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#1 2003-12-28 14:24:33

Scott G. Beach
Banned
Registered: 2002-07-08
Posts: 288

Re: The Magic Number is 150 - Maximum Size of Human Social Networks

The December 20, 2003 issue of New Scientist magazine contains an article titled "The Magic Number."  Anthropologist Meredith F. Small, the author of that article, notes that, "Modern hunters and gatherers typically live in clans of about 150 members (although they can range from 90 to 200)."  In that article, she quotes Robin Dunbar, who has stated that, "Hutterite communities in the United States split in two when they reach 150 because they claim they can't control the group by peer pressure alone when it goes beyond that number."

I have proposed the construction of a prototype Martian settlement named The City of Euthenia.  That city would have 100 neighborhoods, each of which would contain about 100 people, and the total population of the city would therefore be about 10,000. 

I designed these neighborhoods so that their residents could control their members by peer pressure.  The alternative to this is the establishment of governance systems that require police, prosecutors, judges, juries, jails, wardens, probation officers, parole boards, etc.

I have proposed that the Euthenia City Council be composed of one representative from each neighborhood.  The City Council would therefore have 100 members.  The Council would probably appoint a Sheriff and a few deputies and there would probably be one or two jail cells in the Sheriff's office.

These social designs are based on my assumption that humans are adapted to having social networks of up to 150 people. I believe that if we stay within this limit then we will be able to minimize the extent to which we rely on force to maintain a social order in which people can live in peace and security.

My plan for The City of Euthenia is posted on the web at http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743  A link to the Hutterite communities web site is included on the "Links" section.


"Analysis, whether economic or other, never yields more that a statement about the tendencies present in an observable pattern."  Joseph A. Schumpeter; Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy, 1942

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#2 2004-01-14 16:07:23

Pendragon
Banned
From: a million miles away from home
Registered: 2004-01-14
Posts: 25

Re: The Magic Number is 150 - Maximum Size of Human Social Networks

Two problems:

1)  Good luck trying to get a group of anysize to agree on anything.  People differ in their opinions and peer pressure won't make them agree in all cases.

2)  The reason we have a judicial system setup is to avoid mob rule.  If you did get a group of people who agreed (usually due to preselection of the members) the results could be horrible.  I suggest you read some history of events such as the Salem Witch Trials, Nazi Germany, etc.

3)  Aren't we taught in school not to listen to peer pressure  :;):

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#3 2004-01-15 00:29:03

Scott G. Beach
Banned
Registered: 2002-07-08
Posts: 288

Re: The Magic Number is 150 - Maximum Size of Human Social Networks

Pendragon:

You wrote, "People differ in their opinions and peer pressure won't make them agree in all cases."  I agree.  However, you have not specified how many people you believe should live in one neighborhood and how that might affect the number of police and jail cells that are needed to maintain a stable social order.  Should there only be 50 people in each neighborhood or 500?

You wrote, "If you did get a group of people who agreed (usually due to preselection of the members) the results could be horrible."  You are absolutely right.  However, the members of legislatures all over this planet reach agreements hundreds of times each day on a bewildering variety of issues and they are thereby able to keep their societies functioning "normally," although there are probably a number of civil wars going on right now. And the people caught up in those wars would probably agree that their situation is "horrible."  So what is your point?

You asked, "Aren't we taught in school not to listen to peer pressure?"  I was NEVER taught that lesson in school.  The teachers in public schools are, in general, not inclined to teach their pupils to think for themselves.  As public servants, they mostly teach, "swear allegiance, register for the draft, take this rifle, fly to Viet Nam, kill those people, do NOT question your orders." 

What happens to teachers who encourage their students to think for themselves?  This was a central issue  in the movie "Dead Poets Society."  (This movie did not have a happy ending.)


"Analysis, whether economic or other, never yields more that a statement about the tendencies present in an observable pattern."  Joseph A. Schumpeter; Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy, 1942

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#4 2004-01-15 15:09:26

Pendragon
Banned
From: a million miles away from home
Registered: 2004-01-14
Posts: 25

Re: The Magic Number is 150 - Maximum Size of Human Social Networks

Scott,

1)  To be honest, I am not sure of how many people should be in each neighborhood.  It would probably be best to let them form naturally and stay a little fluid.  The problem as I see it is that if we make them very large, then we might see social problems such as crime, but if we make them very small, we start limiting the creativity of the group as a whole.

2)  My point is that those legislators make comprimises not unilateral decisions.  By default those involved get their way in some points but not in others.  There is a danger when a system is geared towards the group more than the individual.  As for the society shameing its members into following the rules, mores, etc. an example would be China.  You see a society where people go to great lengths to hide their mistakes and where a majority would like a new government, they are to afraid to speak out.  "A tree cannot change the wind."

3)  Well, I am taking it from your remarks that we went to schools during different times.  Not after elementary school did we say the pledge everyday, I applied for the draft on my own (since I was applying for a military academy, dream of being an astronaut), there was no Vietnam war (it was over before I was born), and with the whole Drug War the message was say NO to peer pressure.

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