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#1 2026-09-02 17:50:40
- tahanson43206
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Acetate Manufacture
This topic is inspired by posts created by Void, Calliban and by RobertDyck.
It appears that acetate is a word that applies to more than one molecule, so this topic is available for clarification of various molecules that are classified as "acetate" for industrial purposes.
The purpose of ** this ** topic is to offer a way for NewMars members to build up a body of knowledge sufficient to enable an individual to produce acetate (in one of it's forms) and to sell it in the open market.
A Google search revealed a going price of $340 (or more) per ton for one of the molecule types.
Other molecule types are selling for quite a bit more.
The premise of ** this ** topic is that a small producer using renewable energy can create a ton of product and find a market.
Posts to this topic would (or could) include description of products, description of possible manufacturing methods, and possible marketing methods.
As far as I know in September of 2026, we have no active members who would be interested in developing this topic, but we (NewMars) are open to registration of new members who want to make a contribution.
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#2 2026-09-02 17:51:13
- tahanson43206
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Re: Acetate Manufacture
This post is reserved for an index to posts that may be contributed by NewMars members.
Index:
Post #7: Void on organic matter
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#3 2026-09-02 19:28:49
- tahanson43206
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Re: Acetate Manufacture
This post contains an opening query of Gemini ... this query resulted in a split... I'll paste both versions after this post
I would like to offer a series to our readers about manufacture of acetate. This is intended to be a spinoff from a primary discussion about how recent research has shown that certain plants can grow nicely in an environment without much sunlight
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#4 2026-09-02 19:29:44
- tahanson43206
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Re: Acetate Manufacture
This is response A...
Choice A
The concept of growing crops heterotrophically using acetate as a carbon source—often powered by renewable energy through electrochemical conversion of carbon dioxide—is a fascinating area of research in sustainable agriculture and food production.When framing this series, clarifying the distinction between the chemical term "acetate" and its industrial forms will provide a strong foundation for your readers.
1. Defining "Acetate" in Chemical vs. Industrial Contexts
To structure the series clearly, it helps to distinguish the main ways "acetate" is used in industry:Acetate Salt Solutions (The Agricultural Growth Medium): In plant biology research (such as dark-photosynthesis or heterotrophic crop growth), "acetate" refers to standard acetate salts or diluted acetic acid neutralized to a bio-available pH (typically sodium acetate, potassium acetate, or ammonium acetate). Plants utilize the acetate anion (CH
3COO
−
) directly in metabolic pathways like the glyoxylate cycle.Acetic Acid (The Chemical Precursor): Industrially, liquid acetic acid (CH
3COOH) is the primary source of acetate ions. Concentrated acetic acid (glacial acetic acid) is hazardous to handle, but when diluted and neutralized with a base like potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide, it forms the liquid growth media used in agricultural experiments.
Cellulose Acetate (The Synthetic Material): In commercial manufacturing, "acetate" often refers to cellulose acetate—a plastic/polymer used for textiles, films, and eyeglass frames made by reacting wood pulp with acetic anhydride. This is entirely distinct from the soluble nutrients used in biological applications.
2. Large-Scale vs. On-Farm Acetate Production
Your observation regarding existing manufacturing scales is accurate. Commercial acetic acid is produced at massive petrochemical scales (millions of tons annually worldwide), primarily via methanol carbonylation (the Monsanto or Cativa processes), which requires high temperatures, fossil fuel feedstocks, and heavy industrial catalysts.For a farm-scale or localized distributed production model, the technology pathways look quite different:
Pathway A: Biological & Fermentation Pathways
Acetogenic Fermentation: Microorganisms (acetogens like Clostridium ljungdahlii) can convert synthesis gas (a mix of CO, CO
2, and H
2) or organic sugars directly into acetic acid.
Traditional Oxidation: Standard two-stage fermentation—converting agricultural biomass or sugars into ethanol via yeast, followed by aerobic oxidation to acetic acid using acetic acid bacteria (Acetobacter)—is the established, decentralized method for making vinegar (dilute acetic acid).
Pathway B: Electro-catalytic / Direct Solar Pathways
CO
2Electrolysis: Recent breakthroughs in artificial photosynthesis use renewable electricity (solar or wind) to electrolyze carbon dioxide and water directly into acetate. This process utilizes specialized copper-based or bimetallic catalysts to yield concentrated acetate feeds, which can then feed biological systems (plants, algae, or fungi) without relying on traditional field-based photosynthesis.
3. Suggested Series Structure
To guide your readers from high-level concepts down to practical economic realities, consider structuring the series into four main parts:Part 1: The Science of Acetate-Fed Crops
Overview of electro-agriculture and heterotrophic plant growth.
Clarifying terminology: Acetate ions (CH
3COO
−
) vs. Acetic Acid vs. Cellulose Acetate.Part 2: How Commercial Acetate is Made Today
Industrial synthesis (methanol carbonylation) vs. biological fermentation.
Scale, capital costs, and purity requirements for agricultural vs. industrial grades.
Part 3: Distributed & Renewable Production Pathways
Using farm-scale renewable power (solar/wind) for electrochemical CO
2reduction.
Fermentation of local agricultural byproducts into acetate salts.
Part 4: Quality, Safety, and Market Realities
Requirements for "premium/agricultural grade" acetate (e.g., controlling heavy metals, sodium build-up in soil, and balancing pH using potassium or ammonium bases).
Storage, transport, and economic feasibility for local production.
Let me know which of these angles or pathways you would like to delve into first for your inaugural piece!
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#5 2026-09-02 19:31:07
- tahanson43206
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Re: Acetate Manufacture
This is response B
Choice B
This is a fascinating intersection of modern plant biology and distributed chemical manufacturing. You are referring to recent research in heterotrophic or mixotrophic agriculture—often called "dark photosynthesis"—where plants, algae, or fungi are fed organic carbon sources like acetate directly to their roots or growth media, bypassing or supplementing traditional photosynthesis.To structure a compelling, technically sound series for your readers, it helps to first clarify what "acetate" means in this context and then map out the practical manufacturing pathways.
Clarifying the Chemistry: What "Acetate" Means Here
For agricultural application, plants and microalgae cannot directly utilize solid polymers like cellulose acetate (used in textiles and plastics). Instead, they require bio-available soluble acetate, typically in one of two forms:Acetic Acid (CH
3COOH): The active acid component (dilute forms are standard vinegar). While useful, unbuffered acid can drastically lower soil or media pH, requiring careful neutralization.
Acetate Salts (e.g., Potassium Acetate or Sodium Acetate): Formed by neutralizing acetic acid with a base (like potassium hydroxide). Potassium acetate (CH
3COOK) is often the preferred liquid fertilizer input because plants readily consume both the acetate (for carbon/energy) and the potassium (a macronutrient).
Scaling Down: Industrial vs. On-Farm Production
You are correct that global commercial acetic acid is produced in massive centralized facilities (yielding millions of tons annually) primarily via the methanol carbonylation process (the Monsanto or Cativa processes). These require high temperatures, high pressures, noble metal catalysts, and fossil fuel synthesis gas inputs—making them unsuitable for small-scale or distributed farm production.For a farm or localized facility producing ~1 ton batches using renewable power (solar/wind), three primary technological pathways exist:
1. Biological Pathways (Fermentation & Acetogenesis)
Traditional Aerobic Fermentation: Two-stage conversion where sugars/starches are fermented into ethanol (via yeast), which is then oxidized into acetic acid by Acetobacter bacteria (the traditional vinegar process).Gas Fermentation / Acetogenesis: Specialized anaerobic microorganisms (acetogens like Clostridium ljungdahlii) consume carbon dioxide (CO
2) and hydrogen gas (H
2) to directly generate acetic acid.
Energy Integration: Renewable electricity powers an electrolyzer to split water into O
2and H
2. The H
2is fed alongside captured CO
2into a bioreactor.
2. Electrochemical Pathways (Direct CO
2Reduction)
CO
2Electrolysis: Emerging electrochemical reactors use specialized catalysts to directly convert carbon dioxide, water, and renewable electricity into acetic acid/acetate in a single continuous step.
Pros/Cons: This directly aligns with the "dark photosynthesis" paradigm by using solar energy to turn air and water into plant food without agricultural land. However, current commercial hardware for direct CO2-to-acetate reduction is still transitioning from pilot-scale to mass market.
3. Thermochemical Pathways
Pyrolysis & Syngas: Biomass (crop waste) is heated without oxygen to produce bio-oil and synthesis gas, which can yield pyroligneous acid (wood vinegar) or be catalytically processed. This is less reliant on wind/solar power and more on local biomass availability.Strategic Framework for Your Series
To make this topic structured and easy to navigate for your audience, you could break the series down into five focused articles:Part 1: The Science of "Dark Photosynthesis"
How plants uptake and metabolize acetate.
Distinguish between pure acetic acid, agricultural acetate salts (potassium vs. sodium), and insoluble acetate polymers.
Part 2: The On-Farm Energy & Carbon Budget
What does "1 ton of acetate" actually represent in terms of energy (kWh of solar/wind), water, and carbon dioxide inputs?
Comparing land area needed for solar panels vs. traditional crop land.
Part 3: The Fermentation & Bio-Electrochemical Route
Combining water electrolysis (H
2production) with acetogenic gas fermentation.
Hardware requirements, safety considerations for handling compressed hydrogen, and purity standards for biological growth media.
Part 4: Downstream Processing & Quality Control
Concentrating dilute acetic acid solutions (e.g., membrane filtration, distillation).
Neutralizing to high-purity potassium acetate.
Testing for impurities, heavy metals, or unwanted microbial byproducts that could harm sensitive plant roots.
Part 5: Economics, Scale, and Market Outlook
Capital expenditure (CapEx) for small-scale modular equipment vs. operational savings.
Target markets for premium, zero-sunlight or indoor vertical farming inputs.
Would you like to draft an outline for Part 1 focusing on plant acetate uptake and chemistry?
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#6 2026-09-02 19:44:00
- tahanson43206
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Re: Acetate Manufacture
I asked Gemini to render it's replies in BBCode and here is an attempt ...
Part 1: Defining "High Quality" Acetate for Dark-Photosynthesis and Agriculture
When discussing acetate as a growth medium for crops, it is important to clearly define what chemical form is required. In industrial chemistry, "acetate" can refer to solvents, plastics, or concentrated acids. In biological systems, however, plants utilize the acetate anion directly as a carbon and energy source.
Chemical Forms of Acetate
Acetic Acid (CH3COOH): The primary industrial precursor. In its pure form (glacial acetic acid), it is highly corrosive and dangerous to plants due to its extreme acidity.[/]
Acetate Salts (KC2H3O2, NH4C2H3O2, NaC2H3O2): Formed when acetic acid is neutralized with a base. These salts dissolve in water to release the bio-available acetate anion (C2H3O2-).[/]
Cellulose Acetate: A synthetic polymer used in plastics and textiles. This material is non-soluble and has no utility as a plant nutrient.
Key Quality Factors for Agricultural Media
To serve as a premium growth medium, the manufactured acetate solution must meet specific biological criteria:
Cation Balance: Neutralizing acetic acid with sodium hydroxide yields sodium acetate (NaC2H3O2). While plants can absorb this, excess sodium leads to soil salinization and toxic ion buildup in closed hydroponic loops. Using potassium hydroxide (KOH) or ammonium hydroxide (NH4OH) yields potassium acetate or ammonium acetate, providing essential plant macronutrients (potassium and nitrogen) alongside the carbon source.[/]
pH Buffering: Plant roots and tissue cultures operate effectively within a narrow pH range (typically 5.5 to 6.5). The medium must be carefully balanced to prevent root shock.[/]
Purity and Byproducts: Electrochemical or industrial synthesis of acetate can sometimes leave behind unreacted catalysts, trace heavy metals, or unwanted side-products like formate or methanol. A "premium" agricultural acetate must undergo adequate filtration or separation to ensure zero phytotoxicity.
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#7 2026-09-02 19:45:55
- Void
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Re: Acetate Manufacture
My material was more to say that organic matter, which has the similar nature as a fuel, may allow extraction of Hydrogen more easily than to get it from water which is not a fuel. But I have also reasoned that Acetate, may be obtainable also using an electrolier, as you can work with water and CO2, and extract Acetate and Oxygen using an Electrolizer.
But if an electrolier can create Acetate from organic Matter, you may avoid the creation of Oxygen, and would perhaps create a result of Acetate and a residue which may serve as a fertilizer. I do not know this, I just suspect it.
But if Hydrogen can come from organic matter as I also speculate and have read, you can run precision fermentation and cellular agriculture with that. However, Acetate is desirable as perhaps some vascular food crops can benefit from it.
Ending Pending 
Be careful what you wish for.
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#8 2026-09-03 05:39:07
- Calliban
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Re: Acetate Manufacture
Methanol will be an important liquid fuel on Mars. It is energy dense, can be stored as liquid at sub-atmospheric pressure and has a melting point of -97.6°C. This means that on Mars, methanol tanks can sit at or close to atmospheric pressure. The vapour pressure of methanol reaches 6mbar (4.5mm hg) somewhere between -16 and -44°C.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_(data_page)
These are typical Martian temperatures. We probably don't need to worry about methanol freezing either.
If we are producing methanol on an industrial scale as fuel, then diverting some percentage into acetic acid production is a natural extension of the methanol manufacturing process. On Mars, we may need to use solar or nuclear power to do that. But if we can find large subterranean hydrogen deposits, then nature has already provided the energy source needed to drive the process. If there are deposits of subsurface methane, then steam reforming can yield hydrogen that drives the whole process.
H2 + CO2 = H2O + CO
2H2 + CO = CH3OH
CH3OH +CO = CH3COOH
So 4 mols of H2 are needed to produce 1 mol acetic acid.
Ammonium acetate offers the obvious advantage that it carries the nitrogen needed to build peptide bonds and proteins.
CH3COOH (aq) + NH4OH (aq) = COONH4 (aq) + H2O
Last edited by Calliban (2026-09-03 05:56:19)
"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."
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