You are not logged in.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Announcement
Pages: 1
#1 2026-05-20 09:00:38
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,521
Artificial Egg / Womb
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE Quote:
World’s Most Advanced Artificial Egg Hatches Chicks
YouTube
Colossal Biosciences
8.3K views
The other path is wombs that evolve to help premature babies.
The question of brain. The birth canal restriction may limit it. The baby brain expands into an adult brain.
Growing babies in incubators will make humans more like birds.
Although even female birds do get pregnant, but they lay an egg.
In humans a great burden is on the female for this particular task. The assignment of the task historically is somewhat involuntary.
Then develops males that may or may not want to assist during and after. Then social structures are created which usually encourage the males and non-breeders to sometimes provide assistance.
In my opinion the body to head ratio is important. The body has to be sufficient to provide for the contents of the head.
I believe that a factor that many males have as desire is a large heat relative to body. So, then they might be attracted to females that have that attribute. But obviously the hip and birth canal structure of the female argues against that.
If humans cease to give natural birth but do so in artificial wombs, then this contest of desires and necessities is ended.
But then still the body has to be fit enough to provide for the head. In a lower gravity field, perhaps head size might be permitted to be larger, but still the body has to provide sufficiency to the head.
I am not advocating for anything, I expect to be history in 10-20 years, so it is not for me to say. But I am curios on my way out.
Puzzling on this might help to understand what bipedal aliens might be like.
The need for wide hips gone, the need for breasts also perhaps gone.
Without a social pressure to maintain such things they might atrophy.
Further, the need for robust bodies would also perhaps have pressure to go away.
Not really my problem, as I have explained. But I am happy that they may be able to revive some bird species.
I put this in chat because, it is scientists who are doing the science. We are bystanders for the most part and might comment on it if we wish and if we are allowed to.
Ending Pending 
Last edited by Void (2026-05-20 09:19:33)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
Offline
Like button can go here
#2 2026-05-20 09:03:27
- NewMarsMember
- Member
- Registered: 2019-02-17
- Posts: 1,954
Re: Artificial Egg / Womb
This post is reserved for an index to posts that may be contributed by NewMars members.
Index:
This appears to me to be an important field of investigation.
Index:
(th)
Recruiting High Value members for NewMars.com/forums, in association with the Mars Society
Offline
Like button can go here
#3 2026-05-20 10:13:02
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,521
Re: Artificial Egg / Womb
I didn't intend it from the start, but here now, The Coocoo Boy Game might be analyzed.
Risk, Reward, Responsibility or alternately the exclusion of such.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo
Quote:
The cuckoo is a medium-sized bird known for its distinctive "coo-coo" call and unique reproductive strategy of brood parasitism.
Overview
Cuckoos belong to the family Cuculidae, which includes around 150 species across 33 genera, such as roadrunners, koels, malkohas, coucals, and anis. They are generally medium-sized, slender birds with long tails and zygodactyl feet (two toes forward, two backward), which help them grip branches. Most species are arboreal, though some, like roadrunners, are terrestrial.
Wikipedia
+2
Distinctive Call
The cuckoo’s call, often described as "coo-coo," is iconic in Europe and inspired cuckoo clocks. Male cuckoos produce the classic "cuck-oo" sound, while females may emit a "kwik-kwik-kwik" call. These calls are often more noticeable than the birds themselves, as many species are shy and inhabit dense vegetation.
Audubon
+1
Reproduction and Brood Parasitism
Many cuckoo species, particularly the Common Cuckoo (Cuculus canorus), are brood parasites, laying their eggs in the nests of other birds. The unsuspecting host birds then raise the cuckoo chicks, often at the expense of their own young. Some species, however, build their own nests and raise their young independently.
Audubon
+2
Habitat and Distribution
Cuckoos are found worldwide, except Antarctica, with the greatest diversity in the Old World tropics. They inhabit a variety of ecosystems, including forests, woodlands, grasslands, shrublands, and even arid regions. Migratory species, like the Common Cuckoo, travel across Europe and Asia, occasionally reaching western Alaska.
Britannica
+2
Physical Characteristics
Cuckoos vary in size from the tiny little bronze cuckoo (17 g, 15 cm) to large species like the Channel-billed Cuckoo (630 g, 63 cm),. Most have drab gray or brown plumage, though some tropical species display bright colors or iridescence. Their long tails aid in flight and maneuvering through trees or on the ground.
Wikipedia
+1
Cultural Significance
Cuckoos have been part of human culture for centuries. In Europe, they symbolize spring and cuckoldry, appearing in literature such as Shakespeare’s works. In India, they are sacred to Kamadeva, the god of desire, while in Japan, they symbolize unrequited love.
Wikipedia
Notable Species
Common Cuckoo (Cuculus canorus): Famous for brood parasitism and egg mimicry.
1
Oriental Cuckoo (Cuculus optatus): Migratory, breeds in Siberia and northern Asia.
1
Black-billed and Yellow-billed Cuckoos: Found in American forests, insectivorous.
1
Mangrove Cuckoo: Adapted to coastal habitats.
1
African Emerald Cuckoo: Iridescent tropical species.
1
Channel-billed Cuckoo: Largest parasitic cuckoo, found in Australia.
1Cuckoos are fascinating birds, combining unique vocalizations, diverse habitats, and remarkable reproductive strategies, making them a captivating subject for birdwatchers and naturalists alike.
Although technically it is the female that practices the parasitism in this bird type.
The problem with abandoning monogamy, is that the male is tested for promiscuity as his defining trait.
I don't think that societies that practice promiscuity or too much polygamy can prosper long term, because I expect that they will preferentially breed Coocoo Boys and not Capable Men.
I believe that I.Q. and prosperity are at stake in this matter.
If you cant to and can then prove me wrong.
The reason I brought this in here is because I thought for a moment that artificial wombs might get rid of Coocoo Boy breeding, but of course we have already had doctors play Coocoo Boy with someone else woman.
Although gene tests might reveal this now.
Leaving out Eugenics, with an artificial womb and gene testing, it might be possible to test a family unit for its relative fitness.
With Eugenics, then the test will be a false one, because the director of breeding may very well have an unfit notion of evaluating fitness.
The two ideas of Superman are:
1) NAZI" get a perfect man and clone him endlessly.
2) Gloden Man: Find the perfect blend of genes from all races and clone that perfect pattern endlessly.
Both are stupid, as You cannot properly judge "Perfect", and you cannot hold all possible human attributes in one cloned pattern.
Some people are impressed by "Coocoo Boys", I am not.
I believe that it is the path to poverty.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-05-20 10:25:58)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
Offline
Like button can go here
#4 2026-05-20 14:38:38
- RobertDyck
- Moderator
- From: Winnipeg, Canada
- Registered: 2002-08-20
- Posts: 8,426
- Website
Re: Artificial Egg / Womb
Well, various genes are interconnected in surprising ways. Humans have a damaged gene for jaw muscles. Gorillas have large jaw muscles that attach to a fin of bone on the top of the skull, called a sagittal crest. This gives gorillas very strong bite. Chimpanzees don't have the sagittal crest, but their temporalis muscle covers most of the side of their skull. Gorilla skulls must fuse very early in baby development, which limits brain growth. Humans have smaller temporalis muscle attachment to the skull, allowing the skull of a newborn baby to be not fused. Left and right frontal bone plates (forehead), left and right parietal bone plates, occipital bone (back of skull), left and right temporal bones, all separate. Temporal bones are attached and part of cheek bones, with temporalis muscle attached to the temporal bone. But separate skull bone plates allow a human baby brain to grow, and the skull "floats" on the brain. Human baby skull fuses between 18 and 24 months after birth. This adaptation allows the brain to be larger at 24 months than at birth. Again, weak jaw muscles were required to allow this.
So I don't think change to "egg" is required for larger brain. For one, both ancient humans and neanderthals had 25% larger brain volume than today. At least at birth. Smaller brain is a symptom of domestication. Domesticated dogs have smaller brains than wolves. Appears humans have domesticated themselves. But again, 25% larger adult brain volume is possible without changing to "eggs". Evidenced by the fact humans used to have a brain that size.
Offline
Like button can go here
#5 2026-05-20 14:57:32
- RobertDyck
- Moderator
- From: Winnipeg, Canada
- Registered: 2002-08-20
- Posts: 8,426
- Website
Re: Artificial Egg / Womb
An interesting point of trivia. Humans sort-of grow an egg. Chicken eggs have a membrane inside the shell. This is directly analogous to the human amniotic sack. Chicken eggs also have two chalazae (singular chalaza), which attack the yoke to the membrane. Human umbilical cord is analogous. Chalazae keep tether the yoke so it stays in the centre of the egg. My contention is the umbilical cord evolved from the chalazae. Mammals produce eggs, they just don't produce a hard shell, and rather than lay the egg, mammals grow a placenta that exchanges nutrients between mother and baby. Birds have to provide a lot of nutrients to an egg, both yoke and albumen. Mammals don't do that, instead feed the embryo/fetus throughout gestation. This allows the fetus to be carried inside the mother's body, so protected from predators. Mother can run away, relocate to escape danger. Eggs cannot.
Birds such as chickens must lay a large egg relative to adult body size. Chicken eggs are 5.5 to 6.5cm diameter. Laying chickens are 1.5 to 2.5kg body mass (3.5 to 5.5 pounds). Human baby head is 34-35cm circumference (~13.5 inches). It's oval, width is about 9.4cm (3.7 inches). In Canada, an average woman weighs 70.1kg (155 pounds). In the US 77.5kg (170.8 pounds). Chicken ratio of birth canal to adult mass is 6cm/2kg = 3 cm/kg. Human birth canal to adult mass is 9.4cm/70.1kg = 0.134 cm/kg.
So I don't see how changing to an egg would be beneficial. Will humans become dependant on an artificial womb?
Offline
Like button can go here
#6 2026-05-20 18:13:55
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,521
Re: Artificial Egg / Womb
I appreciate that you take the time Robert.
Without modern medicine, girls/women sometimes died in childbirth. That then limited the size of the baby heat at birth. And yes it also required that the baby would grow a larger head after birth.
You could keep expanding the bone structure of the lower body, but then that might make it hard for her to run away from lions or to do work.
Because of this I expect that there has been pressure for the brain to become more efficient. (Maybe).
Also, I am under the impression that a pregnancy sucks a lot of things out of a woman's body such as Calcium, which could be negative to her health.
I am only speculating that over time artificial wombs may become better and better in result. I am not recommending it, I am just making a speculation that this may come and may alter the nature of humans.
I have thought that intelligent life might do better as Marsupial. But reality says Placental is better, it seems.
I am willing to entertain any more observations you may choose to offer.
Ending Peiding
Last edited by Void (2026-05-20 18:22:37)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
Offline
Like button can go here
#7 2026-05-20 21:46:33
- RobertDyck
- Moderator
- From: Winnipeg, Canada
- Registered: 2002-08-20
- Posts: 8,426
- Website
Re: Artificial Egg / Womb
Well, I described on this forum how an artificial womb could be made. Then an organization claimed they were working on it, almost exactly as I described. But they made a few mistakes. It looked to me to be a scam. Sooner or later someone will make it happen. There are a number of people who want this. Some women don't want to carry a baby inside themselves. Armies could be grown. Prejudiced people could practice eugenics, only growing babies of the race they think is better. My primary concern is if humans become dependant on technology for something as basic as reproduction, that becomes unstable. Our race becomes dependant on that technology, and all the supply chains it requires.
Again, yes, I would like to see this technology become reality. It could help some couples who cannot have a baby any other way. But I am afraid if the human race becomes dependant on it, then what happens with the next economic downturn? Civilization has experienced many complete collapses. When the Roman Empire collapsed, Europe fell into the Dark Ages. Before that, the Bronze Age Collapse. Before that, the Akkad Empire collapsed. Just one empire, but a 300 year drought does nasty things.
Sorry if I'm being negative. An artificial womb would be a great idea.
Offline
Like button can go here
#8 2026-05-21 05:01:34
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,521
Re: Artificial Egg / Womb
Your opinion has value, (In my opinion).
At this point the technology of egg, seems to be approaching a capability.
Humans are already experimenting with the Marsupial model, when they put premature babies into incubators. That technology is also improving. When you do that though you are expanding the gene pool to now include those with less ability to follow the historically mandated path of human reproduction. Previously nature prohibited that.
We also have artificial milk, so that is being altered. Precision fermentation is likely to do that even better.
Supplemental assistive labor which previously might be of non-pregnant family or friends, are being replaced by hospital, and will be further replaced by robot labor.
I am analyzing this more as an observer than a judge.
As for the rise and fall of civilizations, I think it is due to both internal and external factors.
A factor like soils. If a civilization has fallen with a population drop, then soils might lie fallow and become partially restored. Then a revival might be fueled by soil that can do more, for a while. Bubonic Plague and the Mongols might have stimulated episodes like that.
As for an example that I have lived in. The early American school system has been regarded as inferior, and maybe it was in some ways. It could have been better. But at a certain point industrialists adapted Prussian Military thinking. The greatest benefit to their intentions was that commoner boys be trained to be factory workers, and that girls may learn to provide some production of wealth but even more to pump out babies. Humiliations for boys to break their spirit might increase their obedience. It was said outright that there was no desire for creative people, rather they wanted obedient worker flesh robots for factories. And it did provide wealth.
This then allowed ruling classes to develop a false sense of their own intelligence. They became specialized in a type(s) of intelligence. So then a deviation from the original breeding process where a narrow set of skills (Royal Skills) would extract the maximum amount of resources.
In continuing this, they are losing their ability to be what the society was prior to "Royalty" establishing an excessive dominance.
This may be being corrected now, thankfully. If robots can become tutors, then common people will not have to go into training rooms as children where 30 or so students are encouraged to bend each others psyche's to generate white and blue collar types for the factory systems. If life extension does expand along with health extension, then a longer childhood can be afforded and slow learners can be self educated from robot tutors for a longer period of time.
This would be a correction of a mistake of the 20'th century school system. In that system the faster you could grow a factory worker to be a meat robot the better. That was the desire of the ruling classes. (They did not follow it for their own children).
But if you think about it in the old farming system on farms, usually the boys stay with the nuclear family, so there would not be a abrupt change from school to factory. You would do some work and some learning, and if you were not fully mature at 26 it might not matter so much. Often girls adopted to another family through marriage. Instead of a classroom with 30 other kids children would move around during their day doing some work and learning some things.
The Prussian classroom school was especially bad for boys as they are more animated, having more muscles to be animated with.
The Roman empire most likely had a founding population that had good soil on the lands that they controlled, and nature would have culled the "Coocoo Boys" genes out of the gene pool. If you main talent, is to sleep with other men's women and to perhaps steel wealth from other men or even kill other men, then you are a parasite. Many people admire that, but it crowds out useful genes which may allow the skills for building an empire.
Probably the Romans in the end fostered too many "Coocoo Boys" and also the soils that nature had built perhaps became weaker from overuse. Overuse may have resulted from too much taxation in the form of crops expropriated by "Coocoo Boy and their female accomplices.
And of course there are always the potentials of a rival power in an adjacent land. If you have allowed your population to become degenerate and poor, you may become vulnerable to an attack from such powers.
Ending Pending
Continuing, adding poo to the equasion:
What did Britain supply to the roman empire?
Quote:
Copilot Search Branding
Like
Dislike
What Britain Supplied to the Roman Empire
During the Roman occupation of Britain (43AD–c.410AD), the province became a key supplier of agricultural products, raw materials, and manufactured goods to the wider Roman Empire.Agricultural and Food Products
Britain’s fertile lands and temperate climate made it a major producer of grain, which was essential for feeding the Roman army and civilian population www.roman-britain.org. Other staple crops included wheat, barley, and oats. The Romans also introduced and cultivated new Mediterranean crops such as asparagus, turnips, peas, garlic, cabbages, celery, onions, leeks, cucumbers, globe artichokes, figs, medlars, sweet chestnuts, cherries, and plums Historic UK. These were exported to feed Roman troops and urban populations.Livestock and Animal Products
Britain supplied meat, milk, and dairy products from cattle, sheep, and pigs. Wool from British sheep was especially important, as it was a major export to the Mediterranean for textiles www.roman-britain.org.Mineral and Metal Resources
Britain was rich in iron ore and other metals, which were vital for the Roman military and industry. The province also produced lead, tin, and other minerals used in construction, coinage, and manufacturing www.roman-britain.org.Manufactured Goods
British artisans produced pottery (including coarse wares for the army and fine Gaulish samian ware for elites), glassware, and textiles. These were both consumed locally and exported to other provinces www.roman-britain.org+1.Strategic and Economic Role
Britain’s location and resources made it a strategic supply base for the Roman army, especially along Hadrian’s Wall. The province’s ports, such as Londinium (London), Richborough, and Dover, facilitated the export of goods to Gaul, Spain, and Italy www.roman-britain.org.In summary, Britain supplied the Roman Empire with grain, livestock, wool, minerals, and manufactured goods, integrating into the empire’s economy as both a producer and a consumer of Mediterranean and imperial products.
If Brittain was exporting grain, then that grain was eaten by people, perhaps in Rome.
So, lees poo in Brittain, and the soils more depleted.
For Egypt in contrast seasonal flooding would bring crocodile and hippo poo to fertilize their crops.
We currently use artificial fertilizers.
But in Brittain, only a certain amount of fertilizer is added naturally to the soils each year without artificial fertilizers.
It can come from lightning, or from water lit the seas, rivers and lakes. Birds bring fertility from the water when the roost in trees and do their poo.
It is not proven, but if agricultural products were exported to the rest of the Roman Empire, then human poo going into the waterways would be reduced. Less fertility in the rivers and seas, less for the birds to eat.
Also soils tend to thin.
So the Romans abandoned Brittain as it was not a paying enterprise relative to the cost of ruling it.
Ending Peiding
Last edited by Void (2026-05-21 05:50:16)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
Offline
Like button can go here
#9 2026-05-28 07:11:25
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,521
Re: Artificial Egg / Womb
Here is another article about artificial eggs and DE extinction: https://www.yahoo.com/news/videos/biote … ccounter=1 Quote:
Biotechnology company utilizing artificial eggs to resurrect extinct species | NewsNation
NewsNation
Tue, May 26, 2026 at 2:00 AM CDT
Add Yahoo as a preferred source to see more of our stories on Google.
A chicken chick comes with a proper genome and its nutrition methods.
They seem to have the shell and nest, and I think they can have a modified genome.
I will be interested how they provide sufficient nutrition for a Moa in the nest and hatching process.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-05-28 07:14:38)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
Offline
Like button can go here
Pages: 1