Populating Mars - ...Briskly or Gradually?

Palomar · 2003-11-28 13:41:49

*On pages 231 and 232 of _The Case for Mars_, Dr. Z. discusses populating Mars. He outlines a hab which is 8 meters in diameter w/4 decks (actually 5; the 5th for cargo to be unloaded on arrival), creating a total of 200 square meters of living area (in the 4 decks). He projects that 24 people -- complete with their housing, tools, equipment, etc. -- could sent to Mars together.

I'm trying to wrap my brain around 24 people being cooped up for 6 months together even with a bit "elbow room" available...I know it's more economical to send as many as possible in one launch, but I'm not sure it's workable human-nature wise. ::EDIT:: Just now recalled these 24 people are to also live on Mars in the same space. Hmmmmmm. Perhaps when bigger buildings to get away to and move around in (distraction) are available I'll be more optimistic.

Anway, he goes on to say that population growth on Mars could be roughly 1/5 of what population growth was like in 17th and 18th century Colonial America.

Very interesting. If the technology and funding are available, I'm inclined to prefer a scenario where 50 colonists are allowed to settle on Mars within the space of 2 years, with perhaps 20 people added every year after that. Give people time to adjust to one another, to their new environment; allow the gradual building of a society and civilization while (hopefully) avoiding a) too-slow growth where society might tend toward rigidity and becoming "set in its ways" and b) too rapid growth which could result in hostility, resentment and "societal indigestion."

Going back to Dr. Z's analogy of 17th and 18th century colonial America, that little civilization did thrive very nicely (apologies to Native Americans and African-Americans, who weren't allowed to share in the good aspects of it) when immigration was gradual and its society was allowed a bit of time and space to burp, readjust, form, and assimilate...so to speak. That society was, for its white settlers, a veritable paradise for the time.

I debated starting this thread for nearly a week, given the strong feelings some folks might have (the pro-brisk folks).

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2003-11-28 19:58:47

Yeah, it does sound kinda 'cosy', having 24 people tucked into 200 sq.m of living space!
???

The basic Mars Direct plan calls for 4 people to share 101 sq.m of floor space in the Habitation Module on the way out to Mars (see p.127 of The Case for Mars). But then, upon arriving there, they get to 'spread out' (a little bit! ) by using space in the Earth Return Vehicle and the pressurised rover, which should help. Of course, they can also gain some relief from claustrophobia by going out on the surface in their suits occasionally.
What is often overlooked, I think, is the fact that the 6 month return journey to Earth is spent in the ERV, which has only about half the area of the Hab i.e. about 50 sq.m!
This means each person gets roughly 12 sq.m to live in on the way home.
But even these cramped quarters might seem spacious to the 24 people you mention, Cindy, who have to make do with only about 8 sq.m each on the way to colonise Mars in Dr. Zubrin's plan.

Some of the problem is ameliorated, perhaps, by the fact that the 4 astronauts returning to Earth in the Mars Direct plan will be in free-fall. This means they can 'occupy' the walls and ceiling of the ERV too, giving an illusion of more space.
The 24 colonists making the one-way trip will probably be in free-fall also, since the question of bone-density and muscle-tone losses will be less problematic in individuals destined to live permanently in 0.38g.
[At this point I could drag out my soap-box and start on about how I hate the idea of free-fall for so many months, even for astronauts who've completed their mission and are returning home to all the medical assistance they could wish for. But I'll resist that temptation! ]

Some people would be entirely unable to tolerate the conditions on a Zubrin-style Mars mission. But that's not necessarily a problem because, for every person you find who can't cope with such privations, there'll be another who thrives on it. The important question, of course, as we've discussed elsewhere here, is to make sure you pick the right people before you go sending them off in little tuna cans!!
For what it's worth, I like to think I would be a good candidate for Mars Direct as far as the 'close-quarters problem' is concerned. Small spaces don't bother me at all and I can direct my mind to think of other things when I find myself in a stressful situation.
The only drawbacks to choosing me as one of the first astronauts on Mars Direct, are that I'm too old, partially colour-blind, and don't know anything useful about being an astronaut!!
Aside from those things (and probably a few others), I'm the logical choice!
:laugh:

Palomar · 2003-11-29 07:06:52

*Thanks for the reply, Shaun.

If funding will permit, pare the number of astronauts going to 16, use the additional room in the hab as storage space for materials to be used in the construction and outfitting (with sparse furniture, etc.) of a combination recreation and science building (preferably 2-room at least). Something for the astronauts to get away to, until others arrive; an alternative to being cooped up in the hab or in a rover or in a spacesuit outdoors.

If sending 24 as planned, send drops ahead of time for the construction of 2 to 3-room buildings and supplies. I just cannot see 24 people being crammed together for months on end working...eventually someone's going to be itching to write "redrum" on a wall with red lipstick...(regardless of how elite or highly trained or degreed they are; it's just not in human nature to be cooped up together like that for a long time).

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2003-11-29 07:46:58

I'm not familiar with this 'redrum' thing in red lipstick (? ).
Is it a 'girl thing'?
???

I wonder whether inflatable spacecraft/habitat extensions might be the way to go. Even if you had just a great big pressurised volume to hurl yourself around in for an hour or two every day, it should help I suppose.
If it were big enough, perhaps you could stage zero-g basketball games or something.

Just a thought.

Palomar · 2003-11-29 08:07:50

I'm not familiar with this 'redrum' thing in red lipstick (? ).
Is it a 'girl thing'?
???
I wonder whether inflatable spacecraft/habitat extensions might be the way to go. Even if you had just a great big pressurised volume to hurl yourself around in for an hour or two every day, it should help I suppose.
If it were big enough, perhaps you could stage zero-g basketball games or something.

Just a thought.

*Lol! Aw, Shaun. :;):

"Redrum" is from Stephen King's novel _The Shining_. When Jack (main character) was starting to flip out (cooped up in a big hotel for the winter on a desolate and isolated mountain) and his psychic son was seeing "redrum" (spell it backwards) written on walls in blood prior to the kid and his mother being chased around by dear old axe-wielding dad.

Those extensions would be great. Elbow room is really going to be needed, in my opinion. At least a handful of real options for "getting away" for at least an hour or so. I imagine long walks on Mars will be quite "trendy."

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2003-11-29 08:39:58

Oops!
Pardon me but I think my ignorance is showing!
:laugh:

[I don't usually read horror novels and I never saw 'The Shining' all the way through. Another yawning gap in my education, I fear! ]

Ian Flint · 2003-12-01 10:31:20

I think Zubrin's 24 person colony ship is a good idea, But --

You don't need to land the thing on Mars. You can park it in orbit and then use his NIMF vehicles to fly to orbit and ferry the colonists to the surface. The earlier explorers will have had to establish living quarters, of course.

The NIMFs could then be used to deliver fuel and exports to the colony ship in orbit. After two years it can be sent back to earth for another group of colonists.

This will make it more economical and the colonists will only be 'couped up' for six months.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-08-30 11:26:12

Perhaps worth a bump

A Mars Colony Needs Just 22 People to Survive, Simulation Suggests
https://www.extremetech.com/science/a-m … n-suggests

as for the others who might eventually come offering supernatural method and conspiracy

Carnies and Fortune tellers and psychics of Mars

'Fake psychic exposed'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AfyWc2vjbA

New Mars Forums

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#1 2003-11-28 13:41:49

Re: Populating Mars - ...Briskly or Gradually?

#2 2003-11-28 19:58:47

Re: Populating Mars - ...Briskly or Gradually?

#3 2003-11-29 07:06:52

Re: Populating Mars - ...Briskly or Gradually?

#4 2003-11-29 07:46:58

Re: Populating Mars - ...Briskly or Gradually?

#5 2003-11-29 08:07:50

Re: Populating Mars - ...Briskly or Gradually?

#6 2003-11-29 08:39:58

Re: Populating Mars - ...Briskly or Gradually?

#7 2003-12-01 10:31:20

Re: Populating Mars - ...Briskly or Gradually?

#8 2023-08-30 11:26:12

Re: Populating Mars - ...Briskly or Gradually?

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