Trump’s Order Turns Family Separation Into Family Imprisonment

EdwardHeisler · 2018-06-21 11:32:36

It also opens up military bases as detention centers and indicates an intention to reopen the Flores settlement.
By Julianne Hing
June 20, 2018
The Nation

President Trump is fond of executive orders. So often does he sign them that the American public is by now familiar with the image of Trump seated in the Oval Office with his felt-tipped markers, forcing his Sharpie signature across a page, then holding the leather-bound document up for the cameras. The act has theatrical value, which appeals to his authoritarian predilections. A president signing an executive order can almost look like a king issuing a fiat.

On Wednesday, Trump signed another such order. He caved to an overwhelming outcry from a widespread group of critics that came to include the pope and former first lady Laura Bush and announced that his administration would end the policy of separating children from parents at the border. “Anybody with a heart feels very strongly about it,” Trump said shortly after signing the executive order. “At the same time, we don’t want people coming in illegally. This takes care of the problem.”

But like so much else in Trumpland, there is how something appears, and how something actually operates in reality. In the hours between the announcement of the order and its actual release, many hailed the change as an about-face—a stunning and rare pivot for a president who has little capacity to admit error. But now that the executive order is out, what is clear is that this document offers no fix at all. The Trump administration intends to trade the practice of separating children while it prosecutes parents for another kind of horror: locking up parents and children together. And, according to the executive order, this new incarceration of families could well be indefinite.

“This Administration will initiate proceedings to enforce…criminal provisions of the INA until and unless Congress directs otherwise,” the executive order lays out. “It is also the policy of this Administration to maintain family unity, including by detaining families together where appropriate and consistent with law and available resources.”

What’s missing from the executive order is an acknowledgement that the crisis was one of the Trump administration’s own making. No court order or law from Congress required these prosecutions, and it didn’t take an executive order to stop that practice. But what’s more, this executive order only doubles down on the administration’s cruelty.

The practice of separating children from their parents is a symptom of Attorney General Jeff Sessions’ “zero-tolerance policy” announced this spring. Under Sessions’s new rules, US attorneys now must criminally prosecute every person apprehended while attempting to enter the country between official ports of entry without proper documentation. But because many people come to the United States as families and because there are restrictions on how long children and parents may be held together, the government separated children from their parents, treating separated children as “unaccompanied minors.” The executive order does not affect that zero-tolerance policy at all; those prosecutions will continue.

Parents and babies are still going to be incarcerated while those prosecutions continue; it just appears that now they will be held together. And under the executive order, any public agency, including the Bureau of Prisons and the Department of Defense—which would mean the federal prison system and military bases—must make its facilities available for the incarceration of these families.

What’s more, the executive order announces that the Trump administration intends to petition a court to revisit the landmark 1997 Flores settlement, which set forth minimum conditions for the treatment and detention of migrant children. The centerpiece of Flores requires that children be released from government custody as quickly as possible. Separately, it requires that those who are held have access to education, health care and recreation, and that they not be kept in confinement. The Trump administration wants to dismantle those minimum child-welfare protections so that it can, in the words of the executive order, “detain alien families together throughout the pendency of criminal proceedings for improper entry or any removal or other immigration proceedings.”

But, because Flores is still current law, the Department of Homeland Security is still bound by it, and cannot detain children for longer than is absolutely necessary to find a placement for them outside of detention. Therefore, “this Executive Order is a restatement of current policy, which is to prosecute, detain, and quickly deport Central American asylum seekers,” says Kerri Talbot, legislative director for Immigration Hub, a DC-based, pro-immigration umbrella group.

The last decade of this country’s attempt at running family detention centers has been filled with scandal and litigation. Most recently, a family facility DHS ran in Artesia, New Mexico, was shut down in 2014 after legal groups argued that the appalling conditions and due-process violations were unlawful.

“I remember how I felt sick to my stomach when we walked through the cafeteria, and I saw nothing but a stack of high chairs as far as the eye could see,” Karen Tumlin, director of legal strategy at the National Immigration Law Center, said of her first visit to the Artesia facility. Tumlin was one of the first attorneys to gain access to the center.

If the Trump administration gets its way, he will trade one form of cruelty for another. This executive order is not the administration backing down, and there is very little in the way of a pivot. It is the Trump administration pursuing the very same strategy that led to this crisis in the first place.

https://www.thenation.com/article/trump … rceration/

Last edited by EdwardHeisler (2018-06-21 11:35:22)

EdwardHeisler · 2018-06-21 11:33:39

Will the Trump government reopen the WWII Japanese Internment Camps to jail asylum seekers and their children?

AAyX4Jr.img?h=1066&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=1851&y=490

Last edited by EdwardHeisler (2018-06-21 11:54:17)

SpaceNut · 2018-06-21 18:53:43

The backlash from many and the trips to see first hand have led to another executive order one that just stops seperation of illegals from there children.
Of course the zero tolerance was a flop as a deterent to slow or stop the illegal crossing and was sort of cruel. It is clear that the chances to reunite all of the 2300 plus children back to there familes many take quite a while.

The Trump administration has no system in place to ever reunite the migrant families it has been separating under the "zero-tolerance" policy. When migrant parents and their children are split up at the border, they entered two completely separate legal processes.

Implementing the directive hinges in part on whether U.S. District Judge Dolly Gee in Los Angeles agrees to amend a 21-year-old agreement -- known as the Flores settlement -- that restricts the government’s handling of undocumented minors. The settlement prohibits authorities from detaining immigrant children for more than 20 days, even with their parents.

What a difference a day seemed to make for immigrants suspected of illegal border crossing. Same court, different outcomes in Texas after Trump order on families

Sounds to me like there will be some more court case reversals for those that already have been seen before the courts.

The day before at a hearing in the same courthouse, U.S. Magistrate Judge Leon Schydlower ordered two adults who entered the country with children to remain in custody on charges of suspected illegal entry.
The judge's order came about two hours before President Donald Trump changed course on Wednesday. Trump, who had staunchly defended his policy of separating parents and children who cross the border from Mexico illegally, signed an executive order to end such separations.
"I don't know where the children are and the men do not know where the children are," said Sergio Garcia, an assistant federal public defender for the two.
Manuel Cabrera, 46, came from Honduras with his 6-year-old son, and Abraham Chaj-Us, 24, came with his 15-year-old sister and two brothers, aged 8 and 9.

kbd512 · 2018-06-22 12:52:20

The pictures of crying children taken from La Raza protests or the activities of similar criminal subversive groups, and subsequently used by our subversive communist media for dramatic effect to support their criminal agenda. It certainly makes for good TV when shown to people too ignorant to ask any questions. I guess some people think a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth.

The Japanese were actually American citizens. For whatever reason, there were few protests and virtually no media coverage when a Democrat decided to lock up a bunch of American citizens for being of Japanese ancestry. President Trump wants to make sure illegal alien children aren't being trafficked as sex slaves by illegal alien adults, but I guess that's too difficult for Democrats to comprehend when they just want more votes to put their favorite criminals in office. I guess they'll start claiming our government is permitting illegal alien children to be trafficked as sex slaves next since we're not bothering to determine relationships now.

Asylum seekers only have to walk up to border patrol agents and request asylum to be granted a hearing, but that's not what they're doing. If you're detained by USBP at the border, then you're obviously coming to America. Since most of the people seeking asylum were already out of their host countries when they traveled hundreds of miles through Mexico without being arrested by the Mexican Policia, they obviously already had asylum in Mexico and the argument that they were seeking asylum in America is invalid. Nobody who sneaks across the border in the middle of the night, far from a port of entry, is seeking asylum. They're trying to prevent law enforcement from doing its job. We don't know which of those asylum seekers are criminals who have brought children to sell as sex slaves and which are simply fleeing their utopias so they can live in RBX America and vote for Democrats who want to return them to the utopian living conditions they fled from.

Why would anyone come to America with a RBX President as terrible as President Trump when they could live in a communist paradise like Mexico, Venezuela, or Honduras?

SpaceNut · 2018-06-22 17:13:27

A coin has to sides and both sides have just as many lies going on. The president and allies have falsely claimed that families are being separated because of an anti-trafficking law that passed unanimously in 2008 under President George W. Bush (Trump has incorrectly labeled it a Democratic bill) and a 1997 legal settlement under President Bill Clinton regulating treatment of minors at the border. Under President Barack Obama, officials responded to an increase in families from Central America at the border seeking asylum by putting them together in family detention, which ran into legal and logistical problems. Since then, the typical policy has been to release families into a supervised program while their cases were adjudicated.

Had a good laugh at seeing the tiny puny little immigrant versus that giant Trump in comparison as it was to depic the fear of the immigrants when they cross the border.

The story line of interment camps on militrary bases are just fake media articles repeated exageration..

Have not heard of any asylum being granted by mexico to any of them. Indigenous people in Mexico face widespread discrimination and a lack of equal opportunity so why would some one traveling through there country be granted anything. If they request asylum in Mexico, and their request is granted, they would be ineligible for asylum in the U.S.

While President Trump wants to make sure illegal alien children aren't being trafficked as sex slaves there have been a few bad apples that have done just that and other terrible things to them once in custody.

There are news stories of sedation at some of the places that children have been brought to, a chemical straight jacket which is not court ordered and is not legal.

As stated in one article they come out of fear as they get no help where they are coming from and know that they will recieve it once they are here. To a degree this is humanitarism aid that they are getting.

There have been a few court cases that have been dismissed already for illegally crossing the border mostly with those that had children.

The 20 day law on the books was due to deploreable conditions in the orphanages which were used.

The Flores vs. Meese settlement requires the U.S. to release immigrant children or house them in the "least restrictive environment." A juvenile immigrant cannot be detained for more than an estimated 72 hours unless they are a significant flight risk or a danger to themselves or others.

kbd512 · 2018-06-22 22:06:49

SpaceNut,

I feel awful that there are governments in the 21st century who treat their citizens so poorly that they think their only recourse is to flee for their very lives. However, we are not responsible for every bad decision other people make regarding who will government them and how they're governed. I wish our immigration system wasn't so brain dead, but WE, THE PEOPLE voted for the representatives who made it what is and continue to ignore the fundamental problems. Voting one political party into power over the other will not solve any of this. New thinking is required. I make a regular habit of voting out the incumbent. I seldom get the result I'm after, but at least I'm trying. The more we can make serving in the legislature a one or two term proposition at most, the better life will be for everyone, including immigrants, legal or otherwise.

I served 6 years in the Navy. I provided my service as best I knew how and then it was time to move on and learn how to make my way in the real world outside of government. I feel the same way about the rest of our government. You do what's required of you, the very few who truly should stay and deserve to stay can stay, but everyone else does their duty and goes home to learn what it's like to live like everyone else does. That should be the model for most who serve us, in whatever capacity. People like Admiral Hyman Rickover need to stay in their position until they drop dead because we can't just walk down to Annapolis and pluck out another Rickover to take his place. Glossing over all the details, he was forced out of his position for demanding a level of excellence in the men and women who served us that few could meet. He wasn't there to make friends, kiss up to superiors, nor even piss on his subordinates. He was there to ensure that the people walking out the door of his school were 100% capable and committed to the awesome responsibility of operating nuclear powered vessels. In short, he demanded critical thinking and prudent action from all who were involved. That's what must be demanded of those who serve us because it is the only standard worthy of our people. I'll step off of my soapbox now...

I wish we knew who we were dealing with at the border, but nobody has any papers, not even a birth certificate, stating where they're from. If we can't even determine where someone came from when we pick them up, why are we to simply trust that their intentions are benign? When law enforcement catches up to a citizen who's already broken the law, should they simply assume that everything else is a-ok, or should they be immediately suspicious of whatever else might be going on that they don't know about? If we don't know the person we've picked up for illegally crossing the border, we're not going to simply take anyone's word that they were just out for a stroll, got lost, and didn't know where they ended up. That lead balloon isn't flying here.

If you want to know why I despise socialism in all its various forms so much, it's quite simple. All the well-intentioned (I hope, because the alternative is pure evil) ideas in the world that run directly contrary to what we already know will work from a social or economic perspective are not to be held up on a pedestal as an example for the rest of the world to follow. We've tried all these other forms of governance multiple times. History isn't changing to suit anyone's personal political proclivities. We hit upon something that works well enough to keep people from starving to death or being the victims of mob or government violence. There's nothing perfect about it, nor will it ever be perfect, but no other general form of governance can make that claim. If communism is capable of improving the lot in life of the common man or woman, then there'd be a little more human progress associated with countries that attempted to inculcate communist political ideology. Unfortunately there's not and the typical results were every bit as horrifying as what went on in Nazi Germany. That's not a part of the past that we want to revisit.

I've grown tired of the political games and pointing of fingers at one man, as if he's caused all of the world's problems, because people don't like what he says or how he says it. You don't have to agree with every word the President says to understand that we didn't elect some green eyed monster who hates everyone. He's pissed off that the people we elect keep screwing over the people they're supposed to represent and thought he could do a better job. Maybe he's wrong. Time will tell.

My mother's father never lived to see the day that the two Koreas were no longer at war with each other, but thanks to the efforts of all involved, including our current administration, there is finally a formal declaration to the end of hostilities. There is a chance, however fleeting, at lasting peace. If we get nothing else out of this administration, I think that was worth having. If we could get the people in the Middle East to come to the table, or at least agree that they have common cause over the few who wish to murder everyone over there, that'd be even better. Russia is a bit of a conundrum. I think we should simply leave them alone and see if they leave us alone. Whenever we engage in games with them, they reciprocate. When we stop, they stop. Let's just stop screwing with everyone, bring our military home, and see what happens. We've tried everything else, so why not this?

The real problems American society has are coming to a head and need to be fixed. President Trump is willing to play ball and cut deals with both political parties, but both political parties are throwing a fit over the fact that he won the election and their candidate of choice didn't. Throwing fits over milk spilled two years ago is stupid and pointless. The media, nearly all of them, have ceased to perform their function of simply asking pointed questions and presenting the responses, instead of disseminating propaganda that suits their corporation's political proclivities. Agendas are not news. I don't even read much news on the internet these days because it's a waste of time.

SpaceNut · 2018-06-23 10:57:01

We did pull Noriega from Panama as an invasion to oust a dictator
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St … _of_Panama
The action did correct that problem of corruption from continuing.

From the likes of the current wave of imigrants it would appear that more US actions are needed to correct those other nations in between the US and panama. (Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua and Costa Rica)

Thank you for your service of 6 years as its way more than most do now, which includes the years from when they stopped the draft, lotteries and registrations of the 70's to current. I fall into the latter in each, as when I graduated there was no draft, no lottery and no registration...I now service in a different capacity as a civilian now going on nearly a decade of service to those that do; making upgrades and repairs to the machines that are used by the Navy. Ensuring that the equipment works the first time and everytime.

Admiral Hyman Rickover's axioms and rules that are noted to be 7 and up tp 16 which have been attributed to reviews of the Thresher sinking as a means to correct complacency and to stilmulate a questioning additude.

Our men that are abroad have become the face of the worlds police force under the UN and cooperation between the allies of which has been a stabilizing force. Pulling out of some of the locations would be a destabilizer as our presence influences what goes on in those areas.

Terraformer · 2018-06-23 13:19:25

I wouldn't call the US military a "stabilising force". Iraq seemed more stable under Saddam Hussein. Libya was a lot more stable before the bombs started dropping, too.

SpaceNut · 2018-06-23 19:56:50

Sort of expected this to eventually happen under the no tolerance on the borders.

Jogger detained for 2 weeks after accidentally crossing US-Canada border

Cedella Roman, 19, was visiting her mother when she went for a jog last month just south of White Rock, British Columbia, and continued jogging into Blaine, Washington,

So on the edge of the beach high off the sand must be a marker that indicates the border?

EdwardHeisler · 2018-06-23 21:05:43

SpaceNut wrote:

Sort of expected this to eventually happen under the no tolerance on the borders.
Jogger detained for 2 weeks after accidentally crossing US-Canada border
Cedella Roman, 19, was visiting her mother when she went for a jog last month just south of White Rock, British Columbia, and continued jogging into Blaine, Washington,
So on the edge of the beach high off the sand must be a marker that indicates the border?

Yes. It says "EXTREME DANGER! THIS IS TRUMP LAND! ENTER THE UNITED STATES AT YOUR OWN RISK!"

SpaceNut · 2018-06-24 19:42:46

The lies keep coming with regards to executive orders and what is being done down on the border as children are being still detained seperate from the parent with some being deported while child is still being held being sited in news stories.

It is said that Trump administration says it has plan to reunite 2,053 separated children still in custody to which two federal agencies said 522 children have already been returned to their parents, and the government would allow mothers and fathers facing deportation to request that their children are sent home with them.

Under the Trump administration's "zero-tolerance" crackdown on illegal immigration, parents who cross illegally with children have been sent to face criminal prosecution while their kids are assigned to foster care facilities run by Health and Human Services.
The parents are typically then transferred to adult immigration jails run by ICE, with little ability to know where their children are nor how to regain custody. The lack of coordination between the two agencies has led to weeks of confusion and swelling numbers of children in government care who were at risk of being stranded in American foster care, thousands of miles from their parents.
Now, under the government's new plan, parents will receive more information about the whereabouts of their children and telephone operators will facilitate more frequent communication, according to the statement.

Thou the reality of it is that Trump advocates depriving undocumented immigrants of due-process rights arguing that people who cross the border into the United States illegally must immediately be deported without trial — and sowing more confusion among Republicans ahead of a planned immigration vote this week.

Now Trump is saying that he wants the illegals to give up there rights, in order to be reunited and deported as a family....

Terraformer · 2018-06-25 14:55:16

Why would you need a trial? They're not being punished, they're being evicted. If someone breaks into your house and tries to squat it, you shouldn't need to go through a court trial to remove them.

EdwardHeisler · 2018-06-25 17:38:58

Terraformer wrote:

Why would you need a trial? They're not being punished, they're being evicted. If someone breaks into your house and tries to squat it, you shouldn't need to go through a court trial to remove them.

Due process is part of our Constitution. Every person, citizen and non-citizen is entitled to due process under our Bill of Rights and Constitution. No person can be deprived of their rights and liberty without due process. That is true in all nations that are not strongman personal or military dictatorships.

The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution each contain a due process clause. Due process deals with the administration of justice and thus the due process clause acts as a safeguard from arbitrary denial of life, liberty, or property by the government outside the sanction of law. The Supreme Court of the United States interprets the clauses more broadly, concluding that these clauses provide four protections: procedural due process (in civil and criminal proceedings), substantive due process, a prohibition against vague laws, and as the vehicle for the incorporation of the Bill of Rights.

The due process clauses apply to both natural persons as well as to "legal persons" (that is, corporate personhood) as well as to individuals, including both citizens and non-citizens. The Fifth Amendment due process was first applied to corporations in 1893 by the Supreme Court in Noble v. Union River Logging.[14] Noble was preceded by Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad in 1886. The due process clauses also apply to non-citizens who are within the United States – no matter whether their presence may be or is "unlawful, involuntary or transitory"[15] – although the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized that non-citizens can be stopped, detained, and denied past immigration officials at points of entry (e.g. at a port or airport) without the protection of the Due Process Clause because, while technically on U.S. soil, they are not considered to have entered the United States.

Undocumented immigrants who are arrested by the government are not given a trial, unlike someone who has broken into your home. That person is charged with violating laws and are entitled to a trial by jury. Undocumented immigrants appear before special immigration law judges who make a binding decision on each case without a trial. That confirms to the letter and meaning of the Constitution requiring legal due process for everyone in the United States, citizen or not.

SpaceNut · 2018-06-25 19:01:47

Terraformer wrote:

Why would you need a trial? They're not being punished, they're being evicted. If someone breaks into your house and tries to squat it, you shouldn't need to go through a court trial to remove them.

Even a renter whether its by the week , month or via a lease agreement once they stop payment still can stay intil the courts throw you out and its even harder in the winter when this could occur.

Basic rights are part of every persons and is due to the incidences of the world wars and treatment that one might recieve as part of world law.

As I reported once they appear before a judge some are being released with time served and a small fine. Reminds me of the old Night court TV show ($50 and time severd)...

Create townships and programs along the border to act as buffer where in order to obtain the citizenship they wish to be able to go anywhere in America they must complete. Here they learn while working an area that benefits all in there communities under the guardianship of protection by law.

Then introduce the counter part of a program across the border for the same reasons with guards to protect the region while we transform Mexico into a nation of less corruption by people that stay to work there rather than running across the border. Make this south of the border large with each passing year.

SpaceNut · 2018-06-25 20:23:49

The trips to the ICE detention centers for the children ripped away from there parents was enough for Congressman Mark Pocan, so angered by recent visit calls to Eliminate nation's immigration-enforcement agency, ICE its actions of hunting down and tearing apart families, has wreaked havoc on far too many people.

Pocan's plan calls for creating "a commission to provide recommendations to Congress on how the U.S. government can implement a humane immigration enforcement system that upholds the dignity of all individuals, while transferring necessary functions to other agencies."
"President Trump and his team of white nationalists, including Stephen Miller, have so misused ICE that the agency can no longer accomplish its goals effectively." "kid prisons," used to detain children separated from their parents in cages he said are “similar construction to the dog run in my backyard.”
Pocan does not favor an "open borders" immigration policy and that the proposed new commission would tackle "what existing agencies would enforce U.S. immigration laws."
"Eliminating ICE does not mean eliminating laws, it just means the agency could not be used as a tool by the president to conduct raids and terrorize immigrant families,"

Terraformer · 2018-06-26 06:08:51

How is deporting an illegal immigrant depriving them of their rights and liberty? They don't have a *right* to live in the US, that's why it's called *illlegal* immigrantion.

Not "undocumented". If someone goes for a joyride, we don't say they have "undocumented possession" of the car. Squatters don't have "undocumented tenancies".

SpaceNut · 2018-06-26 17:34:08

The ‘Human Rights Up Front’ Initiative is an initiative by the UN Secretary-General to ensure the UN system takes early and effective action, as mandated by the Charter and UN resolutions, to prevent or respond to serious and large-scale violations of human rights or international humanitarian law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati … cal_Rights

The covenant commits its parties to respect the civil and political rights of individuals, including the right to life, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, electoral rights and rights to due process and a fair trial.

http://www.un.org/en/sections/what-we-d … index.html

I also am reading about a lawyer representative from Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) that was assaulted while trying to reunify the child with its parents for talking to a 3 year old detainee by an ICE agent and was kept from medical attentions. It appears that there are many rouge agents that are being Trumps personnel secret police army.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-05-06 06:15:34

The Biden Admin does not know what to do

President Biden can even say India and Japanese are racists, say Russia and China are racists or call an ally Japan 'xenophobic' and the media won't hit him as hard as they hit Trump with articles and news broadcast items

Europe has its own problems now

In England there were British votes

One shouted what seems to be an islamic warcry claiming the Moongod al-Lah superior
'We will raise the voice of Palestine. Allahu Akbar!'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … mands.html

beheadings in France, shootings, rapes, Churches burn to the ground. Macron order's riot squad goons to beat up old people, vehicle ramming attacks, a new 'normal'

but they have booze, pot, soap opera and soccer to keep them busy

'PSG hit by cyber attack ahead of Champions League match as security increases after ISIS bomb threat'

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football … 553981.amp

Islamists rally for German 'Caliphate' in Hamburg

https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/274 … in-hamburg

in the USA

Biden blasted by restaurant owner over border crisis and says it's turned 'family-friendly' desert town into hotbed of crime
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … sness.html

Trump’s Plan To Deport 11 Million Undocumented Immigrants Impossible
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andyjsemot … mpossible/

How would Trump crack down on immigration in a second term?
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/how-tr … 023-11-14/

Trump says he wouldn’t give Mexican president ’10 cents’ following demand of $20 billion to shut down border
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2024/04/01 … r-1449203/

Everyone knew they would get a loud hot head with Trump, he seemed at times to have a way of shout and blurting stuff Tourette's Syndrome while the media entered its own delusion, mania or derangement syndrome. The other extreme were the Obama years coming after 'Patriot Act' Bush junior years, Obama years where you could not say anything without a 'racist' tangent brought up, you could not criticize islamists so the diverse open border mob started to say. Trump at times seemed to lack the sleazy dealer mindset that leaders had and other nations use, when it was time to keep quiet he would shoot is mouth off, offensive at times but it was interesting to see political correctness broken.

When you see the level of human trafficking, drugs and crime coming across the border maybe some of what Trump said was correct even if it was insulting. There have been massive swings between left and right, I would hope a centrist party person would come along but the same old two are running again, its not just in the USA everywhere in the West you can see examples of the possibility of democracy eventually failing.

Trump-
quote
“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people”

because Donald Trump was so different to Oabam and said such shocking statements it was easy for a dishonest media to edit and twist his words to make them seem even worse

Tim Kaine falsely says Trump said 'all Mexicans are rapists'
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 … icans-are/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-05-06 06:46:52)

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