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#26 2026-02-20 14:48:57
- Void
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Re: Rubble Pile Sinter/Glass Jar/Double Cone, Ceres
I want to clone a post here as I want to expand on it beyond Ceres: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 79#p238179 From "Index» Terraformation» Ceres", Post #188.
Quote:
Previously disks and cylinders have been considered, I like a double cone jar:
The above drawing is a "Cut-Away" I show one major "Double Cone" in the center, with a rotator, and four smaller attached "Double-Cones".
#1 might be used as a greenhouse. #3 might be used as a radiator.
the rotator inside of the major double-cone jar, can be throttled up or down as per spin rate. During high spin rate, the air will be pumped out of the gap between the spinner and the spinner and the Jar. But periodically air from inside of the spinner can be let out into the gap, after the spin rate has been reduced. So, spin gravity would be periodic.
I regard the double cone shape as of interest, as it might be made of large compressive blocks of materials, and yet wrapped in tensile materials to hold it together. One method to make the blocks is in a form where regolith can be glued together using a Urea-Microbe method.
I think that the blocks could be glued together with something like tar, and that a balloon inside could further assure air tightness.
An internal spin gravity device could be relatively light weight, like an aircraft structure. It would only have full gravity in a ring at it's largest perimeter, and only when at full speed.
The block structures not themselves spinning could be attached to others of their kind to form very large assemblies.
If facilities at locations similar to Ceres could mass produce these, then some of them could be put into elliptical orbits around the sun to merge with major terrestrial crossing asteroids, and to then consume them.
Some of these might then eventually be made synchronous to a world that has a largely circular orbit around the sun. So they would do repeat returns like a boomerang.
Ending Pending 
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Last edited by Void (2026-02-20 15:03:44)
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#27 2026-02-20 21:28:59
- Void
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Re: Rubble Pile Sinter/Glass Jar/Double Cone, Ceres
The thing that I think could be of importance is that not that long after Starships are working with the Moon and Deimos/Phobos/Mars, it will be very possible to be working with small worlds like Ceres.
With robotic mater manipulation, and robots building robots, if satisfactory build methods can be developed then I think that at a fast rate their will be habitation of vase amounts creatable from worlds like Ceres.
Imagine a robot action tunneling into Ceres, 50 km deep. Rendering materials, and then they being used to make shelter for intelligent activities. In the tunnels on Ceres the Robots could be quite functional at temperatures below 0 C, I am speculating. They will not need nearly as much lighting as we do. Humans could be there in special spaces, but in orbit of Ceres it may be rather easy to provide g forces suitable to various needs.
Quote:
I want to clone a post here as I want to expand on it beyond Ceres: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 79#p238179 From "Index» Terraformation» Ceres", Post #188.
Quote:
Previously disks and cylinders have been considered, I like a double cone jar:
The above drawing is a "Cut-Away" I show one major "Double Cone" in the center, with a rotator, and four smaller attached "Double-Cones".
#1 might be used as a greenhouse. #3 might be used as a radiator.
the rotator inside of the major double-cone jar, can be throttled up or down as per spin rate. During high spin rate, the air will be pumped out of the gap between the spinner and the spinner and the Jar. But periodically air from inside of the spinner can be let out into the gap, after the spin rate has been reduced. So, spin gravity would be periodic.
The "Double-Cone-Shell" may be thick enough to protect from the radiation environments.
https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads … elding.pdf
Quote:
2 to 3 metres
To protect from radiation on the Moon, a lunar base will need to be shielded by 2 to 3 metres of regolith. This thickness is necessary to reduce the annual radiation doses from an unshielded level to a safer target. The regolith, which is the moon's surface layer of rock and dust, serves as a blanket of protection against cosmic rays and solar particles. The specific amount of regolith required can be estimated using a radiation shielding calculator, which takes into account the density of the local soil, the mass attenuation coefficient, and the surface area to be covered.
NASA
+1
So, this may be very large blocks of Urine-Bricks, perhaps in forms that will resemble Lego's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego
Image Quote: 
Perhaps with a bit of magnetism in them but perhaps also actually glued together in some way.
You could put a metal shell around the double cone structure if you liked, and then wrap it in high tensile materials such as steel bands, and/or Carbon wrap of some kind.
Perhaps some protective materials over that to deal with impactors.
When you had a lightweight rotator inside of one of these, you could calculate that if there is a breach in the spinner, the air loss, being absorbed by the protective outer shell, would not allow a lethal vacuum exposure. Your ears might pop, but you could survive without serious injury.
Some people might say "Where are the windows". Well, if you want to look out at space, perhaps at Ceres, you could have a window somewhere for that, perhaps in attached smaller double cone #2 or #4.
#1 might be arranged so that you had some sunlight ported into it.
It is quite possible that an almost infinite amount of double cone structures could be connected to each other in orbit of Ceres. You might have rings of them around the little dwarf planet.
So, I argue that the potential for Cere may be very large.
And then it looks like fustian power is going to appear some time not too far from now.
Although you could do double cone structures in the hill sphere of Jupiter, using solar, fusion would be quite a boost as well.
Look at the size of the Hill Sphere of Jupiter and some of the other outer worlds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_sphere
Image Quote: 
It is apparently true that for the orbits of Io, Europa, and Ganymede, the radiation is lethal to quite a challenge, but for Callisto it is said to be not too bad. I am going ot guess that some parts of the magnetic field of Jupiter are better than that of for Callisto.
In any case, Callisto being ~2X as bad as Earth/Moon???? It would be a workable situation. And probably Ganymede could be mined as well, I expect.
It is thought that Ceres and Callisto may have Nitrogen, perhaps in the form of Ammonia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callisto_(moon)
Quote:
Ammonia on Callisto is a topic of interest in the context of its potential for terraforming.
Callisto's surface is rich in carbon dioxide and molecular oxygen, which are essential for life, but it also contains ammonia.
1
The moon's atmosphere is primarily composed of carbon dioxide, and the presence of ammonia could be significant for sustaining life, as it may help convert carbon dioxide into nitrates, which are necessary for biological processes.
2
The idea of terraforming Callisto involves creating a stable atmosphere with heavy inert gases, which could be achieved by filling the atmosphere with nitrogen and possibly ammonia.
2
The potential for ammonia on Callisto suggests that it could be a suitable candidate for supporting life, especially with the right conditions for conversion and stabilization.
1Thus, ammonia plays a crucial role in the potential for life on Callisto, particularly in the context of its terraforming efforts.
2 Sources
Nitrogen is of course of interest for artificial atmospheres, and for the Urea that might be used with microbes to make giant blocks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea
Image Quote: 
https://www.spacereference.org/asteroid … st%20point.
Quote:
Ceres's spectral type G (Tholen) / C (SMASSII) indicates that it is likely to contain water, iron, nickel, cobalt, nitrogen, and ammonia. Ceres's orbit is 1.58 AU from Earth's orbit at its closest point.
It would expect lots of Carbon as well.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-02-20 22:13:47)
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#28 2026-02-21 12:17:31
- Void
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Re: Rubble Pile Sinter/Glass Jar/Double Cone, Ceres
A mixture of matter and energy and means of manipulation makes Earth valuable.
Ceres/Asteroid Belt, are the other place that I see as being similar.
But the difference is the gravity wells.
Deimos/Phobos/Mars are interesting as well, but energy is perhaps not as good and the gravity well for Mars is still somewhat significant.
Mars does have Nitrogen but not so much to spare. If Ceres does have Ammonia, then it has a very useful asset.
Energy for Ceres could be though microwaves or lasers, and possibly space elevators.
If Space Elevators could not carry cargo, they might conduct electricity.
But with a low gravity, and a small tilt in axis, ground solar installations might be practical also.
I am sure that Deimos/Phobos/Mars will not be ignored, but if they did not exist, another way to handle things, would be to join our Moon effort to a Ceres/Asteroid Belt effort.
I sort of think that for that it might be that ships will be built at both locations.
Our Moon could use a bulk of what Ceres has, but Ceres could support a lot of artificial habitat.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-02-21 12:27:20)
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#29 2026-02-21 20:14:49
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Re: Rubble Pile Sinter/Glass Jar/Double Cone, Ceres
Quote:
Previously disks and cylinders have been considered, I like a double cone jar:
The above drawing is a "Cut-Away" I show one major "Double Cone" in the center, with a rotator, and four smaller attached "Double-Cones".
#1 might be used as a greenhouse. #3 might be used as a radiator.
the rotator inside of the major double-cone jar, can be throttled up or down as per spin rate. During high spin rate, the air will be pumped out of the gap between the spinner and the spinner and the Jar. But periodically air from inside of the spinner can be let out into the gap, after the spin rate has been reduced. So, spin gravity would be periodic.
My logic for synthetic gravity in a double cone is that the ring with highest gravity is not likely to be required all day long for a human. At least I suspect that.
People do not spend 24 hours a day standing and straining in a 1 g gravity. If much of your day is at 1 g, you might have your bedroom somewhere with lesser gravity.
But time will tell. It seems likely that some humans of some kind will live some of the time on the Moon, and we will get some information on physical reactions to 1/6 g for humans and test biology. That may tell us important things.
I see the double cone as being intermediate between the torus, and the cylinder. I have shown where a Torus could be put into the Double Cone Structure.
So, you could put the typical spokes into it like a Starford Torus, but I think it is just easier to walk up the incline to get to the null gravity points on each apex of each cone.
Ending Pending
So that living in orbit of Ceres might not seem a grim thing, I have added a possible method of greenhouse. Very low gravity and at least somewhat lighted.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-02-21 20:41:29)
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#30 Yesterday 10:00:00
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Re: Rubble Pile Sinter/Glass Jar/Double Cone, Ceres
A problem with building a shell out created "Stone", is reaction to temperature changes.
One solution would be to keep relatively constant temperature inside the shell.
The other is to build in methods to tolerate the cracking which this structure may be prone to. You might actually build in planed cracks and put caulking in them of some kind???
The rock shell will be wrapped in tensile materials such as Steel Bands and Carbon Materials, I think. Outside of that some kind of thermal insulation that also handles impactors.
Then you might have a balloon insert inside of the rock shell.
It might be possible to make an entire rock shell inside of a form, if you had a form that large.
You would pressurize the insides just a bit, and then bring in regolith tailings, (Presuming you extracted some minerals). Then bring in water and Urea. Mix it up and splat it onto the interior walls and let the microbes do their work. Rinse and repeat.
https://nextnature.org/en/magazine/stor … rick-urine
Quote:
This bio-brick is made out of urine mixed with sand and bacteria
Helen Swingler
October 30th, 2018The world’s first bio-brick grown from human urine has been unveiled by University of Cape Town (UCT) master’s student in civil engineering Suzanne Lambert, signalling an innovative paradigm shift in waste recovery
The bio-bricks are created through a natural process called microbial carbonate precipitation. It’s not unlike the way seashells are formed, said Lambert’s supervisor Dr Dyllon Randall, a senior lecturer in water quality engineering.
In this case, loose sand is colonised with bacteria that produce urease. An enzyme, the urease breaks down the urea in urine while producing calcium carbonate through a complex chemical reaction. This cements the sand into any shape, whether it’s a solid column, or now, for the first time, a rectangular building brick.
For the past few months Lambert and civil engineering honours student Vukheta Mukhari have been hard at work in the laboratory testing various bio-brick shapes and tensile strengths to produce an innovative building material. Mukhari is being co-supervised by Professor Hans Beushausen, also from the civil engineering department. Beushausen is helping to test the products.
The development is also good news for the environment and global warming as bio-bricks are made in moulds at room temperature. Regular bricks are kiln-fired at temperatures around 1 400°C and produce vast quantities of carbon dioxide.
The strength of the bio-bricks would depend on client needs.
“If a client wanted a brick stronger than a 40% limestone brick, you would allow the bacteria to make the solid stronger by ‘growing’ it for longer,” said Randall.
“The longer you allow the little bacteria to make the cement, the stronger the product is going to be. We can optimise that process.”
Images: The various stages of the making of the world’s first bio-brick created from human urine in a process not unlike the way seashells are formed.
Foundational work
The concept of using urea to grow bricks was tested in the United States some years back using synthetic solutions, but Lambert’s brick uses real human urine for the first time, with significant consequences for waste recycling and upcycling. Her work builds on foundational research by Jules Henze, a Swiss student who spent four months working with Randall on this concept in 2017.
“It’s what I love about research. You build on the foundations of other work,” said Randall.
The various stages of the making of the world’s first bio-brick created from human urine in a process not unlike the way seashells are formed.
Fertilisers as by-productsIn addition, the bio-brick process produces as by-products nitrogen and potassium, which are important components of commercial fertilisers.
Chemically speaking, urine is liquid gold, according to Randall. It accounts for less than 1% of domestic waste water (by volume) but contains 80% of the nitrogen, 56% of the phosphorus and 63% of the potassium of this waste water.
Some 97% of the phosphorus present in the urine can be converted into calcium phosphate, the key ingredient in fertilisers that underpin commercial farming worldwide. This is significant because the world’s natural phosphate reserves are running dry
Zero waste
The fertilisers are produced as part of the phased process used to produce the bio-bricks.
First, urine is collected in novel fertiliser-producing urinals and used to make a solid fertiliser. The remaining liquid is then used in the biological process to grow the bio-brick.
“But in that process, we’re only after two components: carbonate ions and the calcium. What we do last is take the remaining liquid product from the bio-brick process and make a second fertiliser,” he explained.
The overall scheme would effectively result in zero waste, with the urine completely converted into three useful products
“No-one’s looked at it in terms of that entire cycle and the potential to recover multiple valuable products. The next question is how to do that in an optimised way so that profit can be created from urine.”
There are also logistics to be considered; urine collection and transport to a resource recovery. Randall has discussed these opportunities in a recent review paper on urine. Another of his master’s students is investigating the transport logistics of urine collection and treatment with some very promising results.
Social acceptance is another consideration.
“At the moment we’re only dealing with urine collection from male urinals because that’s socially accepted. But what about the other half of the population?”
In the run-up to unveiling the bio-brick, both students expressed optimism about the potential of innovation in the sustainability space.
“This project has been a huge part of my life for the past year and a half, and I see so much potential for the process’s application in the real world. I can’t wait for when the world is ready for it,” Lambert said.
“Working on this project has been an eye-opening experience. Given the progress made in the research here at UCT, creating a truly sustainable construction material is now a possibility,” Mukhari added.
Randall said the work is creating paradigm shifts with respect to how society views waste and the upcycling of that waste.
“In this example you take something that is considered a waste and make multiple products from it. You can use the same process for any waste stream. It’s about rethinking things,” he said.
Quote:
Making bricks using urine and microbes involves a natural process called microbial carbonate precipitation. Here’s how it works:
Ingredients: The process typically uses urine, sand, and bacteria that produce urease, which breaks down urea in urine into calcium carbonate.
2
Production: The urine is mixed with sand in molds, and the bacteria work to create a solid brick at room temperature, eliminating the need for high-temperature kilns.
2
Environmental Benefits: This method not only creates bricks but also recycles nitrogen and potassium, which can be used as fertilizers, thus reducing waste.
2
Strength: The strength of the bricks can be enhanced by allowing the bacteria to "grow" the solid longer, similar to how shellfish shells are formed.
2This innovative approach demonstrates a sustainable use of waste materials, promoting environmental sustainability in construction.
I am a little concerned about the "Fertilizer" conversation in bold print.
I was thinking manufactured Urea might be used, not human urine. Manufactured Urea will not automatically have all the mentioned components of Human Urine.
Also, they talk about "Sand", and regolith is not necessarily a good substitute. But it may be OK.
It may be that Urine is not the only substance to add to the mix.
While forming it, I think that tensile mesh could be added in layers as well. Screening of some Metal or Carbon. Although the bacteria may consume a part of those as well.
Stainless Steel, Aluminum, Carbon mesh?
Probably you might embed the equivalent of rebar in it as well, if you wanted to.
Anyway, for now, it is conversation. Maybe someday it would be habitats.
Ending Pending
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