle anyway.

If such a device were built, it would probably be put in a medium earth orbit, where it would have better coverage and longer attack times but be much closer than geostationary orbit.


[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]

[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]

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#12 2004-05-01 12:38:03

John Creighton
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: 2001-09-04
Posts: 2,401
Website

Re: "air force 2025"

Re-reading hundreds of magvollts, not hundreds of maga Jouls. Power is voltage times current, so how much ion current will be travelling through one of these things?

More rereading........oh it says near the speed of light.


Dig into the [url=http://child-civilization.blogspot.com/2006/12/political-grab-bag.html]political grab bag[/url] at [url=http://child-civilization.blogspot.com/]Child Civilization[/url]

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#13 2004-05-04 10:02:31

SBird
Banned
Registered: 2004-03-10
Posts: 490

Re: "air force 2025"

I stumbled across a webpage for acompany called electron power systems that discovered small, stable plasma toruses that can survive at atmospheric pressure.  For a while, they were claiming that you could store energy in the magnetic fields of the thing to stupid energy densities - claims going higher than the rest mass energy of the plasma were made.

However, NASA did a study and found that one of their numbers was off by many orders of magnitude.  To the company's credit, they accepted NASA's criticism and have since scaled down their claims.

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#14 2004-05-04 11:26:02

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,669

Re: "air force 2025"

The guy that is thinking about lightcraft has some plans for a station (wich is solar powered, but whatever) with *2* superconducting rings as a 'storagedevice' with the current running in opposite directions in each loop to null the magnetic etc interferences, torque i guess...

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#15 2004-05-04 22:58:06

SBird
Banned
Registered: 2004-03-10
Posts: 490

Re: "air force 2025"

The problem with superconductor rings is that the energy density is not that great.  Even traditional low temp superconductors break down at really high magnetic fluxes.  Cuperconductor rings are used for things like building sized UPSs but you're better off using something like methanol fuel cells for high energy density.

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