On Orbit Propellant Refueling Techniques Depot Rotation Ullage

tahanson43206 · 2025-05-16 20:19:19

Here is a collection of multiple papers GW Johnson has written about on orbit refueling of crygenic fluids.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/av6nucga … vkpre&dl=0

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tahanson43206 · 2025-05-19 08:34:24

This post is intended to copy the link to GW's idea to the second set of 25 posts in this topic.

tahanson43206 wrote:

Here is the latest concept developed and published by GW Johnson!
Search terms: cryogenic propellant counter rotate
This one has the distinct advantage that it does NOT require the delivery vehicle to spin up to deliver fuel to the customer.
All the action happens inside the tank.
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Update: It should be possible to prove out much of this concept on Earth.

A ride on a parabolic flight costs $8900 per seat (from one vendor).

NASA has it's own plane for the purpose.

Hardware to test the concept at the ISS may already exist there, if the ISS support team can be persuaded to consider the question.

In last night's Google Meeting, we made a (very preliminary) attempt to use the Patent Office search tool to see if anyone has patented (or applied for a patent on) the specific idea GW has shown above. We did not have much luck. The tool has been improved but it is still difficult (for me for sure) to use.

If we have a NewMars member who is adept at search, please search the Patent Office database to see if anyone has patented the specific idea GW has shown us.

Update: A test article could be made to float in a tank of water. Gravity will influence the behavior of the fluid inside the tank but that could actually work to the advantage of the experimenter. The exit holes could be at the top of the tank instead of the bottom, so the effectiveness of the vanes would be shown by the flow of fluid up through the openings and out to a collecting container.

The ability of the counter rotating vanes could be demonstrated by allowing the apparatus to float free in the enclosing fluid. In operation, no net torque should occur while there is equal fluid in both ends of the test article.

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tahanson43206 · 2025-05-27 13:14:04

Update 2025/05/27:

This link points to an article by GW Johnson about a fuel depot in LEO....

The article is updated to reflect his recent work in a method of exporting cryogenic fluids from tanks.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bzall273 … lex5b&dl=0

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tahanson43206 · 2025-06-01 20:06:57

This post provides links to four documents prepared by GW Johnson for various audiences, about his Patent Pending concept for on orbit refueling.

Depot article:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/d9k6kh5v … dpxxm&dl=0

Update to Depot article:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/hd0synkr … f8rhl&dl=0

Unusual design for on-orbit refueling tank
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wy2dw8lj … dm4wd&dl=0

Cryogenic propellant transfer in Zero Gee (overview of entire subject)
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1ubzqjs0 … a2653&dl=0

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tahanson43206 · 2025-06-21 12:35:45

This post is based upon an article about the challenges Musk and Company face ...

It reports the Hohmann Transfer window next year as the target for Musk's ambitious exploration mission to Mars.

I'm placing the item here because the reporter includes fuel transfer as a critical path item that Musk has not solved (among many).

GW Johnson has applied for a patent (preliminary application completed) on a refueling procedure that might work. the method could be tested with a simple parabolic flight, or a simple test device on the ISS.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-stars … 31186.html

With tech billionaire Elon Musk out of the White House after his disastrous turn as a bureaucrat, he can now focus on more pressing subjects — such as his SpaceX Starship rockets that keep on exploding into fiery columns of fire, with the latest dramatic failure this past Wednesday in Texas, when the massive spacecraft hadn't even left the ground yet.
This recent setback ratchets up the pressure on Musk even further, who faces a hard deadline and steep technical challenges in his vaunted goal to reach Mars.
Much of that deadline is self-imposed, as CNN points out in an excoriating new breakdown of the situation. In May, Musk said he plans to send an unmanned crew to Mars next year, but the latest blast — the latest in a string of similar explosions that have plagued Starship — seem almost certain to set him back enough to force SpaceX to miss a crucial celestial launch opportunity called a transfer window.
Depending on the position of Earth and Mars from one another, the distance between the two planets can vary from 35 million to over 200 million miles. To make the journey shorter and to save cost on fuel, explorers must time their rocket launch during the transfer window, a period when Mars and Earth are in an optimal alignment that minimizes the journey's length.
The next transfer window for Mars is in late 2026 and will only last for a few weeks; miss it, and the journey will be way more expensive and far longer to be practical.
To still make the deadline, Musk faces the extraordinary challenge of fixing any technical challenges with Starship and present an upgraded version of the vehicle and the Super Heavy rocket booster in time before the Mars transfer window next year.
In addition, SpaceX has to figure out how to fuel Starship, which needs to be topped off with propellant in orbit before making its journey to the red planet. This would involve launching numerous Starships into space and using them to fuel up the one headed to the Red Planet — a process that will pose a spectacular logistical challenge of its own.
"We’ve never done that," Bruce Jakosky, professor emeritus of geological sciences at the University of Colorado Boulder, told CNN. "Nobody’s done that — transferring fuel from one spacecraft to another in orbit autonomously."
Another technical challenge SpaceX needs to solve is Starship's heat shield, which has to survive entry into Mar's atmosphere and the journey back to Earth. Back in May, Musk himself conceded that it posed "one of the toughest problems to solve."
And all that is without getting into the technical feasibility of human flight to Mars, including how to shield any crew from cosmic radiation.
Before any of that, of course, Starship needs to stop exploding.
More on SpaceX: Elon's Explosion at Trump Appears to Have Cost Him a HUGE Dealtext

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#26 2025-05-16 20:19:19

Re: On Orbit Propellant Refueling Techniques Depot Rotation Ullage

#27 2025-05-19 08:34:24

Re: On Orbit Propellant Refueling Techniques Depot Rotation Ullage

#28 2025-05-27 13:14:04

Re: On Orbit Propellant Refueling Techniques Depot Rotation Ullage

#29 2025-06-01 20:06:57

Re: On Orbit Propellant Refueling Techniques Depot Rotation Ullage

#30 2025-06-21 12:35:45

Re: On Orbit Propellant Refueling Techniques Depot Rotation Ullage

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