Life after Death

Adrian · 2004-01-14 10:24:03

What are your thoughts on this subject? Continued from [http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2134]Sending Astronauts One Way.

As I stated in the other thread, I don't believe in life after death. My feelings about religion and the afterlife are very close to those found in Philip Pullman's 'His Dark Materials' trilogy. In one part, he talks about how we should stop waiting for the 'Kingdom of Heaven' that will await us after death, and instead build a 'Republic of Heaven' here on Earth, while we are alive.

clark · 2004-01-14 10:29:19

As for life after death? Well, no. This is life. Whatever is after it, ain't this. :;):

Sounds sane. If you believe in an afterlife, it behooves you to play nice with others- afetrall, you might just end up spending eternity with them. [shudder]

Josh Cryer · 2004-01-14 10:38:27

Nope, but I don't plan to die, either. So it's no big deal.

Bill White · 2004-01-14 12:21:19

In the movie Contact, the Jodi Foster character often says she does not know whether there is life on other planets but if there isn't, "it sure seems like an awful waste of space."

Poet John Keats, in private correspondence, wrote that the "Chrystian religion (sic)" could avoid many difficulties and squabbles if only they decided to deem this world the "vale of soul-making" rather than the "vale of tears" - - in other words, souls are formed by and during corporeal life. If this is true, seems like an awful waste just to scrap all these souls after they are formed.

= = =

I also once read a comment asking why is it that the people who most fear that there is no "life after death" are often the same people who most readily complain they are "bored, with nothing to do" on an unexpected rainy afternoon.

Fear of Death? =or= fear of Life?

= = =

The cool yet terrible truth is that we all get to find out, everyone of us, sooner or later. . .

= = =

comment moved from the other thread.

Palomar · 2004-01-14 13:07:40

- in other words, souls are formed by and during corporeal life. If this is true, seems like an awful waste just to scrap all these souls after they are formed.
= = =
Fear of Death? =or= fear of Life?
= = =
The cool yet terrible truth is that we all get to find out, everyone of us, sooner or later. . .
= = =

*If souls exist. If.

As for your 2nd comment, I was reading a collection of short stories the other day; one of them was about a man angry to revenge the death of a woman he'd been in love with, believing alleged evil powers of the Baron of the Dark Tower had killed her. He was willing to face death and he was asked: "You are willing to face your death. But are you willing to face your life?" The suggestion being it's harder to face life. (Turns out the man himself had killed the woman when she'd rejected him; he blocked that out and blamed the Baron's supposed evil powers).

Your 3rd item: Yep. "Time cuts down all, both great and small."

--Cindy

::EDIT:: I'm not afraid of death.

What I does concern me, however, is -how- I will go. Most everyone wants to die peacefully, without pain, and in one's own home -- right?

clark · 2004-01-14 13:38:31

I want to die in a strangers home during some kinky S&M. ???
:laugh:
This is such a depressing subject. [sigh]

Josh Cryer · 2004-01-14 13:46:21

Really? I don't think death is that depressing. Death means change, which is a good thing. We die every day, theoretically speaking, as we lose about a thousand neurons a day. Do you think the chemicals in your body are those chemicals that were there when you were born? Nope... your skin... your stomach lining, etc, are all fresh. Chemicals you ate not even a few weeks ago.

On the topic of life and death, I was surprised to find recently that Robert Heinlein was cremated, rather than put into crynoic suspension. It's quite surprising to know that a scifi author who so enthusiastically wrote about cryonics, and imortality, for that matter, dismissed it at the most important time in his existance (and that would be, interestingly, the day of his death).

Rxke · 2004-01-14 14:00:07

I keep constantly changing my mind wether i'd be better off dead or alive...

I'm not exactly a manic depressive person but, enjoying life is kind of an alien concept to me.

But i want to live forever (sometimes), only to see where our knowledge leads us (Mars and beyond, AI, TOE...)
I'm curious about the 'universe', but i don't exactly enjoy living, except for the 'learning things' angle. (Hee hee, no i'm not a psychopath either)
Life is beautiful, because it's complex. Death is just entropy, not very interesting, so get out of life what you can, while you can... Our 'conscious state' is so absurdly short, it's *almost* irrelevant, still we as a human have done amazing things (some of us, anyway)`
Amazingly complex, amazingly stupid... I don't believe in amazingly good or bad, we're not *that* complex (heh)

Mad Grad Student · 2004-01-14 22:09:25

If this is true, seems like an awful waste just to scrap all these souls after they are formed.

Yep, cruel universe, ain't it. I honestly have no idea what the heck happens when you die, you can't really prove it positively or negatively. All I can say is that the soul, and by that I mean the concious part of your mind that makes all humans, dolphins, etc self-aware, isn't really a huge immaterial idea. I suppose you could describe it as being the resident of the body, except when the body dies, you go down with it, hopefully into an afterlife. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that the "soul" is something that can be manipulated in a material way, we just don't know how to put it in the body of a great white shark yet. :laugh:

I believe Cindy said "What I does concern me, however, is -how- I will go. Most everyone wants to die peacefully, without pain, and in one's own home -- right?." Nope, quick and pointless, that's the death for me. But seriously, I don't see how the way you die has any great effect on anything, I just hope I can mess with everyone's heads before I can go.

I don't follow with the school of logic that says since death is change it's automatically good. Change isn't necesserily good. Death is, well, death. You're gone, period. What fun is that? In any case, I don't think we should be dwelling on this too long, philosophy's great and all, but we should also focus on the things that matter, family, friends, discussions on weird NASA acronyms. Don't you agree?

Josh Cryer · 2004-01-14 22:59:19

Change is always good. Change is arguably what makes life worth living. Without change we'd be static balls of boringness. It wouldn't be pretty.

realmacaw · 2004-01-15 02:47:32

I'm sorry I brought up the subject of life after death in my other thread on Send Astronauts on a One Way Suicide Mission. I only brought it up to explain that since I've had experiences with it and know life after death exists I don't see it as morally a big deal if astronauts were sent on a one way suicide mission. We expect spies to sometimes kill themselves for the sake of the mission. If this is true, then perhaps there are morally accepted suicides (for the sake of a mission in which no other option is practical or best) and morally unaccpeted suicdes (the typical type for depression). Perhaps people clump them all together. Perhaps they are morally different and shouldn't be clumped together.

This group is much better at thinking about Mars issues than Life after Death. I have seen many spirits of people who have died. It doesn't look like a happy place with angels and people playing harps and everyone having complete full knowledge. Instead, most of the spirits seem fightened, tormented, some of them are tormentors. I have no idea if every spirit will be this way. I doubt it. I'm sure I'm only seeing the tiniest fraction of them. The majority I've seen are evil but not all. Their clothing style sucks. They usually dress in formal dark (often Polyester) church type clothing. I've also seen people who have died about 100 years ago in clothing of that time, such as I saw a fat woman in big black cotton dress of that era. Never have I seen any of them in Levis or casual clothing. They are always dressed formally. I'd be much cooler if they were white robes that glowed. Perhaps some do but almost never those I see. They also don't like you to see their face and they don't stay in one spot for more than about a second if they can tell you see them. They will watch you but if suddenly they realize you can see them you can see the fear that sweeps over them. One time this happened to a male spirit I saw. He was so frightened he dove forward just like we would if we were diving into water. But we would never do that on land since we'd land on our rib cage and it would really hurt or break bones. He did it in a church. What was interesting is gravity and all the other forces of physics seemed to react exactly the same to him as they do to us. I mean he dove forward and fell at the same rate we would. I saw him disappear before he hit the floor. So he obviously dove since he was caught off gaurd that I could see him and there was a reaction time to him disappearing and he didn't want to be seen so he dove to hide. Never can you see through one. They look just like we do but their matter is different, it is finer. You can tell they don't belong here since everything else is made up of hard matter, like your arm or a desk. There are not words in English to properly describe it. You can see them but their matter is finer. Does that mean they are like a "ghost" meaning a shadow or faint? Not at all. They are as distinct as we are. There is just something different about them, their matter is finer. That includes their clothing and everything. I've never seen one go through matter, such as door or wall. They appear and disappear. But they can play jokes on you such as walk a shoe across the floor with no one in it or turn a door nob or open a door or shake a glass full of ice. I've seen all of that. Do they reflect in a mirror and do they show up in a camera? I have no idea. I've been with people sometimes and they can see the spirits I see. Other times the people can't see them. Most of the time I feel them, not see them. But I still see them more than I'd like to.

When I feel them and not see them I know exactly where they were standing and which angle they were facing. It is like they leave an auroa my body can feel. My mother years ago saw a male spirit on the stairs. I didn't see it since I was in another room. I walked up the stairs and I knew immediately which stair and which side of the stair and what angle the spirit had been standing. I said, "Was he standing on this stair on this exact spot looking in this direction?" She said yes. That is how exact the built in meter is. But sometimes I'm consumed in something and not paying attention, such as playing the piano at night in the dark. I look over my shoulder and jump with a start because there is a male spirit standing behind me dressed in dark formal clothing. One instant they are there, the next they are gone. Only one has ever spoke to me and that was my grandfather. They others say nothing and don't seem to want to communicate. They seem to be watching, that's all. And most of them appear at night and not during the day. It is like the "veil" is thinner at night. (This is an expression. You see NO veil.) I have no explanation why this is. I know at night radio signals transfer a long way and in the day they don't transfer as far. I can call them in, push them out. I don't play with it much since it doesn't seem like something to play with. I can't call any particular spirit, at least I don't think I can. All I can do is crack open the veil and see whatever spirits are there. You wouldn't want to do it since most of them are evil. Perhaps this is because the good ones are off doing important things. That sounds like religion talking. I have no idea. All I know for sure is what I have experienced.

What bothers me is how easily frightened they are, how scared they are. Most people who believe in life after death think of Heaven as being a wonderful place. That is NOT at all what I'm seeing in these spirits. I can only hope they are in a holding place and it is not Heaven because it does not look nearly as nice as this life. I mean in this life people are happier and not so frightened and filled with fear. And we wear neater clothing designs.

I'm not offended at all by people who don't believe me or who don't believe in life after death. This life is short. Before long everyone dies and everyone will know there is life after death. I would just tell you to live this life to the FULLEST because the next existence doesn't look too good! Ha Ha. It may just be a temporary holding place but obviously spirits are in it at least 100s of our years or much longer. It doesn't look too good.

Go back to thinking about Mars.

Brian.

Bill White · 2004-01-15 09:31:59

Go back to thinking about Mars.

See today's New York Times. Scientist Paul Davies wrote a guest Op-Ed calling for a one way mission to Mars.

Mad Grad Student · 2004-01-16 18:36:48

Go back to thinking about Mars.

(Crazy Igor voice)Yes, master! Okay, I'll admit that life after death is pretty off-topic for a Mars forum, but that's what the area intitled "Free Chat" is for. And what do you know, we're in free chat! I'm done talking about this, but anyone else talking is fine by me.

Now, you have to understand that I'm going to be a little bit skeptical about your abilities, Realmacaw. I mean, put yourself in my position, it wouldn't be a good way to follow the scientific method to just assume what you say is correct. No offense or anything, I'm just being skeptical.

As for you Josh, how is change always good? I could prove this either technically or proverbially, but I'll go with the technical route for now. Let's use the Chernobyl power plant as an example. Okay, so everything's going fine with the reactor and then a little needle twitches on some gauge. Following procedures, the technicians lower in some graphite to stop the reactor, in other words something changed. Turns out that wasn't a good change, the reactor's top exploded pouring out radioactive gas, a positive result? Btw, 8,000 people died the process of containing it, overall it was an extremely bad change from the norm.

Now, you need some failures to learn, of course, but don't take it to the extreme. Yes, some change is good, but not all.

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