Religion on Mars - The role of religious beliefs on Mars...

Byron · 2002-06-10 18:11:59

Here's a new topic I think deserves discussion...Religion.

I'm not too keen on religion myself, but I know it's unreasonable to think that it won't be a big influence in early Martian settlement, especially since it'll be one of the few things they will be able to bring from Earth without limit...religious belief doesn't have mass..lol.

Seriously, however, what do you think will happen as Mars is settled by the early pioneers? Will one religion predominate over the others and be a part of "common society," (like Christianity in the U.S.) or will it be a personal, private thing, with no churches or public facilities present in the community at large?

I've always thought that the Mormons would make great early Mars settlers, due to their "beehive" mentality. They have a very tightly-knit society, they help all those in need, the common good supercedes individual desires...all the qualities that would be needed to make a Mars pioneering settlement succeed and thrive.

Let me know what you think....

Palomar · 2002-06-11 10:39:11

I think it's "a given" that most people will take some religious sentiment with them to Mars; some will take the faith of their childhood upbringing, if they still adhere to it, and others their newer religious sentiments (perhaps acquired after breaking away from a childhood upbringing or upon discovering for themselves their own religious values and sentiments).

I personally think a religious *group* of people settling Mars -- with an established history of exclusivism, separatist practices and attitudes, proselytizing, etc. -- are not good candidates for settling Mars. They work well with each other, true; but how well will they work with the "outsiders" or "heretics" who come later? Probably not too well.

The types of persons I'd like to see initially settle, and then eventually colonize, Mars are the sorts of persons you find in Sir Arthur C. Clarke's novels: Intelligent, sophisticated, humanitarian, agnostic, INCLUSIVE, etc.

--Cindy

clark · 2002-06-11 12:17:42

You describe the ideal Martian Colonist:

The types of persons I'd like to see initially settle, and then eventually colonize, Mars are the sorts of persons you find in Sir Arthur C. Clarke's novels: Intelligent, sophisticated, humanitarian, agnostic, INCLUSIVE, etc.

Then you describe the non-ideal Martian Colonist:

I personally think a religious *group* of people settling Mars -- with an established history of exclusivism, separatist practices and attitudes, proselytizing, etc. -- are not good candidates for settling Mars.

1. Isn't proselytizing a means of inclusion?
2. By setting up criteria for "types", are you not perpetuating your own form of exclusivism?
3. How is any religious group not "humanitarian"?

I forsee several possibilities for the development of religion on Mars.
1. Only one form of a religious belief is practiced within a certain area (like a dome).
2. All forms, or multiple forms of religious belief are accepted and tolerated.

Both options are predicated on the reality of the Martian environment. Becuase of the dangerous situation of living in vacum, lack of personal space, forced cohabitation of public space between many different view-points, a level of communication and tolerance MUST be ensured on Mars. Either they say, we all think this way, and noother viewp points are allowed, in order to avoid the tension of disparate views- or, they become exceedingly tolerant of each other in order to avoid the tension of disparate views.

Why avoid the tension?

Well, imagine if everyone in your town carried an A-bomb. How rude do you think people would be? On Mars, at any point really, ONE person can kill EVERYONE else. It is in everyone's best interest to get a long, or at least tolerate others- becuase the repercussions are exact and final.

Phobos · 2002-06-11 14:22:57

I've often contemplated myself the role that spirituality will play on Mars. I don't think it's out of the question that if technology develops to the point that common people can afford to go to Mars that there will be religious colonies there. I can see a lot of cults and "lesser" religions running off to Mars to escape a world they may see as immoral or oppressive or simply because they think the isolation would enhance their spirituality. The same was generally true of the USA. Groups like the Quakers, Puritans, Jews, etc, founded colonies in the New World because they were either oppressed or disagreed with the morality of their old countries. Anyways, I think it's possible that various religions will be able to co-exist peacefully on Mars. Look at the USA, as much as people like to think we all hate each other and riot over religious issues, I really don't see much animosity towards people of other religions. Really I think differences in political opinion will breed much more intolerance and hatred then religious differences will. I know plenty of Christians who would tear each other to shreds because of their political differences.

Palomar · 2002-06-11 14:50:48

Clark: You describe the ideal Martian Colonist:

Me: The types of persons I'd like to see initially settle, and then eventually colonize, Mars are the sorts of persons you find in Sir Arthur C. Clarke's novels: Intelligent, sophisticated, humanitarian, agnostic, INCLUSIVE, etc.

Clark: Then you describe the non-ideal Martian Colonist:

Me: I personally think a religious *group* of people settling Mars -- with an established history of exclusivism, separatist practices and attitudes, proselytizing, etc. -- are not good candidates for settling Mars.

Clark: 1. Isn't proselytizing a means of inclusion?

*It's an attempt at limited, controlled inclusion into an ex-clusive group.

Clark: 2. By setting up criteria for "types", are you not perpetuating your own form of exclusivism?

*No, I don't think so. Everyone has their ideals. And it's not for me to say who is welcome on Mars and who isn't. The people of my ideal would be willing to work/cooperate with, say, the Mormon settlers, simply because they are fellow humans...however, the Mormon settlers might refuse to work/cooperate with non-Mormon settlers on the basis of their religious sentiments.

Clark: 3. How is any religious group not "humanitarian"?

*The Inquisition, the Crusades, Al-Qaeda, the Taliban...

Clark: I forsee several possibilities for the development of religion on Mars.

*Me, too...unfortunately. I applaud Sir Arthur C. Clarke for having had the guts to entitle one of the chapters in his Odyssey series "Deicide."

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01

Phobos · 2002-06-11 22:16:27

*No, I don't think so. Everyone has their ideals. And it's not for me to say who is welcome on Mars and who isn't. The people of my ideal would be willing to work/cooperate with, say, the Mormon settlers, simply because they are fellow humans...however, the Mormon settlers might refuse to work/cooperate with non-Mormon settlers on the basis of their religious sentiments.

Someone could say the same though of fanatical political sects. The deadliest wars of the 20th Century were fought over political differences, not religious ones. Some people cling to their political philosophies with the same mindless and destructive fervor as some people do with their religious beliefs. You have to be wary of letting in lunatics of any stripe, regardless of their beliefs, religious, political, or whatever. Anyways, if mass colonization ever becomes a reality, it's likely no one group will be able to pick and choose who goes to Mars. You'll probably have Buddhist retreats along with Marxist and Libertarian settlements all residing apart in their respective little domes or whatever.

Palomar · 2002-06-12 08:32:58

Phobos wrote: "Someone could say the same though of fanatical political sects. The deadliest wars of the 20th Century were fought over political differences, not religious ones. Some people cling to their political philosophies with the same mindless and destructive fervor as some people do with their religious beliefs. You have to be wary of letting in lunatics of any stripe, regardless of their beliefs, religious, political, or whatever."

*I couldn't agree with you more.

--Cindy

anansi · 2002-06-14 17:42:28

I seriously doubt that martian colonists will have the luxery of worrying about the belief system of their neighbor.

A former submarine crew member told me an anlaogous story: The modern nucler submarine is so complicated and so interdepenant among its crew, that homosexual crew members are completely integrated socially among the crew. There simply isn't room for paranoia.

On another note, I think Sagan got it right with _Contact_: the religious ideas of those who are allowed into space might be of interest to the press, but ultimately the cost of discriminating against any particular faith will cost NASA (or the foreign equivalent) more support than it could afford.

Like sex in space, religion is going to be purely the business of the astronauts themselves, and I doubt they will find in their best interest to talk about it to the press.

Christina · 2002-06-16 04:00:54

Just don't confuse religion as the following of a particular way of expressing a belief, with Faith - the inner certainty of something other / higher than yourself.

Phobos · 2002-06-20 17:17:39

Just don't confuse religion as the following of a particular way of expressing a belief, with Faith - the inner certainty of something other / higher than yourself.

I think you bring up a good point. There are a lot of "spiritual" people who don't necessarily follow any particular religion. Anyways, the more you try to repress religion the more it tends to grow. Who knows, totally new religions and forms of spirituality might spring up on Mars. I don't think that's a bad thing necessarily. I like reading about Zen Buddhism and applying some of its tenets to my life even though I'm an atheist.

Palomar · 2002-06-21 11:20:04

Just don't confuse religion as the following of a particular way of expressing a belief, with Faith - the inner certainty of something other / higher than yourself.
I think you bring up a good point. There are a lot of "spiritual" people who don't necessarily follow any particular religion...I like reading about Zen Buddhism and applying some of its tenets to my life even though I'm an atheist.

*I can see your point. I'm an agnostic (only because I can't PROVE there is or isn't a higher being/God/whatever). Religion is out of the question for me.

As for "spirituality"...I do admire Taoism. It's practical, simple yet very profound, straight-forward, and I feel it is right on-par with life. I prefer to call Taoism a philosophy.

There's no evasion to it; no delusion; faith isn't a factor in it; there is no heirarchy within it (I'm the priest, you're a peon); there are no dogmas in it; it doesn't promote or encourage unrealistic attitudes or "goals".

But to each their own.

--Cindy

Phobos · 2002-06-21 13:10:35

There's no evasion to it; no delusion; faith isn't a factor in it; there is no heirarchy within it (I'm the priest, you're a peon); there are no dogmas in it; it doesn't promote or encourage unrealistic attitudes or "goals".

I like the same thing about Zen, its lack of dogmatism and its focus on the vitality of the moment, not to mention other things. Even though I think you could make an argument that Zen is anti-intellectual since it stresses feelings and experience over thinking, I still find it an emotionally satisfying philosophy with a lot of truth to it. You just have to take what you find valuable and chuck the rest. That's pretty much my philosophy toward religion.

Mark S · 2002-06-21 14:18:19

It's too early to say what role religion will play on Mars because nobody's worked out a plan for colonizing the planet yet. There might be groups of Pilgrims who set out for this new world to escape persecution and establish a colony where they can practice their own lifestyle. On the flip side, there might also be zealots who will attempt to create a theocratic government at any cost, even through "holy war."

But the most likely scenario is that the first colonists will be financed by a government space agency, and they will not practice any organized religion, as most scientists would. Religion will only come after the Martian frontier is opened to the masses (no pun intended.) It will be interesting then to see what the major religions on Earth do to reach out to their followers on Mars. Will the Catholic church appoint a Bishop for the diocese of Mars? At this point, who can say?

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-04-20 06:03:10

an old topic but the subject matter relevant today

Freedom away from islamist jihadi religions that spread like cancer, burn free thinking civilizations and oppress the freedom and rights of people

The Bengali islamist Rohingya jihad groups take over 1600 Hindus and 120 Buddhists hostage, yet it seems world media indifferent

https://www.newindianexpress.com/world/ … in-myanmar

The New Indian Express quotes a source: “With unrest and instability expanding to Buthidaung, the volatility has taken a new turn, with Islamic terror groups working at the behest of the military to kill and terrorize ethnic groups based on religion.

During the Trump era 2017, Hindu villages in a cluster known as Kha Maung Seik in the northern Maungdaw District of Rakhine State in Myanmar were attacked and 99 Bengali Hindu villagers were massacred by jihadi Mohammedan islamist insurgents wanting to create Sharia Law and form a type of ISIS terror break away state

ARSA has denied responsibility and rejected Amnesty's report saying the bodies are not there, ARSA is led by some islamic criminal pedophile terrorist guy an alien islamist foreigner born in Karachi, Pakistan, and grew up and was taught by terrorists in Mecca, Saudi Arabia

mass graves found containing the corpses of 45 Hindus, most of whom were women and children

'Israel and Iran: How radical governments in both countries have crossed all the red lines'
https://indianexpress.com/article/opini … s-9279550/

Pedophile abuses kids on Snapchat after early release
https://www.theleader.com.au/story/8586 … y-release/

outside of the Catholic crime circle

Archbishop of Canterbury suggests Prince Andrew wants to ‘make amends’
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 … ake-amends
Justin Welby made comment about the duke as he asked public to be more ‘open and forgiving’

Ukraine invasion cannot be ‘holy’, Church leaders tell Kirill
https://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/18591/ … ell-kirill
Western religious leaders condemned Patriarch Kirill of Moscow

Hindu nationalist Modi the favourite as India votes
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/hindu … 40298.html

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-04-20 06:03:35)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-05-02 16:19:21

A religious test for space exploration?

https://spacenews.com/religious-test-space-exploration/

An editorial recently published on SpaceNews took the position that my company’s Luna Memorial Spaceflight service should not be permitted on the Moon because the Navajo Nation views the Moon as sacred.
In essence, the author is arguing that lawful space missions should be subject to the religious test of a single culture.
The heart of the argument, however, really comes down to how we see our future and the moon’s role in it. Is the moon a celestial body meant only for science and passive art, as the author says, or is there a more robust future for our nearest neighbor?
That future would include human settlements, the use of lunar resources, manufacturing and energy generation – basically enabling us to begin our next step into the solar system. In that future, there is an important role for science, preservation and commerce.
Unless we (and all other nations) forgo human settlement on the Moon – any ban on human remains handling and disposition on the moon would be at most temporary. As we move off planet Earth, we will take all our celebrations, rituals and memorials with us, including our funerals and our memorial services, even as we create new ones. It’s unfathomable that Earth will be the only place that these important customs and celebrations will take place.
What is the Celestis Luna Memorial service?
It’s important to understand what our service is and what it is not. It is a memorial spaceflight that celebrates a life by placing DNA or a symbolic portion of cremated remains onboard a spacecraft bound to land on the moon.
The Celestis payload is composed of very small (one-fourth inch by one-half inch) aerospace-grade aluminum capsules holding 1 to 2 grams of cremated remains or DNA samples. These capsules are flight-proven and are thoroughly tested (vacuum and temperature) flight articles with secure closure.
The flight capsules are placed inside a separate container, designed and built by our service provider, integrated on a lunar-bound spacecraft and launched to a specified landing location where they remain permanently. They are not dispersed, released or otherwise scattered on the lunar service.
Celestis payloads often serve an active, important role for the spacecraft, including ballast and radiation protection.
Celestis payloads delivered to the moon are well within the current international legal framework. On four occasions to date, the United States government has approved our Luna Service. Prohibition would require new legislation which would clearly impinge on Americans’ First Amendment right to worship as they choose.
...

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-05-02 16:19:33)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-05-03 19:39:16

South Korea has made movement in space

in news
South Korea's nanosatellite launched from New Zealand for satellite constellation project
https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20240424001452320

some study depending on how it is published or worded claim South Korea is Atheist but maybe not...a lot seem to believe in something undefined maybe a religion belief they will not admit or a possible paranormal way of thinking or spirits, symbolism and compulsions and behavior. In Germanic and Scandanavia culture the Pig might have helped people get through a winter, there is a piggy bank small statue to keep money, in S.Korea "pig" is similar to the pronunciation for jade, so the pig is also synonymous with riches, some say to whistle summons ghosts another superstition says whistling at night will summon snakes instead of spirits, all Asian cultures seem to have a thing with chopsticks, incense sticks can be used in funeral ritual, chopsticks do not place them like an incense stick which are placed in bowls in a similar manner to honor deceased ancestors, there in modern society are animal superstition for example 'Crows' I'm not sure if they already had a Black Cat superstition or if this came from Hollywood or global political movements anarcho-politics symbols, however seeing glowing cat eyes reflect in the dark might be instinctively scary and spooky for many cultures, yet cats can also be seen as a positive hunting vermin in ancient Egypt, cats were revered.

another common theme I noticed in people 'Salt in Folk Magic' maybe someone in ancient discovered salt could protect meat or vegetables, maybe over time this knowledge spread not by science but protection against bad spirit...so instead of an understanding of medical procedure it was a 'ward' against a bad entity or ghost? the bigs and slug dont eat your crop, defeating Gastropoda instead of a scientific method alchemy or a 'magic' ritual Apotropaic magic to turn away harm or evil influences

Superstitions that Koreans Still Believe Today
https://theculturetrip.com/asia/south-k … ieve-today

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-05-03 20:35:47)

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Re: Religion on Mars - The role of religious beliefs on Mars...

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#12 2002-06-21 13:10:35

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