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Did you even read your link beyond the first few paragraphs?
If you took a few minutes to actually read it, and botherd to try and understand it, you would have noticed that this has not one single thing to do with lasers accelerating atoms or ions of any kind, including hydrogen.
The particle accelerator that shoots ions or neuteral atoms they speak of is traditionally called - get this - an ION ENGINE!.
That is what an induction particle accelerator for engine use is, is an ion engine, just operated at realtivly low power levels to maximize efficency.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
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correct and if you shine a laser down the center it would accelerate the particles also.
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Oui... look, there would be no efficent or useful acceleration of the gas molecules or ions because of the low gas pressure and the inefficency of photons in imparting acceleration to said propellant particles.
You are not addressing the underlying physics problems of your concept. It doesn't matter what trick or esoteric concept you dredge up, if you can't solve the underlying problem with the physics then there is no way it can work.
You have to deal with the physics first, as to how you can get gas molcules/ions to become linearly or thermally accelerated with efficency to warrent such a contraption.
Your next post should deal with the basic Quantum physics concerning how this would work, or else SBird in the other thread (E=MC^2) will be even more correct concerning your demeanor.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]
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Here is a better explaination:
[http://www.bnl.gov/atf/publications/Spa … _Paper.pdf]http://www.bnl.gov/atf/publications/Spa … _Paper.pdf
Your next post should deal with the basic Quantum physics concerning how this would work, or else SBird in the other thread will be even more correct concerning your demeanor.
You are incorrect in the name calling
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Errorist, you mean to tell me that you read and understood a highly technical small-print ten page paper, on a computer screen, this quickly? Frankly, I doubt you even understand what its talking about, and you are just wasting my time googleing anything with "accelerate" and "laser" in it.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
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That is what an induction particle accelerator for engine use is, is an ion engine, just operated at realtivly low power levels to maximize efficency.
Actually ion engines get more efficient as power and isp increase because a greater portion of the energy is used on the efficient acceleration of ions and less on the inefficient ionization. The ds1 ion engine had an isp of 3300 and about 60% efficiency while the new hipep engine has an isp of above 6000 and at least 80% efficiency. The reason why ion engines have lower isp values is to increase thrust. If power and efficiency are constant, then thrust and isp are inversely proportional to each other.
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If it works for electrons it will work for protons.
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No it won't, not nessesarrily, because electrons are entirely different particles from protons. Electrons are governed almost entirely by their quantum nature, while protons behave fairly well in the Newtonian realm.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
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In fact, before this "conversation" goes any further, how about you demonstrate your capacity to understand the concepts at issue by describing in detail how laser particle acceleration works on non-leptonic (i.e. not electrons or photons) particles or atoms.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
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Exactly, they are more massive, and the chances of being hit by photons are much greater.
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Exactly, they are more massive, and the chances of being hit by photons are much greater.
No, they are more massive so their chances of being hit are smaller. Due to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, the volume in which the particle might be found decreases as mass increases.
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Well, my last statement probably oversimplifies the case. However, you certainly cannot assume a particle's volume is directly proportional to its mass in quantum physics.
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In any event, its because the particle has no clearly defined position on the microworld quantum scale, and the heavier protons are better localized probably than the electrons.
Errorist, please describe in at least general terms how the laser will accelerate things besides electrons.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
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In the case for a photon ion linear collision. Due to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle we certainly know the H2+ ion will be in the tube somewhere. If we admit one Ion near the laser end of the tube it will be hit millions of times from behind by linear collisions.
A H2+ at rest accelerates at the rate of 1m/ps per collision. Every photon ion linear collision impact after that the acceleration ratio decreases for that ion. If it is hit a million times from behind with photon ion linear collisions think how fast it would be traveling.
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Obvious flaws:
~There is no H2+ ion
~Laser accleration/manipulation in the Physics community only work on electrons and ultracold atoms, and never atoms in any signifigant quantity.
~Why would it impart 1 m/sec of velocity from rest?
~Heisenberg actually says the ion may not be in the tube.
~It unlikly that any photons would be absorbed by a H+ ion
~The gas has too much empty space, permitting it to escape without a large number of photon collisions
~Small amount of hydrogen mass moves ensures very low performance even if it did work idealy.
Other technical issues:
~How do you create hydrogen ions? Which charge are they? Protons or Hydride Anions?
~What wavelength of laser light will you use?
~How are you going to power your laser efficently?
~How are you going to cool the thing?
~How will you maintain a neuteral charge on the ship?
Etc... your idea is not going to work. You continue to exibit no clear understanding of the physics involved "1 m/s, H2+, etc," and we have shown why your idea will not work. Your next post should be a major reworking of the concept to address the points listed in the various posts, or you shouldn't post at all.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
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Yes I should post. Ok it is H2- then.
~Why would it impart 1 m/sec of velocity from rest?
Cause physics says so.
~Heisenberg actually says the ion may not be in the tube.
Boy was he a whack job. Especially after we placed them in the tube.
~It unlikly that any photons would be absorbed by a H+ ion.
What about a H2- is there proof?
~The gas has too much empty space, permitting it to escape without a large number of photon collisions.
The whole crossection of the tube is filled with the beam so millions of collisions will occur.
~Small amount of hydrogen mass moves ensures very low performance even if it did work idealy.
Any charged ion would work even the massive ones.
~How are you going to cool the thing?
H2 has very effecient cooling capabilities it is used in almost all comercial generators.
~How are you going to power your laser efficently?
Solar panels or nuclear reactor.
~How will you maintain a neuteral charge on the ship?
Solar panels can Maintain the charge.
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It is quite clear that you don't know what you are talking about... read about subatomic physics and nuclear chemistry first, then find an introductory work about quantum mechanics.
~There is no H2- ion either
~You have not shown why it would have an acceleration of 1m/s nor why "physics says so"
~You called Werner Heisenberg, on of the smartest men who have lived in our time, a wacko or a liar. Not a good sign.
~The cross section of the gas molecules/ions is very small, it does not matter about the width of the laser beam
Technical:
~Hydrogen? Used to cool generators? Okay, now i'm going to say that you don't know anything about chemistry or electrical generators or subatomic/quantum physics at all. It would be STUPID to do that, the slightest leak and spark, BOOM!
~To make even a weak 1MW laser, you will require a about 20-40MW of electric power, obivously too much for solar, and such a reactor would have to produce >100MW thermal, dang big number... for that weeny little laser.
~Solar pannels do not maintain the charge of the vehicle themselves.
I'm tired of having to educate you about basic things which you should be learning yourself, go to the library and read a book or two, then come back to us.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]
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Why go to the library when I have the internet? That would be stupid, and a waste of time. Going to the library would be the Newtonian thing to do.
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I originally thought Errorist would further accelerate the ions with an electric field after ionizing them with a laser. This might not be as efficient as an ion engine but at least it would allow for more possible sources of fuel. Accelerating them with a laser entirely would be just stupid. You might as well shine a flashlight out the back of your ship, because even if the laser did accelerate them it would be with the exact same force the laser exerts back on the ship.
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Something is not right here. If a photon has a intersecting collision with a electron at a 45 degree angle the electron speeds away at near the speed of light and then emits another photon. The smaller mass of the photon accelerates the more massive electron to near the same velocity. How is this possible? It has been proven.
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"For every action there is an equal and oposit reaction" Netwton
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I agree but in this case it is not equal. The smaller mass accelerates the more massive particle to the same velocity.?????
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How does the more massive paricle interact with the ship? If it doesn't then then only force on the ship is the force exserted by the laser.
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If the electron particle is a million times more massisve than the photon then the reaction force should be a million times more than the photon if its new speed is near the speed of light.
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Work these problems out:
[http://pupgg.princeton.edu/~phys104/199 … node6.html]http://pupgg.princeton.edu/~phys104/199 … node6.html
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