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This topic introduces a possible economic driver for an SSTO.
It could also be used for a TSTO launch configuration.
In this scenario, the tanks used for propellant during ascent would be repurposed as living space.
While the vehicle (in this scenario) would not be designed for re-entry, it ** can ** serve as a living space for a worker assigned to a project, so that no other resources are needed to support the worker while aloft. After the worker vacates the structure, it would remain available for use by others, assuming suitable refurbishment.
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I decided to ask Google's Gemini for suggestions of existing RV companies that might be interested in the space RV market. Not too surprisingly, Gemini ** thinks ** established companies might not be willing to invest in such a daring concept.
Conversation with Gemini
Space Camper Concept - Hi Gemini! Thank you for your assistance with numerous previous questions and requests! This one should be easy for you compared to some of the earlier ones. I'm looking for a list of companies in the camper business, arranged in descending order of annual sales.
***
You're right, this is a fun one! The camper industry is dominated by a few major players who own a wide array of popular brands. Here's a list of the top companies in the camper/RV business, generally arranged in descending order of annual sales, based on recent financial reports and market share data:THOR Industries Inc.
Annual Revenue (TTM - Trailing Twelve Months): Approximately $9.59 Billion (as of late 2024 data).
Key Brands: THOR is a massive conglomerate and owns numerous well-known RV brands, including Airstream, Jayco, Keystone RV, Dutchmen, Heartland RV, Thor Motor Coach, Entegra Coach, Tiffin Motorhomes, and many more. They are the world's largest manufacturer of recreational vehicles.
Forest River Inc.
Parent Company: Berkshire Hathaway
Market Share: Significant, often holding the second-largest market share in many RV categories (e.g., around 33-34% for travel trailers in 2022). While exact standalone revenue figures for Forest River aren't always publicly disclosed due to being a subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway, their market share indicates very high sales volumes.
Key Brands: Coachmen, Palomino, Prime Time Manufacturing, Shasta, Dynamax, Fleetwood RV, and more.
Winnebago Industries, Inc.
Annual Revenue (TTM): Approximately $2.74 Billion (as of late 2024 data).
Key Brands: Winnebago (their primary brand), Grand Design RV, Newmar, Chris-Craft, and Barletta.
Polaris Inc.
Annual Revenue (TTM): Approximately $6.97 Billion (as of late 2024 data).
While Polaris is known for a broader range of recreational vehicles (ATVs, snowmobiles, motorcycles), their revenue figures include their RV/camper segment, which is substantial.
REV Group, Inc.
Key Brands: American Coach, Fleetwood RV, Holiday Rambler, Monaco Coach. They focus heavily on motorized RVs.
It's important to note that:
Revenue figures can fluctuate based on reporting periods and market conditions. The "Trailing Twelve Months" (TTM) provides a good recent snapshot.
Market share data can sometimes offer a good proxy for sales volume when exact revenue for private companies or subsidiaries isn't available.
The "camper business" broadly includes various types of RVs, from travel trailers and fifth wheels to motorhomes (Class A, B, C). These companies generally operate across multiple segments.
***First, thank you for this helpful list, and for the details you included. Now I'll explain the context and request your evaluation of the names you found with respect to the opportunity. In the near future (and indeed, already) there is/will be a need for "camping" facilities in space. You are well aware of national "camping" expeditions, such as the US Skylab or the famous Soviet MIR station. Today we have the ISS and a Chinese station. The business opportunity we are exploring is a Single Stage to Orbit vehicle that configures itself into living space after it has reached LEO. So! Of the companies you named, which do you think might be interested in funding analysis of the feasibility of developing such a vehicle?
***This is a fascinating and visionary concept! You're looking to bridge the gap between terrestrial "camping" and the emerging space economy, focusing on habitable space vehicles.
When evaluating the traditional RV companies you listed for their interest in funding such a highly speculative, technologically complex, and entirely new venture, we need to consider several factors:
Core Business: Their primary expertise lies in manufacturing ground-based recreational vehicles, which involves different materials, safety standards, regulatory environments, and manufacturing processes than spacecraft.
Risk Tolerance: Space development is incredibly capital-intensive and carries extremely high technological and market risks. Traditional RV companies are generally more conservative with their investments, focusing on incremental improvements and market expansion within their established industry.
Existing Investments/Strategy: Most of these companies are focused on electrification, sustainability, and digital integration within the terrestrial RV market. They have not publicly indicated any direct interest or investment in aerospace or space tourism.
Expertise Gap: They lack the deep aerospace engineering, rocketry, life support systems, and orbital mechanics expertise required for a Single Stage to Orbit (SSTO) habitable vehicle.
Realistically, it's highly unlikely that any of the traditional RV companies (THOR, Forest River, Winnebago, REV Group, or Polaris) would be interested in directly funding the analysis of feasibility for developing a Single Stage to Orbit (SSTO) vehicle that configures into living space.
Here's why, and where you might find interest:
Why the RV Companies are Unlikely to Fund Feasibility:
THOR Industries, Inc.: While they are the largest and most acquisitive, their acquisitions are almost exclusively within the RV industry, expanding their brand portfolio and market reach. Their "innovation" efforts are geared towards electric RVs, smart features, and manufacturing efficiencies for ground-based travel. They have a partnership with TechNexus Venture Collaborative, but that's aimed at identifying opportunities within the RV industry for technologies like autonomy, robotics, EVs, and digital consumer experience – not space travel.
Forest River Inc. (Berkshire Hathaway): As a subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway, they benefit from significant resources. However, Berkshire Hathaway is known for investing in established, profitable businesses, not typically high-risk, early-stage, disruptive technologies in entirely different sectors like space. Forest River's innovations are focused on optimizing space, climate control, and solar power for terrestrial campers.
Winnebago Industries, Inc.: Their focus is on outdoor lifestyle products and corporate responsibility initiatives related to environmental sustainability and community engagement. Their innovation is directed at improving their current product lines and expanding access to earth-bound outdoor experiences.
Polaris Inc.: While they make diverse recreational vehicles, their business is centered on off-road vehicles, snowmobiles, and motorcycles. Their focus is on performance, durability, and recreation in earthly environments.
REV Group, Inc.: Their expertise is in specialty vehicles, including emergency vehicles, transit buses, and commercial trucks, in addition to RVs. Their innovation is driven by the needs of these specific ground-based industries.
Where You Might Find Funding or Interest for Such a Concept:
Your concept of a "space camper" is genuinely innovative and aligns more with the ambitions of aerospace and space exploration companies that are already investing heavily in orbital habitats, space tourism, and advanced propulsion systems.
Consider approaching:
Companies actively developing space habitats:
Axiom Space: They are building the first commercial space station modules, eventually replacing the ISS. They are deeply invested in private space habitats.
Bigelow Aerospace (though their future is uncertain): Historically, they developed expandable habitat modules (like BEAM on the ISS). While they've faced challenges, the concept aligns.
Vast: They are developing Haven-1, a commercial space station.
Companies pursuing advanced space transportation and reusability:
SpaceX: With Starship, they are developing a fully reusable, highly capable vehicle that could eventually serve as an orbital habitat. Their long-term vision includes colonization.
Blue Origin: They are developing New Glenn and are interested in lunar infrastructure and space habitats.
Sierra Space (formerly Sierra Nevada Corporation): They are developing the Dream Chaser spaceplane for cargo and future crewed missions, and have ambitions for orbital habitats (e.g., the LIFE habitat).
Radian Aerospace: They are specifically focused on developing a single-stage to orbit (SSTO) horizontal takeoff and landing (HTHL) spaceplane. Your concept of an SSTO that reconfigures into living space aligns perfectly with their core mission. They have already secured significant funding from venture capitalists and aerospace-focused investors.
Other smaller, innovative aerospace startups: There are many startups in the "New Space" sector exploring various aspects of space access and utilization.
Venture Capital Firms and Investment Funds focused on Space Tech:
Many VC firms are specifically investing in the burgeoning space economy, including space tourism, orbital infrastructure, and advanced propulsion. They are more accustomed to the high-risk, high-reward nature of space ventures.
Look for funds like SpaceFund, Seraphim Space Investment Trust, or those affiliated with established aerospace companies.
Government Grants and Programs:
Organizations like NASA (through programs like "Commercial LEO Development" or SBIR/STTR grants for small businesses) are actively looking for innovative solutions for future space habitation and transportation.
In summary: While the term "camper" might make you think of traditional RV companies, the technological leap to space requires a completely different industry's expertise and risk appetite. Your best bet for funding analysis of such a groundbreaking SSTO concept would be with dedicated aerospace companies and venture capitalists specializing in space technology, particularly those already working on reusable launch systems and orbital habitats.
***Thank you for this helpful follow up! While many established companies may be reluctant to take the risk of opening a new market, there are countless examples from history of such companies being left behind when a new market appears. The examples are legion, but I like the Buggy Whip industry, even though the reference is apocryphal.
***You've hit on a absolutely crucial point, and it's a profound observation about market disruption and innovation. The "Buggy Whip" anecdote, apocryphal or not, perfectly encapsulates the danger for established industries when a paradigm shift occurs. Kodak and digital photography, Blockbuster and streaming, traditional taxis and ride-sharing – the list of real-world examples is indeed legion.
You are entirely correct that:
Established companies often find it difficult to pivot or invest significantly in nascent, highly disruptive technologies, even if those technologies threaten their very existence. Their incentives, organizational structures, existing customer base, and profit models are all geared towards optimizing the current market, not creating an entirely new one that might cannibalize their own.
The risk profile is vastly different. Investing in a space camper (or SSTO habitat) when your core competency is terrestrial RVs is an almost unfathomably large leap in technical, financial, and regulatory risk. It requires a different type of engineering, different supply chains, different safety standards, and a customer base that currently barely exists.
"Dunbar's Number" for Industries: Just as there are limits to human relationships, there might be an analogous concept for how far an established industry can stretch its core identity and business model. The leap from Earth RVs to space habitats might simply exceed that elasticity for a traditional RV manufacturer.
The "Space Camper" Opportunity through a Disruptive Lens:
Your "Space Camper" concept isn't just an RV for space; it's a fundamental reimagining of "recreational space access and habitation." It's not about making a better RV; it's about enabling a new form of human experience that is currently science fiction for the masses.
If and when the space tourism and habitat market truly takes off, the companies that succeed will be those that were either:
Born into the new paradigm: Companies like SpaceX, Blue Origin, Axiom Space, or your hypothetical SSTO developer. They are building the infrastructure and vehicles from the ground up with space in mind.
Existing aerospace giants who successfully diversified and innovated: Boeing, Lockheed Martin, etc., but this often happens through dedicated new divisions or spin-offs, not usually within their commercial aircraft or defense units directly.
Extremely forward-thinking (and brave) terrestrial companies that make a massive, early, and sustained investment into the new frontier. This is the rarest scenario, but it's where the "Buggy Whip" lesson comes into play. If a traditional RV company were to do this, they would need to:
Acquire or heavily invest in a cutting-edge aerospace firm.
Create an entirely separate, highly autonomous "Space Division" with its own budget, R&D, and engineering talent, free from the constraints and profit pressures of the terrestrial business.
Have a visionary leadership willing to stomach years, if not decades, of significant investment without immediate returns, and potentially face internal skepticism from shareholders.
Conclusion on the RV Companies:
While the historical lesson about disruption is compelling, it doesn't change the immediate reality for these specific RV companies. They are structured, financed, and managed for their existing markets. The "Buggy Whip" companies didn't pivot to automobiles; new companies (Ford, GM, etc.) emerged to create the automobile industry. Similarly, it's far more likely that new space-focused companies, or existing aerospace giants, will be the ones to develop and dominate the "space camper" market, should it materialize.
Your task now is to find the "Fords" and "GMs" of the space habitat industry, or the investors willing to back them, because they are the ones who understand and are willing to take the calculated risks of a truly new frontier. Your analysis of the potential for being left behind is absolutely spot on for the terrestrial RV industry, but it underscores why they won't fund your feasibility study – they're still selling buggy whips, and the car isn't quite on every street yet.
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Last edited by tahanson43206 (2025-07-14 09:26:51)
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