New Mars Forums
You are not logged in.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Announcement
#76 2004-01-07 12:54:38
- Josh Cryer
- Moderator
- Registered: 2001-09-29
- Posts: 3,830
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
clark, just talking to myself. 
Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.
Offline
Like button can go here
#77 2004-01-07 14:26:51
- Rxke
- Member
- From: Belgium
- Registered: 2003-11-03
- Posts: 3,669
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
I read somewhere speculation that the shuttle won't fly again until after the November elections.
Booh! Hiss! that'd be so... so... Ye-Olde-style-Soviet-plan-economy-ish
(couldn't find a better insult.)
You gotta launch when ready, not when politics dictate it. (Yeah i know, dream on...)
Offline
Like button can go here
#78 2004-01-07 15:13:32
- clark
- Member
- Registered: 2001-09-20
- Posts: 6,375
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
If you were a president contemplating a new space exploration initiative, would you want more unknowns or less, that might affect public opinion towards space exploration in a negative way?
Take the chinese as an example- they milked their launch for as much political capital as they could- safely. They didn't broadcast the mission live, and they controlled the media aspect in a manner that allows the politcal branch to reap maximum benefit.
That said, I doubt that NASA can hold off on shuttle launches until November (unless this is part of the Space Plan due soon) due to technical requirements for ISS. We need to finish ISS before we do anything else beyond LEO, which means that we still have to launch a few more modules.
And, if we're talking out loud, the recent success with Spirit was not the best moment to declare a new space intitiative. State of the Union will allow for maximum exsposure, and provide the politcal traction neccessary to get the programs accepted.
Also, as an aside, if you notice the behavior of the Administration, they don't like a lot of oversight or discussion about their pet programs. They generally reveal it after it is complete, then try to sprint it through Congress. It's worked so far, so why would they change it? Furthermore, Bush is better served to hold back on major announcements until a Democratic front runner is ascertained, that way you only get one person yelling what a bad idea it is, as opposed to nine different versions of why it's bad.
Offline
Like button can go here
#79 2004-01-07 16:03:39
- Josh Cryer
- Moderator
- Registered: 2001-09-29
- Posts: 3,830
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
This is one of those moments in blackjack when doubling down is advantageous.
Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.
Offline
Like button can go here
#80 2004-01-07 16:15:20
- Rxke
- Member
- From: Belgium
- Registered: 2003-11-03
- Posts: 3,669
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
Ok, but what kind of signal does this give to the taxpayers? (delaying launch)
We Do Not Really Trust The Shuttle To Come Back In One Piece.
'At least, not enough to risk my presidency on' 
Offline
Like button can go here
#81 2004-01-07 16:16:02
- clark
- Member
- Registered: 2001-09-20
- Posts: 6,375
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
Kenny Rogers sang it best, "You have to know when to hold them, and know when to fold them".
Offline
Like button can go here
#82 2004-01-07 16:25:35
- Josh Cryer
- Moderator
- Registered: 2001-09-29
- Posts: 3,830
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
Rxke, clue here, the taxpayers don't care about NASA...
Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.
Offline
Like button can go here
#83 2004-01-07 16:40:43
- Rxke
- Member
- From: Belgium
- Registered: 2003-11-03
- Posts: 3,669
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
They do, they see NASA as a waste of money... (I'd guess from what i read, i'm not an American)
And if they see something expensive that's ALSO 'not working' ... They might get mad...
(i'd better go to sleep)
Offline
Like button can go here
#84 2004-01-07 17:31:28
- Josh Cryer
- Moderator
- Registered: 2001-09-29
- Posts: 3,830
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
That's true... a lot do see NASA as a waste of money... but I'd say they're just non-responsive. They have a lot of apathy.
Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.
Offline
Like button can go here
#85 2004-01-07 17:57:47
- clark
- Member
- Registered: 2001-09-20
- Posts: 6,375
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
15 billion dollars is a lot to spend on something that tax payers don't 'care about'.
Speaking for SoCal here, but NASA and the space buisness has a LOT of support. Texas... Florida... hmm, three of the most populous states in the Union.
I think all the attention NASA is getting now ought to dispell this notion that NASA is unloved. The public simply wants NASA to be the NASA they grew up on: bold, inovative, creative, daring, and dare I say, successful.
Offline
Like button can go here
#86 2004-01-08 08:21:57
- Josh Cryer
- Moderator
- Registered: 2001-09-29
- Posts: 3,830
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
Space is expensive.
Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.
Offline
Like button can go here
#87 2004-01-08 09:21:02
- clark
- Member
- Registered: 2001-09-20
- Posts: 6,375
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
The unknown usually is.
Offline
Like button can go here
#88 2004-01-08 09:28:55
- Rxke
- Member
- From: Belgium
- Registered: 2003-11-03
- Posts: 3,669
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
clich?, i know, but: ignorance is even more expensive in the long run. Today a government simply cannot afford NOT to give money to (expensive?) science...
Offline
Like button can go here
#89 2004-01-08 10:44:50
- clark
- Member
- Registered: 2001-09-20
- Posts: 6,375
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
i thought ignorance was bliss.
but I know this. which explains why i am so unhappy. 
Offline
Like button can go here
#90 2004-01-08 20:06:54
- Josh Cryer
- Moderator
- Registered: 2001-09-29
- Posts: 3,830
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
Bush to Announce Missions to Mars, Moon
PALM BEACH GARDENS, Fla. - President Bush will announce plans next week to send Americans to Mars and back to the moon and to establish a long-term human presence on the moon, senior administration officials said Thursday night.
Bush won't propose sending Americans to Mars anytime soon; rather, he envisions preparing for the mission more than a decade from now, one official said.
Link.
---
Bleh, if fluff talk makes me lose the bet, I'll be very disappointed. Kudos to you, though, clark, if it's determined that you won.
Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.
Offline
Like button can go here
#91 2004-01-08 20:11:51
- Bill White
- Member
- Registered: 2001-09-09
- Posts: 2,114
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
Bush to Announce Missions to Mars, Moon
PALM BEACH GARDENS, Fla. - President Bush will announce plans next week to send Americans to Mars and back to the moon and to establish a long-term human presence on the moon, senior administration officials said Thursday night.
Bush won't propose sending Americans to Mars anytime soon; rather, he envisions preparing for the mission more than a decade from now, one official said.
Link.
---
Bleh, if fluff talk makes me lose the bet, I'll be very disappointed. Kudos to you, though, clark, if it's determined that you won.
Funding is the key. Is the critical funding now, or in the out years, after 2008?
However, if the stated goal is humans to Mars, eventually, then research can be legitimately directed at that goal.
Details, we need details, to decide whether this will be fluff or substance. But don't forget that immigration bill. Even I am impressed with President Bush's willingness to take bold risks.
Offline
Like button can go here
#92 2004-01-08 20:23:12
- Josh Cryer
- Moderator
- Registered: 2001-09-29
- Posts: 3,830
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
Well, clark will probably argue that funding has nothing to do with it (and that the whole thing is based upon an announcement rather than an actually working towards the goals)... but we'll have to see what Adrian says.
Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.
Offline
Like button can go here
#93 2004-01-08 21:45:24
- Josh Cryer
- Moderator
- Registered: 2001-09-29
- Posts: 3,830
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
Where can I buy some good $50 wine online? 
Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.
Offline
Like button can go here
#94 2004-01-08 21:53:38
- Josh Cryer
- Moderator
- Registered: 2001-09-29
- Posts: 3,830
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
Oh, hah, it's only $20-30 wine that the bet is for (forgot my own bet)? Huh. How cute.
Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.
Offline
Like button can go here
#95 2004-01-08 23:22:23
- Bill White
- Member
- Registered: 2001-09-09
- Posts: 2,114
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
Well, clark will probably argue that funding has nothing to do with it (and that the whole thing is based upon an announcement rather than an actually working towards the goals)... but we'll have to see what Adrian says.
Josh, notice that the article says the US may consider a lunar mission flown on Ariane.
Wowza!
If President Bush makes it legitimate for Americans to "fly French" could we add some strap-ons to Ariane and fly MarsDirect from Kouru?
Offline
Like button can go here
#96 2004-01-08 23:39:42
- Josh Cryer
- Moderator
- Registered: 2001-09-29
- Posts: 3,830
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
Robert would probably know that moer than me (I don't think so, though, because I think the Saturn rockets, which Robert has discussed on several ocassions, have far higher lift than the Ariane 5, but don't quote me on that).
But I do think it's quite funny that Bush is going after a French-made rocket.
Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.
Offline
Like button can go here
#97 2004-01-09 00:03:28
- Bill White
- Member
- Registered: 2001-09-09
- Posts: 2,114
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
Well, clark will probably argue that funding has nothing to do with it (and that the whole thing is based upon an announcement rather than an actually working towards the goals)... but we'll have to see what Adrian says.
Josh, notice that the article says the US may consider a lunar mission flown on Ariane.
Wowza!
If President Bush makes it legitimate for Americans to "fly French" could we add some strap-ons to Ariane and fly MarsDirect from Kouru?
Disregard. Ariane 5 is too small.
Offline
Like button can go here
#98 2004-01-09 07:11:04
- Shaun Barrett
- Member
- From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
- Registered: 2001-12-28
- Posts: 2,843
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
Without wishing to get off topic here, can someone tell me in 50 words or less (preferably less! ) what President Bush's new immigration bill says?
I'm not wanting to kick-start some kind of political thread or anything like that, just curious that's all.
The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down. - Rita Rudner
Offline
Like button can go here
#99 2004-01-09 08:08:09
- Josh Cryer
- Moderator
- Registered: 2001-09-29
- Posts: 3,830
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
I can sum it up in one word, Shaun.
Pandering.
Basically, everyone who is here now can stay for awhile, but they must be taxed for whatever work they do. This panders to the pro-immigration people very simply, but it doesn't solve many issues and it potentially opens new ones. For example, the employeers aren't required to accept these new permitted immigrants under labor law, so for many employeers nothing changes.
Immigration is a totally politically charged issue. Look at that Australian immigration debacle which turned politics...
Oh, oops, don't mean to get off topic either. :;):
Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.
Offline
Like button can go here
#100 2004-01-09 09:03:09
- Bill White
- Member
- Registered: 2001-09-09
- Posts: 2,114
Re: A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion
Well, clark will probably argue that funding has nothing to do with it (and that the whole thing is based upon an announcement rather than an actually working towards the goals)... but we'll have to see what Adrian says.
Actually, Josh, its worse than that.
President Bush will boldly call for Mars (clark wins the bet!) and as part of his "Mars plan" dismantle the tools needed to actually get humans to Mars within the next few decades.
Offline
Like button can go here