Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

Bill White · 2003-01-16 13:50:23

Unless the settlers on Mars are exceptionally sensitive, conscientious and courteous folks by comparison, people will need physical distance from each other.

100% Agreed!!

That is why I believe various "teams" for Mars missions should be formed only after all the expected NASA style screening, testing psych profiling etc. . .

-and-

each team should be locked away in near Mars social conditions for weeks or months to see just how they interact.

Being a sailor - I might suggest 10 weeks on a smallish sailboat out of sight of land or other humans - KSR uses a South Pole research base as a Mars analouge - many others exist. Adrian got a teeny tiny taste of this at MDRS and they had alcohol!

From among those teams deemed sufficiently qualified in all of the technical requirements, the team that is most "sensitive, conscientious and courteous" is chosen for the actual mission.

Harsh? Yes, but utterly necessary IMHO.

And I fully agree there should be as much actual physical privacy as can possibly be included in the designs.

clark · 2003-01-16 15:57:48

I believe Bill brings up some rather novel ideas, and practical to boot. The fact of the matter is space will be at a premium on mars (or space). As such, it becomes practical to maximize the available space in as many ways as possible.

I think the inclusion of private gardens is an elegant solution, and follows along lines of what a martian community should be centered around- community, individual, and life.

Josh Cryer · 2003-01-16 16:24:41

clark, what do you mean by the area for failure increases?

clark · 2003-01-16 16:30:08

As the complex increases in size, it neccessarily means that opportunites for failure increase.

Josh Cryer · 2003-01-16 16:38:53

Sure, but depending on the system, the redundancy of the system can increase... thus lowering the overwall failure rate.

If you have one big fan, and it breaks, you're screwed. The opportunity for overall system failure is very high. If you have a hundred fans, and one breaks, you're okay. The opportunirty for overall system failure is quite low.

soph · 2003-01-16 16:44:33

You have to find a balance between cost and redundancy too. But your point is valid. Redundancy is good-to an extent.

Josh Cryer · 2003-01-16 16:46:16

Cost has never been an issue for me.

The question is, is it worth the cost of a whole hab failing due to the failure of one ventalator?

clark · 2003-01-16 16:47:31

Cost has never been an issue for me.

Prudhon would be proud.

Josh Cryer · 2003-01-16 16:53:11

It's always about independence, bub.

I gotta go, I'll be back later on tonight to explain what I think about how things will be designed on Mars.

soph · 2003-01-16 16:55:41

Did I say redundancy is bad? Our designers will have cost as an issue, though, and thats really what counts.

Redundancy is good, and should be applied, but only to the extent where the budget of the mission can support it. If we have three backups for everything, we wont be sending much to mars. We also need to take some risks-not stupid ones where it isnt necessary, but risks are assumed.

clark · 2003-01-16 17:05:13

I believe we are discussing colonies- I don't believe "taking risks" is a good guiding principle when children are involved.

Remember, a colony is forever- so you have to look at man made high end technology with ever increasing levels of complexity lasting 20-50 years (and that is just INSIDE).

I also believe that available resources and ability to create the neccessary parts will be more of the limiting factor.

soph · 2003-01-16 17:08:12

Resources is part of cost. Cost doesnt necessarily mean money-so my initial statements are still quite valid.

But for an established colony, where children and families are involved, yes, risk must be kept to a minimum, but it will always be there. Thats what the frontier is all about. Families and children came to the New World, and encountered risks at every turn.

Bill White · 2003-01-16 22:19:34

I believe Bill brings up some rather novel ideas, and practical to boot. The fact of the matter is space will be at a premium on mars (or space). As such, it becomes practical to maximize the available space in as many ways as possible.

In Tokyo space is at a great premium - compared to Texas or New Mexico - and the Japanese do use things like rock gardens and have established customs when living in paper walled houses to establish psychic "zones of privacy" when actual physical privacy is difficult.

My uncle - a career Marine - married a Japanese woman while living in Okinawa and he has described to me some of the customs followed by families of 5 or more living in 1 and 2 room houses.

Just think about those folks hired to "push" riders into Tokyo subway cars to squeeze more people in per car per trip and they remain polite and civilzed throughout it all. How? Customs and social expectations.

dicktice · 2003-01-17 09:55:08

Resources is part of cost. Cost doesnt necessarily mean money-so my initial statements are still quite valid.
But for an established colony, where children and families are involved, yes, risk must be kept to a minimum, but it will always be there. Thats what the frontier is all about. Families and children came to the New World, and encountered risks at every turn.

With things like the internet and e-mail (future upgrades) the frontier won't be so isolated. Add saunas here and there for communal get-togethers (and a place to wash and dry your laundry), and jogging, and flying self-powered ultralight aircraft inside the domes and roofed-over canyon tributaries...why, lead me to it!

singerry · 2003-03-06 19:40:18

I just joined this forum/discussion/website whatever and read the postings on martian architecture with interest. I actually wrote my masters thesis in urban planning on this topic, it's really interesting stuff. I want to put in my vote for concrete as a building material. Light weight formwork can be dropped from Earth and used again and again.

I also want to float the idea of "tenting" between buildings creating an "outdoor" space between structures that could be used as storage, greenhouses, or a living environment. A settlement could grow organically like this: when new buildings are built more "outdoor" space would be created by covering the space between them and the existing structures.

The actual material used to create this space is a little unclear to me. I've read somewhere it would be made of kevlar to contain the pressure. Don't know how it manages the radiation.

Shaun Barrett · 2003-03-07 06:56:12

Welcome to New Mars, Singerry!
There's so much stuff here to read - thousands of posts - you could search for weeks to find threads which might match your interests.
You mentioned concrete and tenting materials, so you may be interested to check out some of the discussions over at "Life Support Systems". In particular, have a look at 'Domed Habitats', 'We need a brainstorming session', and 'Canyon Habitats'.

With your background, it's a pity you weren't here when all that stuff was being discussed. No doubt you could have helped us with a lot of the technical details.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-12-10 10:21:19

an old topic worth a bump maybe

NASA has an ambitious blueprint for building homes on the moon by 2040
https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/nasas … homes-2040

some other ideas and underground

Welcome to Vivos Europa One, the ultimate in luxury survival bunkers for the chosen few
https://luxurylaunches.com/buildings/we … en-few.php

Vivos Europa One, located in Germany, isn’t just for the rich, it’s for the super-elite rich as it’s a by-invitation-only five star set up built for those who want to wait out the end of the world or a nuclear holocaust, in style and comfort. Each of the chosen families will have their very own 2,500 square foot area of this highly fortified survival shelter (a relic of the Cold War) which can be further divided up into two floors doubling the space. The families can also have their dream underground bunker designed by an architect and contractor of their choice for a more personalised touch and could be decked out to look like a private bungalow underground; well not so much a bungalow as a small mansion complete with pools, theatres, gyms et al.

Vivos Europa One Sounds Like a Spaceship, But It’s Actually the Ultimate Underground Doomsday Bunker
https://www.techeblog.com/vivos-europa- … ay-bunker/
If price is no object, and survival is key, the Vivos Europa One underground bunker complex is exactly what you’ve been waiting for. Created by California entrepreneur Robert Vicino, this five-star shelter is located in the German village of Rothenstein. Each family will be provided with a private 2,500-square-foot apartment that can be fully-customized their own specifications. Whether it be a bedroom with giant displays to project the ocean, or a pool, theater and deluxe bathroom, anything is possible within reason. They will also have access to a hospital, several restaurants and a bakery. To ensure that everything runs smoothly, there are roadways, a wine cellar, prayer rooms, classrooms, a television station and a detention center within the complex. Interested families will first have to pay a base sum for their apartment, and then share of the costs for managing the complex (staff, maintenance, etc.).
For lovers of architecture and wine, a visit to this winery is a must. The cellars, which have now become Antinori’s headquarters, are the place where the Villa Antinori Chianti Classico, the Marchese Antinori Chianti Classico Riserva, the Peppoli Chianti Classico and the Vinsanto de Chianti Classico are produced.

A visit to Antinori’s new winery in Chianti Classico
https://www.foodandwinegazette.com/4310
But what is unique about these cellars? Firstly, the creation of these cellars was strictly tied to the production of wine but the aim was also to bring the winery closer to wine lovers by giving them the opportunity to enter into direct contact with the production philosophy of the family, offering the possibility of seeing, from the vineyard to the bottle, how a wine is born, observing – step by step – the phases of fermentation and ageing.
We visited the cellars on a beautiful November morning and were stunned by the architecture and thought that went into the creation of this project. The attention that has gone into building this new winery is incredible.

Former Nuclear Bunker Becomes Green Data Center
https://www.greenbiz.com/article/former … ata-center

Pionen – White mountain / Albert France-Lanord Architects
https://www.archdaily.com/9257/pionen-% … architects

Italy Toledo Metro Art Station
https://en.wikiarquitectura.com/buildin … t-Station/
Toledo Metro Station, opened in 2012, belongs to the underground line 1 and is located just off Via Toledo, one of the most important shopping streets in Naples, Italy. A second access to the station is projected for 2013 on the side of Quartieri Spagnoli (Spanish Town), at the intersection of Via Diaz and Via Montecalvario.

Nuno Simões completes staircase in Portugal’s historic caves
https://www.commercialinteriordesign.co … oric-caves

Wieliczka Salt Mine
https://www.visitwieliczkasaltmine.com/
Situated near the city of Krakow in southern Poland, the Wieliczka Salt Mine is a bewildering labyrinth with infinite corridors, tunnels, walkways and chambers.

Sanford Underground Research Facility helps inspire students to pursue science
https://www.mitchellrepublic.com/news/l … ue-science

IceCube neutrino detector in Antarctica spots first high-energy neutrinos emitted in our own Milky Way galaxy
https://theconversation.com/icecube-neu … axy-208743
The South Pole IceCube Neutrino Observatory – the biggest and strangest telescope in the world – has detected the first neutrino emissions from within the Milky Way, an achievement that will shape how astronomers view our galaxy.

Some Large scale underground structures on Earth
https://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/p/294745/3440566.aspx
Underground Springfield, Mo

What is the new most unique place in Missouri?
https://101theeagle.com/missouris-most- … foot-cave/
They say it's the 55,000,000 square foot man-made cave in the Kansas City, Missouri area known as Subtropolis.

video

Subtropolis Underground Kansas City, MO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pyL_4ejicM
Missouri's Most Unique Place is a 55 Million Square Foot Cave? https://101theeagle.com/missouris-most- … foot-cave/

Ford stores in the caves, from early 1970s, Ford Motor Company produced the Maverick, a compact car marketed as an affordable and efficient vehicle but demand was not as high as Ford had anticipated, and they ended up with a surplus of unsold cars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgK-nwjcLug
To deal with this surplus, Ford decided to store thousands of unsold Cars in the Subtropolis caves located in Kansas City, Missouri. Subtropolis is a man-made underground complex of limestone mines, covering over 55 million square feet, and home to many companies that use the caves for storage & other purpose.

Mine Access Tunnels
https://www.vinci-construction-projets. … -teniente/
El Teniente - the world’s largest underground copper mine - is located at an altitude of 1,500 to 1,900 metres in the Libertador General Bernardo O’Higgins region in the Andes mountain range. The project for which we were commissioned by Codelco includes the blasting of two tunnels, each 9-km long with an average cross-section of 65 m² (one to transport staff and the other to carry ore), as well as the construction of two intermediate access tunnels for a total length of 6 km. These tunnels created a new level in the El Teniente mine to extend its operation for another 50 years.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-12-10 10:29:53)

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#26 2003-01-16 13:50:23

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

#27 2003-01-16 15:57:48

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

#28 2003-01-16 16:24:41

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

#29 2003-01-16 16:30:08

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

#30 2003-01-16 16:38:53

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

#31 2003-01-16 16:44:33

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

#32 2003-01-16 16:46:16

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

#33 2003-01-16 16:47:31

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

#34 2003-01-16 16:53:11

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

#35 2003-01-16 16:55:41

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

#36 2003-01-16 17:05:13

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

#37 2003-01-16 17:08:12

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

#38 2003-01-16 22:19:34

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

#39 2003-01-17 09:55:08

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

#40 2003-03-06 19:40:18

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

#41 2003-03-07 06:56:12

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

#42 2023-12-10 10:21:19

Re: Architecture on Mars - radically different than Earth?

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