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Tom,
Socialism doesn't work. There are some small countries that were able to benefit from a resource, use that to benefit all citizens. A small island mined guano (bird poop) and sold as fertilizer. It was treated as a national resource, all citizens received a benefit. However, the guano ran out, so the source of funds ran out. Resource curse is an ironic problem. Yes, that's a Wikipedia link. It has a long article on the issue.
The resource curse, also known as the paradox of plenty or the poverty paradox, is the phenomenon of countries with an abundance of natural resources (such as fossil fuels and certain minerals) having less economic growth, less democracy, or worse development outcomes than countries with fewer natural resources. There are many theories and much academic debate about the reasons for, and exceptions to, these adverse outcomes. Most experts believe the resource curse is not universal or inevitable, but affects certain types of countries or regions under certain conditions.
The problem is when people don't have to work for a living. In the case of Alberta, the province taxed the petroleum industry with intention that the fund would be used to develop the province. When petroleum ran out, the province would have an abundant fund to switch to something else. But politicians squandered the fund. Then oil prices dropped. Alberta ran short of traditional oil, but had plenty of tar sands. They developed a method to extract bitumen from tar sands. Extraction method used steam; tar sands must be mined, dumped into a processor to separate bitumen from sand by using steam to melt it. Bitumen is a natural form of tar. But some environmentalists didn't like open pit strip mining, and extraction left ponds of hot water from the steam, and that water contaminated with oil. The water ponds are temporary only, the oil will be extracted, but environmentalists don't like them. Bitumen can be converted to synthetic crude oil with heat and a catalyst, but that takes processing. All this means synthetic crude from tar sands costs more to produce than traditional oil. It's only profitable when oil prices are high. And environmental activists don't like the fact eat to produce steam and heat to process bitumen is usually produced by burning oil. This has reduced sales. That means reduced profit so reduced tax revenue. When I worked in Calgary Alberta in 1996, I paid a healthcare premium. In the early 2000s Alberta decided they would make healthcare free, paid by taxes from the oil industry. But a few years ago they had to re-introduce a healthcare premium, because revenue from oil was running dry.
Elon Musk is investing billions into Starship. He will have to earn billions in order to recover his investment. Let him do so.
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YouTube: Gloria Alvarez & John Stossel · Socialism Fails Every Time 6 minutes 13 seconds
Gloria Alvarez: The Power of Freedom for Latin America 37 minutes 15 seconds
Viral Influencer Gloria Alvarez Fights Socialism 28 minutes 51 seconds
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For RobertDyck re #27 and entire Socialism rant ....
This is so disappointing .... I have proposed a common stock company with the the citizens of the US as common stock holders.
You've gone off on some kind of a Socialist Rant that exists only inside your head.
Elon Musk has nothing to do with the proposal, any more than Lucky Lindbergh had anything to do with the proposal to build LaGuardia Airport in New York.
There is a need for a major space launch facility for US growth in space enterprise.
The dinky little test pad in Boca Chica is comparable to the sod fields used by early aviators, before government agencies decided to build "real" airports.
The idea of distributing earnings of a National Asset is nothing new, as the examples of Alaska and Norway, and (apparently) even a few such funds in the US show.
The size of the facility needs to be large enough to handle Starship Heavy today, and even larger ships in future.
GW Johnson spent a lot of time working on what it will take to put your Large Ship into Mars orbit.
Here is a snippet and a link, to refresh your memory.
That dinky little launch pad in Boca Chica is NOT going to launch 70,000 tons of propellant to LEO to facilitate just ONE trip of Large Ship to Mars, and that is a one way trip.
It is going to take 700 flights at 100 tons of propellant per flight to fill up the Large Ship and it's Space Tug. At one per hour that will require 30 days.
What we have at launch for Mars is the 5000 ton dead head item, plus a propulsion stage of 710 tons inert plus 22,988 tons of propellant. The space tug that pushes it off has 1243 tons of inert and is fully loaded with 40,187 tons of propellant.
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 63#p198363
it is going to cost large sums of US taxpayer funds to build and operate this facility, and they need to get their money back.
The fact that tiny amounts will go to persons who do not earn enough to pay taxes is irrelevant. Any person who is a US citizen when this system is put into effect will be part of the common stock holder community.
What I'm going for here is a concept that makes sense to the average person in the US, and which will (hopefully) enlist their support for the proposal.
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Tom, your proposed letter to senators said:
Without a mechanism in place, the wealth of space will accumulate in the hands of a small number of individuals.
We have one entrepreneur who is working to get us to Mars. I don't see a problem with that. Some of his engineering is not what I would do. But your letter specifically complains of "wealth ... will accumulate in the hands of a small number of individuals". That wealth must accumulate in the hands of those who invested money to get us to Mars. Great risk provides great reward. What Elon is doing has great risk. He almost went bankrupt a number of times. With help from NASA, he succeeded in getting SpaceX operational. Now he is investing more billions to get Starship working. He deserves great reward for that. Besides, I intend to intercept some of his wealth. The Large Ship will transport settlers to Mars. Constructing space hotels can be done more affordably with resources harvested in space. However, building the large ship, and building facilities to mine asteroids or the Moon requires the lift capacity of Starship. I want to see Starship succeed. I want to use SpaceX Starship as my ride to space. Let Elon do it his way. And let Elon reap as many rewards as he can, before I swoop in and scoop up my share. I have no intention to compete in the arena of launch services. My efforts will be entirely in space. Well, some ground-based companies to earn money first.
build houses with solar roof, helical windmills, geothermal heat pump. Houses built for northern climates such as Winnipeg and North Dakonta. Elon's "Solar City" is optimized for southern California.
recycling facilities use thermal depolymerization to break down plastic into oil & natural gas, then while the oil is still hot, convert into new plastic
aluminum oxynitride windows for store fronts. Ideal for jewellery stores and other locations that require security.
kits to convert used cars to battery-electric. With in-wheel motors, and 4-wheel drive. Had thought of hydrogen fuel cell, but that doesn't appear to be popular. Will not manufacture new cars. Target vehicles used as host for body kits.
wearable hearing aid to allow completely nerve deaf to hear, without any surgery. Direct nerve induction. No implant.
Sound like a plan?
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This post was refused by Apache yesterday. Trying again...
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tahanson43206User
Hello Again!
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Hello! It's great to see you again. How can I assist you today?User
This time I'd like to explore the topic of Sovereign Wealth funds with you. This is a complex subject, and there are many existing Sovereign Wealth funds in many countries. What I'm looking for is an example of such a fund that distributes income generated by the fund to the citizens. Possible examples might be Alaska and Norway, and there may be others. The specific application I'd like to pursue is a spacecraft launch facility to capture part of the wealth that will be generated by launches to space and safe return of vehicles filled with proceeds of space exploration. Are you aware of any Nation that distributes wealth to the entire citizenry? We (United States) have recently demonstrated the ability to deliver funds to citizens via the tax system, when COVID funds were distributed to citizens.
ChatGPTYes, you are correct. There are indeed examples of countries that distribute income generated by their sovereign wealth funds to their citizens. Two notable examples are Alaska, United States, and Norway.
Alaska Permanent Fund: Alaska has a sovereign wealth fund known as the Alaska Permanent Fund. Established in 1976, the fund was created to manage a portion of the state's oil revenues for the benefit of current and future generations of Alaskans. The fund invests in a diversified portfolio and generates income primarily from oil-related investments. The income generated by the fund is distributed annually to eligible Alaskan residents, commonly referred to as the "Permanent Fund Dividend." The dividend amount varies each year based on the fund's performance and other factors.
Government Pension Fund Global (Norway): Norway's sovereign wealth fund is called the Government Pension Fund Global. It was established in 1990 and is primarily funded by the country's oil and gas revenues. The fund aims to support the Norwegian welfare system and ensure the long-term benefit of its citizens. While the fund's primary purpose is to save and invest for future generations, it indirectly benefits current citizens through its contributions to the Norwegian government's budget. The fund's returns are used to support government spending on various public services and initiatives.
Regarding your specific application of using a spacecraft launch facility to capture wealth generated by space exploration, there isn't a direct example of a sovereign wealth fund dedicated to such a purpose at the moment. However, it's worth noting that different countries may have various mechanisms in place to distribute wealth or resources to their citizens. The method used for distributing funds, like the tax system or other means, can vary depending on the country's policies and economic structure.
If the United States were to consider implementing a similar distribution model for space-related wealth, it would require the development of appropriate legislation and mechanisms to capture and distribute the funds generated. The distribution could be designed to benefit the entire citizenry or specific groups within the population.
It's essential to consult with experts in relevant fields and conduct further research to explore the feasibility, economic implications, and legal considerations associated with implementing such a program.
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Thank you for your preliminary but (apparently) comprehensive overview of the field. Catch you next time!
ChatGPTYou're welcome! I'm glad I could provide you with a comprehensive overview. If you have any more questions in the future or need further assistance, feel free to reach out. Have a great day, and I'll be here whenever you need help. Take care!
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Send a message.Free Research Preview. ChatGPT may produce inaccurate information about people, places, or facts. ChatGPT May 3 Version
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If I get the plan that all Americans get a stock certificate of ownership into the US space program for the bucks that we pay in from taxation that is given to Nasa the space agency currently. Then we are all due a large number of back shares....
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For SpaceNut re #31...
Thanks for picking up on the concept of a distribution of income earned by a launch facility. The US space program to date has generated a great deal of information and by law, all of that gained by NASA is distributed to the US population for free.
What I am hoping for is that actual wealth of an economic nature will become available as humans venture deeper and deeper into space. The launch facility would garner only a small amount by assessing a fee for each launch, much as US airports charge a small landing fee for use of their facilities (I'm vague on that point so would appreciate someone investigating how that works).
You, as an American taxpayer, have already benefited from the US space program as a recipient of free information. What I'm going for is direct flow of income to taxpayers, instead of to the US treasury, which is where most "profits" from lease of US property tend to go.
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