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#1 2025-03-05 07:16:39

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 4,202

Starboat

Brian Wang has posted an article on the scaled down (20% size) Starship version proposed by Robert Zubrin.  Compared to Starship, this vehicle will require only a single orbital refuel before departure for Mars.
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2025/03/z … rboat.html

Zubrin makes the point that attempting to explore the surface of Mars from a single base is impractical.  Mars is too big and ground vehicles are too slow.  But it occurs to me that there is nothing to prevent a Mars base from using rocket vehicles to explore any area of the planet.  These can be far more compact than any expedition sent from Earth, because the base is never more than 10,000km away.


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#2 2025-03-05 08:19:11

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 22,827

Re: Starboat

This post is reserved for posts that may be contributed by NewMars members over time.

Index:

(th)

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#3 2025-03-05 08:26:09

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 22,827

Re: Starboat

Robert Zubrin's "Starboat" showed up in a Google search for the term.

It turns out the term has been in use for over 100 years.

Feedback
Star (keelboat)
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Star_(keelboat)
For you
The Star is a 6.9 metres (23 ft) one-design racing keelboat for two people designed by Francis Sweisguth in 1910.
starboat from en.wikipedia.org
The Development of Star Boat Keel
Star Class
https://starclass.org › history › the-development-of-star-...

The Star was designed in November 1910 in the office of William Gardner, there was no thought given to the idea that the Star boat would outgrow its being used ...
starboat from starclass.org
Star Boat Design and Development
Star Class

https://starclass.org › classic › history › star_boat_desig...
The Star, as originally drawn up by Mr. Sweisguth, was a gaff rigged boat with a long boom, very typical for racing boats of the day. The luff of the mainsail ...
starboat from starclass.org

Zubrin's New Mars Plan with a Mini Starship Called Starboat
NextBigFuture.com
https://www.nextbigfuture.com › Energy
10 hours ago — Starboat likely refers to a smaller, more efficient spacecraft that Zubrin envisions as part of his updated mission architecture. Starboat would ...

StarBoats – Electric drives, custom boats, yacht insurance
StarBoats – Electric drives, custom boats, yacht insurance

https://starboats.eu
Electric drives for yachts and boats, yacht insurance, all-round protection, custom boats, custom and renovation.
Starboat
starboat.app

https://www.starboat.app
CREATIVE SPACE. Starboat is redesigning the internet, starting with a new platform for creatives. Proudly managing Circular Creator Club.
starboat from www.starboat.app

Starboat (Tugboat and Riverboat)
nelson-atkins.org
https://art.nelson-atkins.org › objects › starboat-tugboat-a...
A tugboat is positioned in the center of the canvas with a clear reflection of it in the calm water below. A star is clearly indicated on the smoke stack.
starboat from art.nelson-atkins.org
Star Boat buy/sell - charter
Facebook · Star Boat buy/sell - charter
1.5K+ followers

Star boats has the best life when they are sailing. Here you can sell or buy your Star. Also a marketplace for equipment sails, masts or spare parts.
starboat from www.facebook.com

(th)

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#4 2025-09-21 17:15:22

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,722

Re: Starboat

in the inital title and post.
Much like other plans put forth ffrom Zubrin which could work as many other before have fallen on deaaf ear..

AI Overview
Robert Zubrin proposes integrating his "Mars Direct" philosophy with SpaceX's Starship through the "Starboat," a smaller, reusable vehicle that serves as a surface-to-orbit shuttle for early Mars missions, reducing the need for the large Starship to land on the planet. The Starboat would use less propellant, operate as a mini-Starship with a smaller crew, and act as a shuttle for a Starship parked in Mars orbit, making Mars exploration more flexible and efficient. This approach provides a pathway for early human missions to Mars by leveraging the reusable infrastructure of a larger Starship in orbit and the efficiency of a smaller vehicle for surface operations.
Zubrin's Mars Direct and the Starboat
Mars Direct Philosophy:
Zubrin's original Mars Direct plan emphasized a "live-off-the-land" approach, utilizing a nuclear-powered rover to produce fuel on Mars for the Earth Return Vehicle (ERV).
Starboat Concept:
The Starboat is Zubrin's adaptation of this idea to the SpaceX Starship architecture, envisioning a smaller version of the Starship as a dedicated surface-to-orbit shuttle.
Key Aspects of the Starboat for Mars Missions
Reduced Propellant Needs:
The Starboat requires significantly less propellant to land on Mars and return to orbit compared to the full-size Starship.
Efficient Surface Operations:
Instead of a large Starship landing on Mars, a Starship could remain in orbit, and the Starboat would shuttle crews and cargo between the surface and the orbiting Starship.
Flexibility and Crew Size:
The smaller size of the Starboat makes it more suitable for early, smaller-crew missions focused on establishing infrastructure on Mars.
Refueling and Reusability:
The Starboat's high reusability and lower fuel requirements would make missions more efficient.
How it Works with Starship
Orbital Starship: A full-sized Starship is sent to Mars orbit and remains there as a "parked" asset.
Starboat as a Shuttle: The smaller Starboat would launch from Earth (potentially fully fueled by a single Starship), travel to Mars, and then perform the surface-to-orbit shuttle role.
Surface-to-Orbit Transport: The Starboat's primary role would be ascending from the Martian surface to the orbiting Starship, requiring less propellant than a full Starship would for the same task.
This concept offers a more scalable and efficient approach to early human Mars exploration, aligning with Zubrin's core principles of resourcefulness and efficiency

Zubrin’s New Mars Plan with a Mini Starship Called Starboat

Specification for a Mini Starship Using Two Raptor Engines

Robert Zubrin talks about reducing the mass of SpaceX Starship by a factor of 5 for a Starboat mini-Starship. The linear dimensions would scale by the cube root of 1/5 ≈ 0.58. This gives a diameter of 9 × 0.58 ≈ 5.2 meters. The mass would then be 1320 / 5 = 264 tons (assuming proportional scaling of dry mass and propellant). For a thrust-to-weight ratio of 0.91, the required thrust is 0.91 × 264 ≈ 240 tons. One Raptor (200 tons thrust) is slightly insufficient, while two Raptors (400 tons) provide excess thrust, yielding a ratio of 400 / 264 ≈ 1.52, which is reasonable for an upper stage. There are more advanced Raptors where one engine could get the thrust.

I had worked out the insitu refueling for a total large starship and it need to many landing off equipment to make a single return ship happen.

Mars surface to Earth using 120 tons of propellant or perform a low-Mars-orbit rendezvous using just 50 tons of propellant, with a single tanker in low Mars orbit being able to support five such return flights. It could also be lifted to Earth orbit fully fueled by a single Starship and sent directly to Mars with five tons of cargo without any Earth-orbit refueling, or 25 tons of cargo with a single tanker refueling.

Mars Landing and Operations
Efficient Design: The Starboat needs five times less propellant than the Starship for landing on Mars and returning to orbit. For comparison, refueling the Starship on Mars requires approximately 600 tons of propellant, while Zubrin’s Mars Direct plan uses vehicles needing only about 120 tons.

By a rough estimate, to make the 600 metric tons of propellant required to refuel the Starship once on Mars within a year and a half would require a power source with an average round-the-clock output of 600 kilowatts. A solar array that could do that would cover 60,000 square meters — that’s over 13 football fields in size — and weigh about 240 metric tons. It would require three Starship flights just to deliver such a solar array to Mars, and it would then be a major burden to deploy and maintain. A more practical alternative would be to use nuclear power. We could imagine a plausible reactor design at this power level with a mass of about ten tons.

https://marspapers.org/paper/Gurrea_2021.pdf

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#5 2025-09-21 17:23:21

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,722

Re: Starboat

Robert Zubrin's "Starboat Mars Mission" concept proposes a smaller, dedicated ascent/descent vehicle called Starboat for Martian surface operations, reducing reliance on the large Starship for return trips. The plan involves a large Starship delivering the Starboat to Mars, where it would act as a surface-to-orbit ferry, performing direct returns to Earth or rendezvousing with a Starship tanker in Mars orbit for refueling. This approach aims to simplify the mission architecture and improve ascent efficiency from Mars.
Starboat's Role
Surface-to-Orbit Ferry:
Starboat serves as the primary vehicle for the crew to return from the Martian surface.
Flexible Rendezvous:
It can either return directly to Earth or rendezvous with a Starship in Mars orbit for refueling.
Mission Architecture
Initial Starship Launch: A large Starship is launched to Mars with the Starboat as cargo, or the Starship acts as a fuel tanker.
Martian ISRU: The Starship, after delivering the Starboat, serves as a base for Martian resource utilization (ISRU) to produce methane and oxygen.
Mars Operations: The Starboat uses the produced propellant for a 3.8 km/s delta-V burn to reach Mars orbit.
Return Trip: The Starboat either:
Direct Return: Uses its full fuel load to return directly to Earth.
Orbit Rendezvous: Transfers some of its fuel to a Starship tanker in low-Mars orbit to allow for a shorter, more fuel-efficient return to Earth.
Advantages
Reduced Complexity:
Eliminates the need for a large Starship to be the primary ascent vehicle from Mars.
Optimized Ascent:
Starboat is a smaller, more efficient vehicle for returning from the Martian surface.
Increased Flexibility:
Offers options for both direct and orbital rendezvous return trajectories.
Challenges
Power Requirements:
Producing sufficient propellant on Mars requires a significant power source, such as a large solar farm or a nuclear reactor.
Infrastructure:
Transporting and deploying the necessary infrastructure for propellant production poses a challenge for initial mission

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#6 2025-09-21 17:24:04

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,722

Re: Starboat

This is in essence "A toehold mission to Mars is a strategic, multi-phase approach designed to establish an initial, minimal but sustained human presence on the Martian surface. The concept is derived from corporate strategy, where a "toehold" is a small, initial investment in a target company to gain a foothold before a larger acquisition. For Mars exploration, this strategy avoids a single, large-scale, "flags and footprints" style mission in favor of a gradual, cost-effective build-up of infrastructure.
Core design principles
The toehold mission design is founded on several core principles to mitigate risk and maximize resource utilization:
Split-mission strategy: Mission hardware, supplies, and habitats are deployed robotically to Mars in advance of the crew, reducing the overall mass that the crewed vehicle must carry and minimizing risk.
Use of in-situ resources (ISRU): A primary objective of the initial robotic phase is to land and operate an ISRU plant to manufacture resources from the Martian atmosphere and soil, such as methane fuel and oxygen. This is crucial for the crew's ascent and return vehicle.
Fast transits with surface abort options: Crew transport is designed for fast transits to limit exposure to deep-space radiation and the physiological effects of long-duration microgravity. A "surface abort" option is also built in, providing a safe haven at the base camp should an in-flight emergency occur.
Short stays followed by extended exploration: The first crewed missions involve relatively short stays (e.g., 30 days) to establish the initial outpost and prove the return-trip technology. Subsequent missions would leverage the existing base to enable longer stays and more extensive exploration.
Mission phases of a toehold strategy
A Mars toehold mission would proceed through several phases, combining robotic and human-tended elements to create a sustainable outpost.
Phase 1: Robotic infrastructure deployment
Launch: A series of heavy-lift launches send robotic landers carrying equipment to Mars during a favorable launch window.
Resource manufacturing: The landers use the Sabatier process to combine hydrogen (brought from Earth) with carbon dioxide from the Martian atmosphere to produce methane fuel and water.
Habitation and systems: The landers also deploy a basic habitat, a surface rover, power systems, and life support equipment for the arriving crew.
Phase 2: Initial crewed mission
Crew transit: An Earth Return Vehicle (ERV) and the crew transit habitat are launched into low-Earth orbit (LEO) and transferred to a Mars trajectory.
Mars arrival: The crew enters Mars orbit and performs a rendezvous with the surface habitat.
Surface stay: The crew spends 30 days on the surface, performing initial reconnaissance, confirming systems, and evaluating the ISRU-produced fuel.
Return journey: The crew ascends from the surface in the Mars Ascent Vehicle (MAV), which was pre-fueled by the ISRU plant, and returns to Earth in the ERV.
Phase 3: Extended exploration and base expansion
Expansion: Subsequent crewed missions expand the base using additional pre-deployed robotic systems.
Infrastructure development: Infrastructure such as additional pressurized rovers, power plants, and laboratory modules are added, enabling longer and more ambitious missions.
Extended stays: With more robust infrastructure, astronauts can conduct longer stays (e.g., 300+ sols) to perform deeper scientific research"

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#7 2025-09-22 14:15:33

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,722

Re: Starboat

AI Overview     
120 metric tons (mt) of methane and liquid oxygen (LOX) refer to a rocket propellant combination used in advanced launch vehicles, most notably SpaceX's Starship. This type of fuel system has several advantages that make it a compelling choice for future reusable rockets and interplanetary missions. Context: The Starship system For context, the propellant load for the upper stage of SpaceX's Starship spacecraft is 1,500 metric tons, consisting of 330 mt of liquid methane and 1,170 mt of liquid oxygen.

A quantity of 120 mt would be roughly 8% of the total propellant load for the upper stage. Advantages of a methane-LOX propellant system Enables reusability: Unlike kerosene (RP-1), which burns "dirty" and leaves behind soot, methane burns cleanly. This greatly reduces engine wear and turnaround time between flights, which is essential for reusable rockets.

Refuelable on Mars:
Methane can be manufactured on Mars by processing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and water ice from the planet's surface using the Sabatier process. This "in-situ resource utilization" (ISRU) removes the need to bring return fuel from Earth, which significantly lowers the cost and complexity of a Mars mission.High performance: While less efficient than liquid hydrogen by mass, liquid methane provides a higher specific impulse (\(I_{sp}\)) than kerosene. Its high density also allows for smaller and lighter propellant tanks compared to hydrogen, which more than makes up for the difference in specific impulse.

Reduced operational complexity:
The boiling points of methane and LOX are relatively close, so they can be stored in tanks separated by only a common bulkhead. This allows for more compact and structurally efficient vehicle designs compared to rockets using liquid hydrogen, which is much colder and requires heavier, highly insulated tankage. Considerations and challenges Ignition source needed: Methane and oxygen are not hypergolic, meaning they require an ignition source to start the combustion process. This adds complexity compared to hypergolic fuels that ignite on contact.

Explosion risk:
Methane and LOX are miscible, meaning they can mix together. Because there is little data on the explosive potential of this combination, launch agencies like the FAA have funded research to better understand the risks and ensure public safety.

Cryogenic handling:
Both propellants are cryogenic and require specialized handling to keep them in a liquid state. This is especially challenging for long-duration missions where propellant boil-off must be managed. The significance of "120 mt" The phrase "120 mt of methane and lox" does not represent a standard rocket load, but it is a plausible amount for a single tanker run to an orbital depot. During on-orbit refueling, a Starship could top off its tanks with more propellant to reach a higher-energy target like the Moon or Mars. For example: 

Orbital refueling:
A tanker Starship could deliver a portion of its fuel to another spacecraft already in orbit.Mission segment: It could represent the propellant needed for a specific maneuver, such as a Mars ascent stage or a lunar lander's return trip.

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